37 replies to this topic

[Moira]

So where was I ummm oh yeah 3 or less missile slots.

3x LRM10 and 3x LRM5 are viable and their variations and just maybe 3x LRM15 is you have quirks and modules to keep their RoF high enough... I wouldnt suggest it. So 3 or less gets the official use SRM's instead stamp from me.

Lets get something else out of the way. This is just view of the matter.

* When to use Artemis with LRM's !
- I found it usefull only on few cases when you are running out of slots (internal capasity) and have weight to spare. Artemis does indeed grant alot more killing power for single/dual launchers, but when you go "lurming" just dont use Artemis.. effects arent that much of big deal.

* Highest possible damage "lurmer" setup ?
- 6x LRM5 with CD module and mech CD quirk with 3-4 MPL's (I tend to use 3+TAG), Target Decay is a must and Radar Deprivation or Seismic Sensor, UAV and Airstrike are needed too.. And remember to Chain fire those LRM's all the time.

....to be continued Real Life in coming to harrass me atm

[Rhent]

I'm running a STK-3H 2 LRM-A-20 + 2 LPL
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c525f64ef80fe4d

I easily break 500 a match and I've pulled over 1,300 in the build using LRM 20's. You have to pick your targets, Assaults and Heavies are your priority when using LRM20's. The heat efficiency and the damage they bring destroys Heavies and Assaults very quickly.

[Tahribator]

Thanks for the video. The LRM20 has always been stupidly underpowered for its tonnage. You'd expect a launcher weighing 10 tons to be a scary weapon, but the ridiculous spread makes it mostly a harmless missile shower. As you demonstrated a big number of smaller launchers is the only way to be effective as an LRM boat.

[Tesunie]

Tahribator, on 04 December 2015 - 03:30 AM, said:

Thanks for the video. The LRM20 has always been stupidly underpowered for its tonnage. You'd expect a launcher weighing 10 tons to be a scary weapon, but the ridiculous spread makes it mostly a harmless missile shower. As you demonstrated a big number of smaller launchers is the only way to be effective as an LRM boat.

Small reminder that this thread/video was created before the new patch which altered the spread on LRMs10-20.

Now though, instead of questioning spread for the larger launchers, I'd be considering reload speeds, as they increased the cooldown times as they decreased the spread of the larger launchers.

[Rhent]

Tesunie, on 04 December 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

Small reminder that this thread/video was created before the new patch which altered the spread on LRMs10-20.

Now though, instead of questioning spread for the larger launchers, I'd be considering reload speeds, as they increased the cooldown times as they decreased the spread of the larger launchers.

The study if flawed because its using training grounds. The rules in training grounds is old and outdated most of the time. If you go to training ground TAG does not get highlighted, so then the next question is does artemis work? Lastly, lets assume both of those systems actually work, the guide didn't go against a mech using AMS. As LRM's get more used in the game, AMS will go up. So shooting more missiles will cut through the AMS as well.

[Tesunie]

Rhent, on 06 December 2015 - 10:53 PM, said:

The study if flawed because its using training grounds. The rules in training grounds is old and outdated most of the time. If you go to training ground TAG does not get highlighted, so then the next question is does artemis work? Lastly, lets assume both of those systems actually work, the guide didn't go against a mech using AMS. As LRM's get more used in the game, AMS will go up. So shooting more missiles will cut through the AMS as well.

Wasn't the guide (I didn't watch the video) cover the effects of spread depending upon launcher size, with and without Artemis? Unto which, even with the current patch, it's still true that LRM5s have less spread than their larger counterparts, which leads to "more damage where you want it" when it hits. LRM5s also have better reload times.

However, my question is how valid is this guide still considering that LRM10, 15 and 20s all got a spread reduction, but also a cooldown increase. Are LRM5s still landing more damage in the center of target, or might an LRM20 now be doing equal or more damage considering the reduction to it's spread characteristic?


As far as AMS, from my experience, it can shoot down an LRM10 launcher depending upon it's position in relation to the LRMs. That means that an LRM15 or 20 launcher should be able to punch through, especially if one has more than one of said launcher. However, LRM5s (when brought en mass) can often times overwhelm AMS systems, as it usually takes AMS a while to lock on and start to shoot down the next volley. Thus, two LRM5s rapidly chain fired can have every other shot pass through a single AMS system, sometimes even a group of AMS (situation depending).


As a final note about Testing Grounds (as far as I last knew and I admit I could be wrong here), everything works in Testing as it does in the real game now. Skills are now active. TAG takes effects. Artemis works. Etc. But yeah, at one time Testing Grounds where not as reliable as they are now.

[Rhent]

Tesunie, on 06 December 2015 - 11:49 PM, said:

Wasn't the guide (I didn't watch the video) cover the effects of spread depending upon launcher size, with and without Artemis? Unto which, even with the current patch, it's still true that LRM5s have less spread than their larger counterparts, which leads to "more damage where you want it" when it hits. LRM5s also have better reload times.

However, my question is how valid is this guide still considering that LRM10, 15 and 20s all got a spread reduction, but also a cooldown increase. Are LRM5s still landing more damage in the center of target, or might an LRM20 now be doing equal or more damage considering the reduction to it's spread characteristic?


As far as AMS, from my experience, it can shoot down an LRM10 launcher depending upon it's position in relation to the LRMs. That means that an LRM15 or 20 launcher should be able to punch through, especially if one has more than one of said launcher. However, LRM5s (when brought en mass) can often times overwhelm AMS systems, as it usually takes AMS a while to lock on and start to shoot down the next volley. Thus, two LRM5s rapidly chain fired can have every other shot pass through a single AMS system, sometimes even a group of AMS (situation depending).


As a final note about Testing Grounds (as far as I last knew and I admit I could be wrong here), everything works in Testing as it does in the real game now. Skills are now active. TAG takes effects. Artemis works. Etc. But yeah, at one time Testing Grounds where not as reliable as they are now.

1 AMS = 5 LRM's removed from play. A LRM 5 boat trying to chain fire can't avoid that and in fact they will be doing less damage in the long run. They are better off firing all 4 LRM5's to get 15 LRM's in rather than chain fire and get 10 LRM's in. Chain firing gives AMS more chances to shoot down incoming LRM's.

As more players start to pick up on the benefits of LRM's, you'll see more AMS. AND more LRM use as well. If your team mates are using LRM's on the same target, then the AMS isn't as much of an issue and you can do chain fire and get more of your rounds in. I've seen mech murder ball AMS bubles that completely removed 60 LRM's in the past. The missiles just evaporated.

Edited by Rhent, 07 December 2015 - 12:37 AM.

[Tesunie]

Rhent, on 07 December 2015 - 12:14 AM, said:

1 AMS = 5 LRM's removed from play. A LRM 5 boat trying to chain fire can't avoid that and in fact they will be doing less damage in the long run. They are better off firing all 4 LRM5's to get 15 LRM's in rather than chain fire and get 10 LRM's in. Chain firing gives AMS more chances to shoot down incoming LRM's.

As more players start to pick up on the benefits of LRM's, you'll see more AMS. AND more LRM use as well. If your team mates are using LRM's, then the AMS isn't as much of an issue and you can do chain fire and get more of your rounds in.

Depends upon how you chain fire. If you chain fire as in "set to chain fire and press and hold the button", then yes. You will trickle feed your ammo into their AMS systems. However, if you "set to chain fire mode, then rapidly press the fire button" you can actually shoot manually faster than the auto chain fire, which means that AMS is still tracking and shooting your first volley of LRMs (even if they are destroyed) as your second volley hit their target completely unaffected. This can work even against multiple AMS systems (situation depending), as they are tracking and shooting the first volley and can't change volley targets, allowing the second (and sometimes third volleys) to go into their target at full strength (compared to shooting them in one volley, which lets each AMS system target, and destory, each LRM5 volley separately). It's a nitch, though group firing massed LRMs at an AMS protected target/team is still normally easier and more efficient for it's effort.

I use this same shooting technique for some of my hotter laser based mechs as well, such as my Hunchback 4J or when I ran the stock Nova Prime. I'd set my lasers to chain fire, then rapidly press the fire button until I shot my desired number of lasers for my current heat level.

Of course, this is presuming that they (PGI) have not done any drastic changes to AMS from when last I knew.


And as far as AMS efficiency, it depends upon the position of the AMS relative to the LRMs and their intended targets, If the AMS mech is the target, than AMS is actually only moderately effective, shooting down basically 5 LRMs on average. If, however, they are not the target is when AMS actually gets stronger (or weaker). If the LRMs crosses over the AMS equipped mech before getting to their target, the AMS mech can actually shoot down up to 10, if not even 15 LRMs out of a flight (I've seen it happen personally). This is just one AMS system. On the flip side, if they are behind the target of the LRMs, and the missile barely are within the AMS sphere of protection, it can be nearly ineffective and shoot down maybe a single LRM.

Positioning is a very important factor for LRMs, and a lot of their counters (AMS in particular). Many people decry AMS as useless because "it doesn't shoot down enough from an LRM boat". However, teamed up together with your teammates, or good positioning relative to an LRM mech, it can cut down a lot of potential damage, particularly if you aren't the missile's main target... (Though ECM is still considered the better LRM defensive equipment. Lighter, does more, does it better, and it's ammo can't explode.)



Though I will say I love my LRMs, I will call out anyone who calls them useless, and I will call out anyone who calls them skill-less, I wouldn't say that LRMs are exactly a competitive player's weapon. They aren't the best in the game, not by any means. Their strengths are utility, indirect support and sandpapering armor to open any weaknesses for others to exploit with accuracy, or to remove components via massed damage. Their weaknesses are situational, counted by ECM, soft countered by AMS, slow and able to be dodged, provides a warning when they are incoming, dependent upon locks (see ECM weakness), a lot of maps have terrain that does not favor them (and those maps that don't keep getting altered to have more LRM blocking terrain), spread damage, likely to not even hit (target/terrain/lock depending), 180m weakness (if not complete inability to deal damage)...

Their weaknesses are many, but they do have their strengths. They are the only weapon that can fire indirectly, and one of two weapons that can home into a target (which typically requires a different set of skills). It's a utility weapon, which gives it a lot of flexibility and a lot of roles, some even beyond just damage (such as area denial and scare tactics, or to even be used as a lure to trap enemies into thinking there is an easy target if they can get close enough). However, many of these strength's leaves it to a bit of unpredictable results in the game. Some times they are great, other times nearly useless. It's also less effective against more skilled players who know how to break locks and know how to move in ways to reduce if not prevent damage. It's more punishing to less skilled players (and I mean no insult to them), who don't tend to break locks, not use terrain, and don't understand the tricks of avoiding LRMs (run perpendicular to their flight path, and many will still eat the dirt, as well as jumping up). Other factors like if they enemy have lots of ECM or not also can determine if LRMs will work, or be a nearly complete waste of time. Even if your allies press R (or are willing to press R) to gain locks to help spot for you can make a huge difference (and this is not saying that LRM mechs should only fire indirectly, but it does help if they can support indirectly, at least until they can get direct locks themselves).


LRMs are a complex weapon system.

(Sorry if I rambled. It's 4am where I live, and way past my bed time!)

[Moira]

Hello there fellow Lurmer Tesunie and obviously you like to write long posts too =)

As Clanner and only clanner (yeah I sold IS mechs away soon after latest patch) I have had a blast to configure my mechs for optimal performance for complete lurming and semi lurming. Tuka2 CW event was real good testing grounds and didnt take long to understand what works and what really doesnt.

I basicly run 3 types of setups: 6 slot slurm - 2x 10LRM + 4x 5LRM, 4 slot 4x 10LRM and 3 slot 2x 10LRM + 1x 5LRM. These are on heavies MadDog and TBR for Quirks and or good placement of lasers like in TBR's shoulder. Ofcourse I have the needed modules and weapon modules for fun runs.

After the Tuka2 event I got around to play with Old unit mates and they where are into carrying NARC's in their lights and brawlers so dear god how much that actually changes/helps a lurmer from mid to backrow. But after few games we got into talking about how to be even more effective and I changed into 3x ALRM10 or 2x ALRM20 and then the oddball effects or "shining" started. General damage tends to lean downwards on numbers, but deaths started to scale rapidly upwards from 1-3 kills per map it started to be moreless 2-5 kills and sometimes even 7. Have you ever felt need to ALRM to get kills ?

Into your lovely long post that I will not start to pick apart (if there ever was reason) I want to highlight some points.

1) Always keep LRM's on chainfire and tap that key fast as hell to launch LRM's because it truely shoots em faster when you have enough tubes to fire from. This has just one flaw in it. If you do it for longer time with 6 missile slot mech you start gather alot of heat compared to hold down chainfire button.

2) As you mentioned positioning is everything and I agree to that. And I just wanted to add that knowing the maps areas where enemy can hide behind walls or buildings is key... to move around em or just simply use minimal LRM fire to keep em there. This leads to my second most loved module Seismic Sensor since more than often I find myself little off from my team than I wanted and Get swarmed by lights ... SO this module is life safer for lurmer for small advanced warning.

3) Communication. I just love ppls that use ingame coms to call out targets that are on open ground or ask LRM support for their target X. This goes both ways and Lumer I tend to remind ppls ingame that I use missiles and ask for target locks and I do try to remember that they can call for LRM support of they need it.

4) Never Ever forget where your assaults are because those are the most likely persons to need LRM support, so keep checking that map and press "i" to see where they are in general.

So are LRM's complicated ? Hell yeah they are and with good teamwork and communications couple lurmers can totally turn the match around even if its pug vs premade.

[CuriousCabbitBlue]

I have a lrm 70 maddog x3

2- 15s

4- 10s

[Robot Kenshiro]

BlackhawkSC. <<this guy. Always has good videos. *thumbs up*

[Sonny Black]

Nov 22, 2015

In this tutorial we will go over how to play the role of LRM Carrier. Starting with some theory about the play style, how to choose a mech, build it in the mechlab and end off with some example game play.

Not sure I agree with everything he says...still well worth the time spent.

[Tesunie]

Moira, on 09 December 2015 - 05:53 AM, said:

Hello there fellow Lurmer Tesunie and obviously you like to write long posts too =)


Have you ever felt need to ALRM to get kills ?



Into your lovely long post that I will not start to pick apart (if there ever was reason) I want to highlight some points.

1) Always keep LRM's on chainfire and tap that key fast as hell to launch LRM's because it truely shoots em faster when you have enough tubes to fire from. This has just one flaw in it. If you do it for longer time with 6 missile slot mech you start gather alot of heat compared to hold down chainfire button.

2) As you mentioned positioning is everything and I agree to that. And I just wanted to add that knowing the maps areas where enemy can hide behind walls or buildings is key... to move around em or just simply use minimal LRM fire to keep em there. This leads to my second most loved module Seismic Sensor since more than often I find myself little off from my team than I wanted and Get swarmed by lights ... SO this module is life safer for lurmer for small advanced warning.

3) Communication. I just love ppls that use ingame coms to call out targets that are on open ground or ask LRM support for their target X. This goes both ways and Lumer I tend to remind ppls ingame that I use missiles and ask for target locks and I do try to remember that they can call for LRM support of they need it.

4) Never Ever forget where your assaults are because those are the most likely persons to need LRM support, so keep checking that map and press "i" to see where they are in general.

So are LRM's complicated ? Hell yeah they are and with good teamwork and communications couple lurmers can totally turn the match around even if its pug vs premade.

Yes. I do tend to write long posts. I sometimes (especially when tired) even ramble on a bit more than intended...


I actually use Artemis not to get kills or even for the tighter spreads on missiles. Most times when I take Artemis, it's for faster lock on speeds (particularly for SSRMs if I've got a mixed LRM/SSRM build), and sometimes for the enhanced tracking. Artemis certainly has it's uses, and can be wroth it's weight. But I find that it isn't a must have for LRMs, depending upon how it's used of course.


1. True. Shooting a lot of LRMs (of note 5s) faster than chain fire normally shoots by default can activate ghost heat. I often times have chain fire on not to actually chain my fire, but because I only have so many weapon groups I can use, and I use chain fire to conserve ammo on risky shots. This way, if they are close/easy to hit I mash the button quickly to fire "all da missiles". If they are far away/not likely to get hit, then I will fire only one launcher and see what happens.

2. Agreed. I find Advanced Target Decay is far more valuable for LRMs, but Seismic is a good module for detection and protection. For me personally, I'm normally on the front lines with my LRMs (it doesn't always pay off, but I've gotten an average of good results) and am normally surrounded by teammates. (I do a lot of work with my secondary weapons. I never boat LRMs, but that is my preference.)

3. Many of my LRM guides I've written stress communication. If you need help, call out your grid location and say "help". Goes not only for LRM users, but can be especially important for them, considering they often reside in the backs of teams...

4. Assaults are more likely it seems to get steady locks. I'm always trying to observe where everyone on my team is going, and gauge how well their locks probably are from where they are. (You'll also often find me near the assaults protecting them, depending upon my mech's role of course.)


LRMs are far from the "no skill" weapons some players have tried to proclaim. They are easy to use, hard to master.

[_____]

Robot Kenshiro, on 09 December 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

BlackhawkSC. <<this guy. Always has good videos. *thumbs up*

Thanks Robot

1st post updated with new test results.

[ExoForce]

Some time ago, chainfire was stripping components easily. Now, only heavy alpha can do the work.
Somebody should check the weapons.xml. With hex-editor.

[1Grimbane]

yeah just got 3 kills with the hbk-4j.. 2xlrm10's good fun ran out of ammo when they had about 5 mechs left, only got like 370 something damage but still very fun and yeah i got vultures with 6 x lrms good fun there all lrm10's high heat but steady damage also run one wit 6 srm6's... that thing packs a wallop let me tell ya. i've also tried 6 streak srm2's just for fun and it sucks lol

Edited by 1Grimbane, 29 December 2015 - 12:46 AM.

[Zookeeper Dan]

Since the C-LRM15 and the C-ALRM10 weigh the same I was wondering if my Hunchback IIC-B would be better with 4 LRM15's or 4 ALRM10's.

Did a quick test in the training grounds against an Atlas at 325 meters.
One LRM15 - TTK 3:22
One ALRM10 - TTK 2:42

With the TTK for the ALRM10 being 40 seconds faster I'm going to make the upgrade. And if Artemis doesn't work in the training grounds the ALRM10 is even more worthwhile.

[Tesunie]

Danth Reduviid, on 08 January 2016 - 09:08 AM, said:

Since the C-LRM15 and the C-ALRM10 weigh the same I was wondering if my Hunchback IIC-B would be better with 4 LRM15's or 4 ALRM10's.

Did a quick test in the training grounds against an Atlas at 325 meters.
One LRM15 - TTK 3:22
One ALRM10 - TTK 2:42

With the TTK for the ALRM10 being 40 seconds faster I'm going to make the upgrade. And if Artemis doesn't work in the training grounds the ALRM10 is even more worthwhile.

ALRM10s are probably better. The Artemis reduces spread and increases tracking strength when in line of sight, and always reduces your missile lock on speeds. This lets you get locks on faster, even against ECM targets. If you can add in a TAG, that also cuts through ECM (does not disable it though) and also tightens spread, increases tracking strength and speeds up missile locks as well.

LRM15s would be good for a mech being designed to use them as a secondary weapon with only a few missile hardpoints, and would be good for indirect fire mostly. I tend to sneak on larger LRM launchers on assaults as a secondary weapon, so that I can shoot something at the enemy indirectly while I wade into direct line of sight for my other weapons.