88 replies to this topic

[xXBagheeraXx]

Or just...you know....fix the heat system that would not allow massive laser alphas...

For example Mechwarrior 3? You couldnt fire more than 2 ppcs simulaneously without blowing up your mech...that game also had true 2.0 heatsinks, so if you had a lot mounted you would dissapate the heat very quickly. The game would turn from alpha boating to people having to spread out thier weapons groups to prevent overheating.

Also, if the alternative weapons to lasers and gauss actually registered correctly, people would use them.

[Troutmonkey]

Dino Might, on 06 October 2015 - 06:51 AM, said:

OP, prepare to be beat to death with this misconception.
Just realized you are the OP. There's a contradiction. I am now confused.

Was referring to another idea that automatically spread damage across components for every weapon, like how the CERPPC works

[FupDup]

xXBagheeraXx, on 06 October 2015 - 04:06 PM, said:

Or just...you know....fix the heat system that would not allow massive laser alphas...

For example Mechwarrior 3? You couldnt fire more than 2 ppcs simulaneously without blowing up your mech...that game also had true 2.0 heatsinks, so if you had a lot mounted you would dissapate the heat very quickly. The game would turn from alpha boating to people having to spread out thier weapons groups to prevent overheating.

Also, if the alternative weapons to lasers and gauss actually registered correctly, people would use them.

Actually, my Ghetto Hellstar in MW3 can fire 4 Clan ERPPCs at the same time without exploding. It does admittedly shut down immediately, but the heat dissipates so fast that I can start back up instantly and be 100% cooled off before my guns are fully recharged. It can keep firing back-to-back 4 CERPPC alphas all day long.

[Alek Ituin]

l33tworks, on 06 October 2015 - 06:14 AM, said:

Have you even thought this through from a technical standpoint OP? They don't have the ability to do reticle bloom in the way you suggest. Just look at the way the jump sniping weapon accuracy was implemented. It goes from perfect accuracy to a wonky angle instantly the moment you fire while you are still jump jetting. There is no analogue feature here. Just on on/off state.

With the worldwide player base and lag its just too hard. If its client side it will be hacked and if its server side all the people with bad connections will just have yet another huge drawbag to deal with, just like with increased lock on times, delayed info gathering, delayed shutdown/startup shutdown sequence, delayed zoom times (you can literally make 5 zoom changes at 50ms ping for every 1 zoom change you can make at 200ms ping, I have tried it)

What they can do however that will effectively give the same effect as what you suggest, is increase the the thickness of laser beams to cover a larger area of damage the further out you get. Other weapons would be unaffected and remain accurate whereas the pinpoint accuracy of lasers will be virtually eliminated. It will be completely server side as thats where damage is applied anyway, maybe some visual changes to the thickness of lasers on user end only to reflect that.

Something like this



Should not take more than a few days worth of work.

The beauty of it is at closer ranges you will still be able to single out components however as the mech gets further away the area of damage the laser touches gets naturally more spread out because the mechs get smaller in your view.

See above IMO What I suggest is not only simple and very easy to implement for PGI, it also solves the whole thing about pinpoint lasers without having to deal with any of the complicated 1000s of convergence ideas that have been tossed around for years.

And you just made every single ER laser obsolete and useless.

Congratulations.

Edited by Alek Ituin, 06 October 2015 - 04:33 PM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

FupDup, on 06 October 2015 - 04:31 PM, said:

Actually, my Ghetto Hellstar in MW3 can fire 4 Clan ERPPCs at the same time without exploding. It does admittedly shut down immediately, but the heat dissipates so fast that I can start back up instantly and be 100% cooled off before my guns are fully recharged. It can keep firing back-to-back 4 CERPPC alphas all day long.

Yeah but that is proably because you have so many sinks it increases your overall capacity. with what I had in mind heatsinks dont increase capacity by that much.

[FupDup]

xXBagheeraXx, on 06 October 2015 - 04:37 PM, said:

Yeah but that is proably because you have so many sinks it increases your overall capacity. with what I had in mind heatsinks dont increase capacity by that much.

The exact number was 30-31 DHS depending on my preferences (sometimes used a TC in the head in place of the 31st dub).

[Otto Cannon]

We could really do with something like this, but we've been ignored for years. Personally I liked the similar system in DocBach's thread.

[Mystere]

I still say no.

I much prefer fixed convergence adjustable via MechLab or in-battle (e.g. via mouse wheel).

[Drasari]

Nope again. Hard cap of 30 on heat, but an increases to heat dissipation. This will force weapon cycling. I do not ever want to not hit where my cross-hair is.

[Light-Speed]

I wonder if anyone discussing how alphas should be nerfed have considered how screwed the lights would be under said system.

Lights can't stand around chain firing everything like an Atlas. I already have enough trouble aiming my Jenner's lasers while trying to not get one-shotted. I don't need cone of fire adding to my movement and the stupid torso-affected-by-leg-movement design, nor do I want my dps any lower.

[Troutmonkey]

Drasari, on 06 October 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

Nope again. Hard cap of 30 on heat, but an increases to heat dissipation. This will force weapon cycling. I do not ever want to not hit where my cross-hair is.

But you will hit where you point 100% of the time, as long as you don't fire all your weapons at once. You could still fire a decent chunk of your weapons (say 4 MLs or 2LLs).

I like the idea of heat being a balancing factor, but it doesn't resolve the issue around ballistics as they run cool enough to fire anyway. This system is a catch all that cannot be bypassed with different weapon combinations

Edited by Troutmonkey, 06 October 2015 - 05:25 PM.

[Troutmonkey]

Nightingale27, on 06 October 2015 - 05:09 PM, said:

I wonder if anyone discussing how alphas should be nerfed have considered how screwed the lights would be under said system.

Lights can't stand around chain firing everything like an Atlas. I already have enough trouble aiming my Jenner's lasers while trying to not get one-shotted. I don't need cone of fire adding to my movement and the stupid torso-affected-by-leg-movement design, nor do I want my dps any lower.

Well considering that enemy trying to alpha strike a light in motion will have very little chance of coring it in a single shot, I think lights would be very well off under such a system. It helps that lights have a very low alpha compared to heavier mechs, so they'd be the least affected. With a CPU cap of 20 and MLAS at 5 CPU, you could fire 4x MLs with no affect to convergence whatsoever. The CPU limit for certain lights could also be adjusted to be higher if need be.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Troutmonkey, on 06 October 2015 - 05:19 PM, said:

But you will hit where you point 100% of the time, as long as you don't fire all your weapons at once. You could still fire a decent chunk of your weapons (say 4 MLs or 2LLs).

I like the idea of heat being a balancing factor, but it doesn't resolve the issue around ballistics as they run cool enough to fire anyway. This system is a catch all that cannot be bypassed with different weapon combinations

But most ballistics are DPS weapons, running DPS builds by definition have longer TTK...a good thing for the current environment.

FupDup, on 06 October 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

The exact number was 30-31 DHS depending on my preferences (sometimes used a TC in the head in place of the 31st dub).

Exactly, with what I had in mind even if you had 40 sinks if you fired more than 2, you shutdown...hard...if not exploded...but with that many sinks you would be cold before they recharged even in caustic. It would be pretty much diminishing returns up to a point, but it would actually allow heat neutral builds.

[Troutmonkey]

xXBagheeraXx, on 06 October 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

But most ballistics are DPS weapons, running DPS builds by definition have longer TTK...a good thing for the current environment.

But firing ballistics in combination with energy still causes issues. I know it's no longer meta but you can bypass heat with the old 1-2xPPC 1-2x AC10 trick and deal a casual 30 damage to the same spot. Some mechs could do even more.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Troutmonkey, on 06 October 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

But firing ballistics in combination with energy still causes issues. I know it's no longer meta but you can bypass heat with the old 1-2xPPC 1-2x AC10 trick and deal a casual 30 damage to the same spot. Some mechs could do even more.

What is 30 damage in the current game?

Back when the most powerful mech was the Gauss K2, that was painful....30 damage is nothing now.

ANd still 2 ppcs would mean close to 80% heat or so + the heat from the Ac10...meaning you have to wait until you are down all the way to 10% heat or so before you can fire them again. Toss in Jump jet heat and you are a very slow firing sniper...as you should be. If you get bum rushed by someone in a cold-running brawler at short range, you will die due to your slow rate of fire....since you are long range focused....As you should.....

Fail to see the issue here.

[Aethon]

Kind of reminds me of the FCS upgrades from the old Armored Core games (I guess they still make Armored Core, but it just was not the same after 3...maybe after 2...).

[Johnny Z]

I like this idea among others. It would make macros required to get high performance. So maybe Mechwarrior could include a macro maker. It will be immediated hacked if possible.

Edited by Johnny Z, 06 October 2015 - 06:25 PM.

[Zen Idiot]

this is a pretty good idea.
make it so.

[Ohmlink]

I'd be in favor of COF mechanic of some sort. Ideally firing one or two weapons wouldn't do a whole lot but those big Alphas would have you bathing the intended target in damage not just in a single spot.

[l33tworks]

Alek Ituin, on 06 October 2015 - 04:33 PM, said:

And you just made every single ER laser obsolete and useless.

Congratulations.

Bull. Er lasers could just have a reduced beam diameter maybe just a fraction higher than now. Problem solved.

I dont think you understand what this will do. You will still be able to focus down a mech at range, you just wont be able to pinpoint focus components with a a bunch of lasers. Isn't that the main problem these days?