67 replies to this topic

[Triordinant]

Like so many have said in this thread, the first and foremost issue is BALANCE.

PGI already shot down the idea of going with Lore and balancing Clan technological superiority with IS numerical superiority (aka 10 vs 12 or some other ratio), so that's out. The other Lore-based possibility is the Clan warrior code, which includes things like Zellbrigen. We obviously can't stop Clan players from focusing fire but there are a couple of things that work: 1) no arty/airstrike consumables for Clans and 2) no indirect fire for Clan LRMs. It may not help much but it's quick and easy to implement.

Edited by Triordinant, 05 October 2015 - 04:10 PM.

[Troutmonkey]

1. Improve performance (game still runs poorly on 4790k and GTX 980)
2. Fix bugs
3. Fix whatever bugs fixing the bugs the first time created
4. Balance weapons and mechs.
5. Fix the rest of the bugs

[ZenFool]

When I look at it from the standpoint of a new player a couple of things jump out at me.

1. There are many different weapon choices and I want to try them all!!!! Of course, right now you only have two real choices, ppfld or laze. Which means that the new player gets slaughtered a lot. Not a whole lot of fun.

2. There are many different mechs! See above... A few mechs in each weight class simply outperform everything else. A new player could drop a few weeks worth of play in cbills to buy that cool sounding trio of Kintaro/Shadowcat/Locusts/Quickdraw/Awesome/Executioner mechs only to find that due to odd hardpoints, placement, or fixed equipment their mech is crud. Again, slaughter, no fun. We know, from long experience, that this might change next week, but they don't nor will they stick around that long.

3. CW... It is literally the first thing my friends ask about when I introduce them to the game. So, I have to tell them to avoid it while they are still running trials. Then I have to tell them that the map is pointless fluff. Then I have to tell them to try to join some third party group or TS to have any chance. Instead they hit big flashy button, join a game, get slaughtered, no fun.

4. So, any time a new player tries something different they get killed. They could spend hours watching vid and join a unit, but most don't want to invest that kind of time if they aren't having fun. What do they do? They ask me to play with them and show them the ropes. That's when I have to tell them that us joining the group Q is a big bad no no. They only thought they were getting slaughtered before...

In the end, its hard to talk up a game that has such huge balance issues while offering so little in the way of story and immersion. The only thing that makes this franchise stand out from CoD/etc. is the rich world in which it is set. CW was supposed to immerse us in this world, but it became Skirmish with Respawn. You might pull a few people in with a simple ready button, but they won't stay. They'll play for a week or so, see the weird issues, and move on.

PGI has the data, so you'd like to think they know what holds player attention or gets people to spend money, but I think they've relied too much on metrics and not enough on basic gameplay design. They might pull in a steady income, but I think they would have gotten that regardless. There are many of us who are real fans of the franchise and would pay them for any product they put out, regardless of quality. We grumble, we complain, but we still pay.

I don't think the Steam population will be so forgiving.

[Khobai]

Quote

I don't think the Steam population will be so forgiving.

Nope. They wont be. Even if PGI gets the balancing done properly and in time. After watching warframe go through something similar I can tell you the steam population is going to slam MWO for having a really crappy skill system.

Edited by Khobai, 05 October 2015 - 10:44 PM.

[Palor]

Slipping in some Achieves that give premium time could go a long way to keeping new players. Maybe make them match based, play 100 matches get a few days premium time.

[NephyrisX]

Paigan, on 04 October 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

And maybe the cockpits shouldn't look like 1950ies bomber cockpits (which sadly their artist used for inspiration).
Especially not the high-tech clan cockpits.
It's so ridiculous...

Except Clan cockpits have always been spartan, even more so than IS ones.

Hell, IS cockpits are arguably more advanced since they add on accessories like actual toilets. In MWO, this is shown clearly as IS cockpits have more blinky lights, while Clan cockpits are really bare and utilitarian.

Edited by NephyrisX, 05 October 2015 - 11:05 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

NephyrisX, on 05 October 2015 - 10:42 PM, said:

Except Clan cockpits have always been spartan, even more so than IS ones.

Hell, IS cockpits are arguably more advanced since they add on accessories like actual toilets. In MWO, this is shown clearly as IS cockpits have more blinks lights, while Clan cockpits are really bare and utilitarian.

That's because, contrary to what people on the forums might say, the Clanners are the true dirty space poors. I mean, they developed on barren worlds, of course they invaded! They needed the oil wanted IS riches!

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 05 October 2015 - 10:46 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

And maybe the cockpits shouldn't look like 1950ies bomber cockpits (which sadly their artist used for inspiration).
Especially not the high-tech clan cockpits.
It's so ridiculous...

eh arguably thats part of the appeal of the battletech universe

it has a weird retro thing going because when the game first came out in the 80s all the technology was theoretical and cutting edge. but now we have technology today that in many ways surpasses whats in battletech.

so its kindve like an alternate timeline type thing where technology developed along a different path. battlemechs are almost like 1950s fighters, they fire weapons using gunsights, lol. And weapon technology in battletech seriously lags behind armor technology which is the exact opposite of real life.

Edited by Khobai, 05 October 2015 - 10:55 PM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

3025 random stock mech mode for a succession wars era CW

[Johnny Z]

ZenFool, on 05 October 2015 - 10:23 PM, said:

When I look at it from the standpoint of a new player a couple of things jump out at me.

1. There are many different weapon choices and I want to try them all!!!! Of course, right now you only have two real choices, ppfld or laze. Which means that the new player gets slaughtered a lot. Not a whole lot of fun.

2. There are many different mechs! See above... A few mechs in each weight class simply outperform everything else. A new player could drop a few weeks worth of play in cbills to buy that cool sounding trio of Kintaro/Shadowcat/Locusts/Quickdraw/Awesome/Executioner mechs only to find that due to odd hardpoints, placement, or fixed equipment their mech is crud. Again, slaughter, no fun. We know, from long experience, that this might change next week, but they don't nor will they stick around that long.

3. CW... It is literally the first thing my friends ask about when I introduce them to the game. So, I have to tell them to avoid it while they are still running trials. Then I have to tell them that the map is pointless fluff. Then I have to tell them to try to join some third party group or TS to have any chance. Instead they hit big flashy button, join a game, get slaughtered, no fun.

4. So, any time a new player tries something different they get killed. They could spend hours watching vid and join a unit, but most don't want to invest that kind of time if they aren't having fun. What do they do? They ask me to play with them and show them the ropes. That's when I have to tell them that us joining the group Q is a big bad no no. They only thought they were getting slaughtered before...

In the end, its hard to talk up a game that has such huge balance issues while offering so little in the way of story and immersion. The only thing that makes this franchise stand out from CoD/etc. is the rich world in which it is set. CW was supposed to immerse us in this world, but it became Skirmish with Respawn. You might pull a few people in with a simple ready button, but they won't stay. They'll play for a week or so, see the weird issues, and move on.

PGI has the data, so you'd like to think they know what holds player attention or gets people to spend money, but I think they've relied too much on metrics and not enough on basic gameplay design. They might pull in a steady income, but I think they would have gotten that regardless. There are many of us who are real fans of the franchise and would pay them for any product they put out, regardless of quality. We grumble, we complain, but we still pay.

I don't think the Steam population will be so forgiving.

Have you seen the Steam main page lately? Its a wall of trash lol. It cant be a secret they are making 100's of games with no content that players are almost forced to buy for entertainment. The alternatives are another subject entirely.

How anyone can think Steam players are unforgiving with that situation going on for years is beyond me.

If it wasnt for Fallout 4 coming out it would be like a brick wall. The gaming industry is a literally a brick wall these days.

Online games? A clone fest. Copy past for the most part.

Games selling their whares but in eternal development and never finished? Countless...

This situation is literally one for the history books and Im not kidding.

Anyway, thats the market these days. What this game needs before Steam release or what it needs to be half done are two entirely different discussions.

Either way Mechwarrior is entertaining enough to start. Which brings me to my point. As long as the alternatives are not so good its fine.... Players will keep playing hoping for great updates and expansions. Soon as something better comes along then poof everyone is gone. Luckily that doesnt look probable at the moment.

Even Fallout 4 which I have been saying will be great could be garbage. Others have said to me that they are holding off getting it or getting to excited because so many games have been a let down. Me? I am an optimist against all odds and prefer to think things are going to be good unless otherwise proven.

Back to Mechwarrior Online. The next few months will be very interesting most likely. If not, oh well.

I should add. Even Fallout 4, which is as solid as it gets these days, is being sold for pre order on the Steam main page. Very likely its because Steam over all income is in free fall and they need a title that will bring in money. Or the rest of the main page is garbage to hike Fallout 4 sales? Or a little of both? Fallout 4 being for preorder rather than actual sale being the key here.

Edited by Johnny Z, 06 October 2015 - 03:20 AM.

[Madcap72]

LOL I always get a laugh out of everyone thinking that the game needs to be nerf padded and dumbed down and made easier for the mythical "new player" to assuage whatever pains and aches they encounter.


That's total horse puckey. No good, successful game has EVER done that which I can recall.
Look at the MW and BF titles. I don't recall ever hopping online and


The game should be challenging, it should make people want to do better. Treating people new to the game as if they are toddlers who can barely walk trying to ease them in is silly. People are smart, they'll figure it out. If they DON'T, they probably won't no matter how soft the game is made, so why bother?

[Thorqemada]

Solo-Q must be balanced and fun having the "Great Rebalance" successful happened.
Group-Q should be 2 to 4 mans.
CW-Q should be the "Big-QQ".

Edited by Thorqemada, 06 October 2015 - 08:50 AM.

[anof]

I think there needs to be a tutorial on mech building. I think the amount of options could overwhelm a new play with no Battletech experience. Even just selecting a new mech could be difficult. I read the forums a lot to find most of the new player guides. A lot of people don't read forums.

I also think there should be a way to test your loadout against bots that shoot back. The new Academy is a great first step but it needs to be expanded.

[Johnny Z]

anof, on 06 October 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

I think there needs to be a tutorial on mech building. I think the amount of options could overwhelm a new play with no Battletech experience. Even just selecting a new mech could be difficult. I read the forums a lot to find most of the new player guides. A lot of people don't read forums.

I also think there should be a way to test your loadout against bots that shoot back. The new Academy is a great first step but it needs to be expanded.

Totally disgree. Some games have hurdles way, way, way above Mechwarrior online has for mech customization. I say hurdles, not depth or quality. Mechwarrior Online is unmatched in meaningfull customization.

Its not simple for sure but tooltips is enough. One of the beauties of a good tutorial is brevity.(spelled right?) The current tutorial is fine and great if it continues to be improved.

Edited by Johnny Z, 06 October 2015 - 09:52 AM.

[ZenFool]

Madcap72, on 06 October 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

LOL I always get a laugh out of everyone thinking that the game needs to be nerf padded and dumbed down and made easier for the mythical "new player" to assuage whatever pains and aches they encounter.


That's total horse puckey. No good, successful game has EVER done that which I can recall.
Look at the MW and BF titles. I don't recall ever hopping online and


The game should be challenging, it should make people want to do better. Treating people new to the game as if they are toddlers who can barely walk trying to ease them in is silly. People are smart, they'll figure it out. If they DON'T, they probably won't no matter how soft the game is made, so why bother?

Its not about dumbing it down, its about creating a fun experience right out of the gate. People who have fun spend time and money. The biggest pull for the game should be story and customization, but right now story is non existent and customization punishes the new player.

The game has the lab which is awesome, but when most of those mechs and weapons are obsolete the lab doesn't mean much. As far as actual game play, you have a button to hit for a fight.

New players see a barebones game and play it like they do so many other barebones games on steam. One day, a week, then they are on to the next one if they don't have fun. Without spending cash...

No new income from an expanded player base means no new meaningful content.

[Trystan Thorne]

I agree with a lot people said here.

• balance is important, please fix it
  
• increase C-Bill income (most of us are so rich, we really don't notice how bad it is)
  
• trial/stock Mech mode
  
• a Co-Op mode for people trying to avoid the PvP for a while and improving skills

[Madcap72]

ZenFool, on 06 October 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

Its not about dumbing it down, its about creating a fun experience right out of the gate. People who have fun spend time and money. The biggest pull for the game should be story and customization, but right now story is non existent and customization punishes the new player.

The game has the lab which is awesome, but when most of those mechs and weapons are obsolete the lab doesn't mean much. As far as actual game play, you have a button to hit for a fight.

New players see a barebones game and play it like they do so many other barebones games on steam. One day, a week, then they are on to the next one if they don't have fun. Without spending cash...

No new income from an expanded player base means no new meaningful content.

I guess you don't remember the days of QuakeTF/ MegaTF, Tribes, HL/ TFC, MechW 3/4 and all the other great online PvP games that make their success on just being awesome and challenging.

" The biggest pull for the game should be story and customization, but right now story is non existent and customization punishes the new player."

Look at EVE Online. What story? ABSURD learning curve... Lots of customization, of which poor choices are instant death.

One of the most popular long running titles... Games don't have to be fun or easy for new players. They have to play to their market.

People who have fun spend time and money? I agree, but what is fun? That is totally subjective. The people I see have the most fun with the game are the ones that treat it exactly like it is, a PVP team deathmatch who also happen to be BT/ MW fans. Assuming that all new players are coming in blind to a MW title and need their hands held to me is A. showing a lack of respect for gamers, and 2. the MW title itself is like a flame for moths and most people who get into this game are fans.

The people I see who don't have fun are the ones who think it should be a 100% port of BT TT and get all mad when people don't treat it as such. Hardly the profile of a new player who doesn't know anything about the BT universe.

Even when the game was straight up broken and not working people were still spending money on it, the argument that "No new income from an expanded player base means no new meaningful content." rings completely hollow after the announcement they've committed to the unseen.

"One day, a week, then they are on to the next one if they don't have fun. Without spending cash..."

So what? it's a F2P game. The ENTIRE business model is structured on a small percentage funding the whole. The ones that DO have fun, just like ALL of us existing players will spend the money. Hell, even with the game NOT being fun we all spend it anyways so that is another way that argument falls apart.

[ZenFool]

I don't think balancing mechs and weapons is dumbing anything down or handholding... You were the only one who mentioned dumbing anything down.

I don't think making the game stand out vs. other fps shooters is a bad thing. This game will NEVER compete vs. the big name fps, but I do think it could find a healthy niche that allows for more content than a new mech every once in a while if they put more effort into actually fleshing out the game.

You can bash everyone who offers solutions if you'd like, but I don't see how that helps.

[Dirus Nigh]

They need to have a writer bring in the background (lore) of the Battletech setting into the game. Mechs need a history tab that has a few paragraphs about the mech design. Just like in the old TROs. Factions need to have their own page that talks about the successor state or clan. A short history of the faction, who the leaders are, prominent military units, provinces, and personalities.

Is short players need an in game reason why they are doing any thing in the game.

[Tarogato]

> WHAT ELSE DOES PGI NEED BEFORE STEAM RELEASE?

A staff member that actually understands how to balance a game.