37 replies to this topic

[TheArisen]

The pinpoint skill is straight up useless. It obviously needs to be replaced. So far, Pgi hasn't put forth any kind of replacement ideas. Most player ideas have been about the whole skilltree. Perhaps it'd be easier to just replace Pinpoint.

I'd like to discuss ideas to replace just Pinpoint here.

My idea is to replace it with a hill climbing skill. Surely an experienced pilot could climb hills better than a trainee. It'd also help us not get stuck on rocks, roots, etc.

If you like my idea, great. If not, please share an alternative idea.

Edited by TheArisen, 04 October 2015 - 10:53 AM.

[Whatzituyah]

Heres the problem with pinpoint its instantaneous already. I think it shouldnt be instantaneous but I heard they did that and their were problems with it. I would also suggest it be like a cone of fire but like people said they would say "Why can't I hit where I am pointing?" also they say it counts as "RNG" so their goes that idea theirs not really a good solution at all.

[Deathlike]

Like... a long time ago... Paul said something along the lines that it would be replaced by buff that would increase health on equipment (from the usual/standard 10 health to... something more than that).

Unfortunately, this never came to fruition.

That is all I know.

Source:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3766729

Edit:
lol

We've missed its anniversary!

Edited by Deathlike, 04 October 2015 - 12:30 AM.

[Paigan]

TheArisen, on 04 October 2015 - 12:21 AM, said:

Pinpoint is straight up useless. It obviously needs to be replaced. So far, Pgi hasn't put forth any kind of replacement ideas. Most player ideas have been about the whole skilltree. Perhaps it'd be easier to just replace Pinpoint.

I'd like to discuss ideas to replace just Pinpoint here.

My idea is to replace it with a hill climbing skill. Surely an experienced pilot could climb hills better than a trainee. It'd also help us not get stuck on rocks, roots, etc.

If you like my idea, great. If not, please share an alternative idea.

What exactely do you mean with "pinpoint"?
Why is it "useless"? You provide no arguments.
Why is it obvious that it has to be replaced?

Are you an intellectual human being able to discuss a topic or are you a lower monkey howling out some random brainfarts?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Pinpoint's really useful, its that thing you get after you get the other 3 skills so that all the basics are doubled.

Honestly though I wouldn't mind some more skills to unlock that actually do something or at least one to replace pin point.


Also even though there is all this complaining about pinpoint alphas and whatnot, I really wouldn't like this game to have the guns fire anywhere other than where you aim. This is one of the few games that I like the shooting in just because aim actually matters, theres no randomization mechanic or crazy recoil functions, or cone of fire (other than MGs). Got to remember that randomization hurts more than just Alpha strikes and we've seen the wrath of the RNG gods already.

Paigan, on 04 October 2015 - 12:47 AM, said:

What exactely do you mean with "pinpoint"?
Why is it "useless"? You provide no arguments.
Why is it obvious that it has to be replaced?

Are you an intellectual human being able to discuss a topic or are you a lower monkey howling out some random brainfarts?

You would't happen to be making a joke here would you? You've been around for quite awhile I know. Pinpoint is a skill under the elite tree. Its litterally useless, it provides no bonus at all other than being the 4th skill so that you can have all elites. People usually replace whats broken.

Edited by Dakota1000, 04 October 2015 - 12:50 AM.

[Whatzituyah]

Paigan, on 04 October 2015 - 12:47 AM, said:

What exactely do you mean with "pinpoint"?
Why is it "useless"? You provide no arguments.
Why is it obvious that it has to be replaced?

Are you an intellectual human being able to discuss a topic or are you a lower monkey howling out some random brainfarts?

If he was a monkey he wouldn't type on the keyboard with actual words in a way that makes sense.

[Mystere]

Whatzituyah, on 04 October 2015 - 12:28 AM, said:

Heres the problem with pinpoint its instantaneous already. I think it shouldnt be instantaneous but I heard they did that and their were problems with it. I would also suggest it be like a cone of fire but like people said they would say "Why can't I hit where I am pointing?" also they say it counts as "RNG" so their goes that idea theirs not really a good solution at all.

When people suggest CoF, they're usually referring to a gaussian distribution. But the 1337 skilz types twist that into something else and then cry out in protest. <smh>

I myself prefer some type of fixed or manual convergence mechanic.

[Khobai]

thats dumb. we dont need more health for equipment. crits dont occur often enough as is.

what we need is better hill climbing. because its quite frankly retar ded that assault mechs get stuck on pebbles, pipes, roots, and can barely climb hills.

1) replace pinpoint with a skill that decreases hillclimbing deceleration by 10%. That would have the same effect of giving all mechs the current hill climbing module for free.

2) change the slowdown angles from 40/35/30/25/20 to 40/37/33/29/25 for tiny/small/medium/large/huge respectively so huge mechs arnt excessively penalized like they are now. Its dumb that huge mechs can barely even walk up hills and get stuck on every small obstruction sticking out of the ground.

3) make the hill climbing module reduce your slowdown angle by 5 degrees in addition to decreasing hillclimbing deceleration by 10%. That would make the hill climbing module much more useful because it would effectively shift your hill climbing archetype down one place (so huge becomes large, large becomes medium, etc...)

Those changes would eliminate most of the problems assaults have with getting stuck on EVERYTHING. And taking the hill climbing module would actually help most assaults then because it would lower their movement archetype from huge to large.

Edited by Khobai, 04 October 2015 - 01:40 AM.

[TheArisen]

Paigan, on 04 October 2015 - 12:47 AM, said:

What exactely do you mean with &quot;pinpoint&quot;?
Why is it &quot;useless&quot;? You provide no arguments.
Why is it obvious that it has to be replaced?

Are you an intellectual human being able to discuss a topic or are you a lower monkey howling out some random brainfarts?

Are you trying to troll or something? I know you're not a newbie.

In any case, let's stay on topic.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Whatzituyah, on 04 October 2015 - 12:28 AM, said:

Heres the problem with pinpoint its instantaneous already. I think it shouldnt be instantaneous but I heard they did that and their were problems with it. I would also suggest it be like a cone of fire but like people said they would say "Why can't I hit where I am pointing?" also they say it counts as "RNG" so their goes that idea theirs not really a good solution at all.

The solution is unfortunately more complexity to the game. Recoil affects the accuracy of ballistic weapons, the more you fire at once the wider your cone of fire. So, if you fire a single Gauss no problem, if you're standing perfectly still it'll hit where you aimed it. If you're moving, you get a bit more CoF which is reduced for arm mounted weapons especially on arms with lower arm actuators and hands which have finer control on weapon positioning.

The other big change we need is that your engine should only have so much power available. You can use that power to move, fire energy weapons, charge your gauss, use your JJ, etc. However it's limited so you migh not be able to fire more than 1 PPC or LL at a time or maybe 3 medium lasers.

At least that's where I think we need to go.

[zagibu]

The amount of people with bad reading comprehension is astonishing in this thread.

Anyway, I like the hill climbing suggestion. A small problem could be that it is only really useful for the heavier mechs, though. Maybe an AMS rate of fire buff? At least that would be equally useless for all mechs.

[LorDGuilhotinA]

its is realy useless?
so when u hiting a target far away, and then a jenner jump on ur face and u aim on him with your lasers (more than 1), this skill does nothing? i see that its needed some time to the lasers to go "pinpoint" instead os spreading damage
hard to explain where i can get, but i think thats there is some use for this skill, its just not easy to see its efects...
skill tree needs some updates? maybe...
its realy something that people should be complaining about so much? i dont think so, theres higher priority stuff to be done....

[zagibu]

LorDGuilhotinA, on 04 October 2015 - 05:33 AM, said:

its is realy useless?
so when u hiting a target far away, and then a jenner jump on ur face and u aim on him with your lasers (more than 1), this skill does nothing? i see that its needed some time to the lasers to go "pinpoint" instead os spreading damage
hard to explain where i can get, but i think thats there is some use for this skill, its just not easy to see its efects...
skill tree needs some updates? maybe...
its realy something that people should be complaining about so much? i dont think so, theres higher priority stuff to be done....

Convergence used to be a thing back in the day, with weapons taking time to adapt to the new range. This is no longer the case, and the skill is a left over from back then. Paul stated a possible replacement in this thread: http://mwomercs.com/...29#entry3766729
But it seems they never got around implementing it.

[l33tworks]

I like the idea. It should be around 5% extra, just like half the module which no one uses anyway, cos even at 10% its almost useless. Assault mechs especially just get stuck on the dumbest little slopes its ridiculous for a mech with legs.

Edited by l33tworks, 04 October 2015 - 06:18 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

I would rather keep the skill and remove the instant convergence already in-game. That would go a long way to helping reduce the meta.

[Flaming oblivion]

Spread damage core we can counter lrms (the weapon that isnt accurate ) With equipment and modules ,

Why cant we counter PP damage? That is far more devastating and much harder to avoid.

[CDLord HHGD]

Flaming oblivion, on 04 October 2015 - 06:55 AM, said:

Spread damage core we can counter lrms (the weapon that isnt accurate ) With equipment and modules ,

Why cant we counter PP damage? That is far more devastating and much harder to avoid.

Because it's a lot harder to nerf one's ability to point an click verses in TT where you just add an attack modifier. PGI has to be very careful here too. While I am OK with things like no convergence and CoF, not everyone is. Hard to tell what (and if) PGI is cooking up.

[Satan n stuff]

Whatzituyah, on 04 October 2015 - 12:28 AM, said:

Heres the problem with pinpoint its instantaneous already. I think it shouldnt be instantaneous but I heard they did that and their were problems with it. I would also suggest it be like a cone of fire but like people said they would say "Why can't I hit where I am pointing?" also they say it counts as "RNG" so their goes that idea theirs not really a good solution at all.

It doesn't have to be random.

[El Bandito]

Hill Climbing sounds good--God knows my Assaults need it.

Other suggestions can include: Sensor range + 5%. (could be up to 10%) Because pilots with experience can sense things newbies cannot.

Edited by El Bandito, 04 October 2015 - 05:32 PM.

[Xoco]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 04 October 2015 - 03:42 AM, said:

The solution is unfortunately more complexity to the game. Recoil affects the accuracy of ballistic weapons, the more you fire at once the wider your cone of fire. So, if you fire a single Gauss no problem, if you're standing perfectly still it'll hit where you aimed it. If you're moving, you get a bit more CoF which is reduced for arm mounted weapons especially on arms with lower arm actuators and hands which have finer control on weapon positioning.

The other big change we need is that your engine should only have so much power available. You can use that power to move, fire energy weapons, charge your gauss, use your JJ, etc. However it's limited so you migh not be able to fire more than 1 PPC or LL at a time or maybe 3 medium lasers.

At least that's where I think we need to go.

This would probably fix most of the problems with the game. Unfortunately, it will also mean that crazy alpha (and the benefit of being able to carry a lot more weapons) will pretty much disappear. If it depends on engine rating, it could do some nasty thing with the Clan-IS balance, or maybe work in its favor. I don't know...are clan weapons supposed to be more energy efficient or more of a power hog because they have more functions?