33 replies to this topic

[GreyNovember]

Like, larger than a Centurion's. On both sides.

With this massive vertical pauldron that spreads outward enough to shield itself; head and backpack included, like a Banshee.

The only other IS Heavy that I know of that removes arm weapons in favor of more effective shield arms is the thunderbolt, and that worked out well for it's torso weapons; despite some of them being low mounted.

Would this be enough to take it over, say, a Grasshopper?

[Soulstrom]

It would still be a Black Knight with a shield and then a useless arm. So it might make it more survivable but won't help the firepower.

[Deathlike]

lol no

The low mounted torso weapons would be the #1 problematic issue at that point.

Then again, the heat gen quirks favor the Grasshopper more.

See, there are multiple things that would have to be addressed (unless massive quirks are applied) before you make this mech an option over the Grasshopper.

Edited by Deathlike, 01 October 2015 - 07:25 PM.

[GreyNovember]

Okay.

What if we made them huge, and RIDICULOUSLY armored.

Like, +50 Armor each arm. To the point where if you get into a twist and shoot brawl with it, you simply CAN'T hit any of the torso while it's twisted towards you.

Likewise for it advancing towards enemies. You'd have to either leg it, or try to chip away at the arm before you can actually get to the innards.

We don't give it firepower. We don't give it cooling. We give it survivability out the wazoo.

[Deathlike]

GreyNovember, on 01 October 2015 - 07:49 PM, said:

Okay.

What if we made them huge, and RIDICULOUSLY armored.

Like, +50 Armor each arm. To the point where if you get into a twist and shoot brawl with it, you simply CAN'T hit any of the torso while it's twisted towards you.

Likewise for it advancing towards enemies. You'd have to either leg it, or try to chip away at the arm before you can actually get to the innards.

We don't give it firepower. We don't give it cooling. We give it survivability out the wazoo.

It doesn't fix the brawling aspect, where anyone can shoot the CT from any side while engaged.

Larger arms doesn't fix what ails it.

[GreyNovember]

Deathlike, on 01 October 2015 - 07:52 PM, said:

It doesn't fix the brawling aspect, where anyone can shoot the CT from any side while engaged.

Larger arms doesn't fix what ails it.

I don't think we're on the same page.

I did mention, as part of the OP, that the arms would be greatly increased. To the point wherein torso shots are basically impossible if the Black Knight pilot wants to stop you from doing so.

[Monkey Lover]

Sure would look cooler

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

It would have been amazing if the shield arm wasent cosmetic, now the only thing that could save it is the hitbox pass and better quirks. If PGI doesnt improve the quirks, then Black Knight will collect dust, except maybe the 6B, which is only decent because its the only one that got 10% heat gen.

[El Bandito]

Just reduce the CT at the expense of STs and go from there. Some energy heat reduction quirks are needed--about 10%.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 October 2015 - 09:15 PM.

[GreyNovember]

I like how everyone's just glossing over the idea of arms, and then giving a completely different option.

Seriously, does nobody feel that massive, reinforced shield arms will help?

[Victorion]

El Bandito, on 01 October 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

Just reduce the CT at the expense of STs and go from there. Some energy heat reduction quirks are needed--about 10%.

No.

Heat reduction quirks are not needed.



I have absolutely no problem doing tons of damage in the BK, and this isn't even elited yet!

If you give every variant this 10% heat reduction quirk, then it just puts clear cut winners over each other in the chassis.

Right now, you have good choices.

If you want more range, you go the BK-6

If you want heat efficiency, you go BK-6b

If you want cooldown/duration you either go the BK-7 or 7L.

There is no reason to mess with that dynamic at all. People just need to learn how to play the mech.

The only thing that needs messing with on this chassis is the hit boxes, which the developers are already doing for the Oct. 6th patch.

Edited by Victorion, 01 October 2015 - 09:34 PM.

[Duke Nedo]

Problem is when people shoot back...

Edited by Duke Nedo, 01 October 2015 - 09:40 PM.

[El Bandito]

Victorion, on 01 October 2015 - 09:31 PM, said:

No.

Heat reduction quirks are not needed.


I have absolutely no problem doing tons of damage in the BK, and this isn't even elited yet!

If you give every variant this 10% heat reduction quirk, then it just puts clear cut winners over each other in the chassis.

Right now, you have good choices.

If you want more range, you go the BK-6

If you want heat efficiency, you go BK-6b

If you want cooldown/duration you either go the BK-7 or 7L.

There is no reason to mess with that dynamic at all. People just need to learn how to play the mech.

The only thing that needs messing with on this chassis is the hit boxes, which the developers are already doing for the Oct. 6th patch.

I can't take one screenshot seriously over the feedbacks from over a dozen veteran players. Could you post your stats with the BK variants, at the least? More importantly, which tier do you play in? Cause lower tiers are much more forgiving to bad mechs.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 October 2015 - 09:45 PM.

[kapusta11]

Then it would become 75 ton Banshee which is not bad I must say.

[TheArisen]

Soulstrom, on 01 October 2015 - 07:17 PM, said:

It would still be a Black Knight with a shield and then a useless arm. So it might make it more survivable but won't help the firepower.

Firepower is in no way the problem. You can easily get a 58-63 point alpha.

Problem #1 IMO is the hitboxes. It's XL friendly but every shot goes CT even when twisting. It's arms (especially the left) are terrible shields. If Pgi fixes the ct & improved the arms shield-ability. It could be quite solid. Sadly, there's no way they'd do a major model change.

[Deathlike]

GreyNovember, on 01 October 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:

I don't think we're on the same page.

I did mention, as part of the OP, that the arms would be greatly increased. To the point wherein torso shots are basically impossible if the Black Knight pilot wants to stop you from doing so.

There are other actual issues that large shield arms DO NOT SOLVE.

[Victorion]

El Bandito, on 01 October 2015 - 09:42 PM, said:

I can't take one screenshot seriously over the feedbacks from over a dozen veteran players. Could you post your stats with the BK variants, at the least? More importantly, which tier do you play in? Cause lower tiers are much more forgiving to bad mechs.

I've been posting screen shots ever since I got the BK.

My average is turning out to be about 500 damage +/- 50 damage, with 2-3 kills per match, with matches like the one I posted a screenshot of happening usually once or twice per play session.

My stat's aren't great, and aren't really indicative of how I'm actually performing now in the BK. Before I found the build I'm using currently, and had yet to elite the mech, I was doing about 300 damage per match and not making many kills, and was trying to do more side poking at range, then where it is really effective, which is medium range, aggressive skirmishing.

I'm in Tier 3. I generally seem to fight an equal amount of very good, decent, and very poor combatants.

Though to be honest, if you're going to return with a "Oh you're not doing this in Tier I? Irrelevent" then I couldn't care less about your opinion of this chassis.

Duke Nedo, on 01 October 2015 - 09:39 PM, said:

Problem is when people shoot back...

That's cute.

I had a red red-orange CT and a opened ST when this match ended. Hell, at one point I charged a Banshee who was in cover because I was the freshest person at the time.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

ADDITIONAL ARMOR CT +10
ADDITIONAL ARMOR RT +10
ADDITIONAL ARMOR LT +10
ADDITIONAL ARMOR RA +10
ADDITIONAL ARMOR LA +10
ENERGY HEAT REDUCTION +15%
ENERGY RANGE +15%
TORSO TWIST RATE +20%
ACCELERATION RATE ALL +15%
DECELERATION RATE ALL +15%

Should be base line quirks for all variants.

[Funkin Disher]

If you gave my black knight bigger better shield arms I would wade fearlessly into combat at my chosen moment, mowing down everything in my path until some smug ass gets the bright idea to get up above me or hang back and wait until i waste his mate to unload on me.

So it'd be even more swingy than it is currently. CT issues are real, low hardpoints are real. The mech is still playable, but both of these problems stifle its ability to perform.
Makes a great cavalry mech though.

[GreyNovember]

Deathlike, on 01 October 2015 - 10:07 PM, said:

There are other actual issues that large shield arms DO NOT SOLVE.

Yes. I'm aware. It apparently runs way too hot, has far too short engagement range, low hardpoints, and a vulnerable CT from all sides. Or so people say.

So you're saying, at this point, shield arms described as such would no absolutely nothing to alleviate any such issues, and basically make it a heavier grasshopper without JJs?