162 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Spr1ggan, on 17 October 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

I'll take Bog over Caustic any day of the week.

I actually miss the old Caustic....but I hate bog.

Mind you, I actually like the map, but I literally cannot get a team that wins on that.... I have matches where I nabbed 6 kills/800 damage in the first couple minutes, where we were up 10 to 6...and my team still loses..... that map simply HATES me.

I usuall y knew when the Elo YoYo was going to head down...because it always seemed to coincide with a Viridian match, lol.

[Wintersdark]

Winterburn, on 08 October 2015 - 02:39 PM, said:

In real life you can actually see either cracks in the earth or the molten brimstone itself. What you can see on the new caustic is magical blue fire on bare rock.

Or, its gas leaching up through porous (like volcanic) rock, then burning as it mixes with the atmosphere? Say, like marsh gas? Even here on earth we see "magical" blue fire on top of water.

Caustic's fire isn't even remotely unbelievable.

[Wintersdark]

Navid A1, on 09 October 2015 - 12:55 AM, said:

The funniest thing i encountered in the new caustic is that there are a lot of clutter that you can go over, but can not back up over the same piece of pebble...

poke for a shot and get stuck on your way backing off in front of 3 angry enemies who just want to make you pay for that dual gauss shot

That's normal, happens on viridian as well.

It's because of speed: those snaggy things don't either stop you or not. It's the hill climbing code in action. You decelerate as you go up a steep incline. As you're traveling faster forward, you get enough "momentum" (actually incorrect, as momentum implies inertia, which isn't a part of this) to get over the top of the obstacle. As you're going slower in reverse, your speed reaches zero before you crest the top of the pebble, aaaaand hard stop.

That's why those pebbles are so much worse for assaults than lights. Despite the ridiculous mass and (should be) inertia, the assault starts at a lower speed so it stops faster and doesn't make it over the pebble that a light can just waltz over.

[Spr1ggan]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 October 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

I actually miss the old Caustic....but I hate bog.

Mind you, I actually like the map, but I literally cannot get a team that wins on that.... I have matches where I nabbed 6 kills/800 damage in the first couple minutes, where we were up 10 to 6...and my team still loses..... that map simply HATES me.

I usuall y knew when the Elo YoYo was going to head down...because it always seemed to coincide with a Viridian match, lol.

Bog was my most hated map until the Caustic revamp came out. Now i don't mind getting bog cos at least it isn't caustic. New caustic has more nascar than i saw on old caustic. Probably due to the lower visibility and being harder to cut through the middle with assaults cos rocks everywhere.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 17 October 2015 - 01:45 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Spr1ggan, on 17 October 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

Bog was my most hated map until the Caustic revamp came out. Now i don't mind getting bog cos at least it isn't caustic. New caustic has more nascar than i saw on old caustic. Probably due to the lower visibility and being harder to cut through the middle with assaults cos rocks everywhere.

Agreed.... but I hold a higher W/L on it than Bog...probably because I favor ballistics so don't have near the heat issues the Meta builds do at the moment.

[KHETTI]

The new Nascar Valley......erm i mean Caustic Valley, looks amazing and has the atmosphere of some volatile alien planet, but with the center still the main feature of the map, except its now its so cluttered, assaults or anything that isn't fast , finds itself isolated very quickly.
Same map, just more clutter, promotes nascar games, replace the cauldera with a ridge line or something.

[Bishop Steiner]

KHETTI, on 17 October 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

The new Nascar Valley......erm i mean Caustic Valley, looks amazing and has the atmosphere of some volatile alien planet, but with the center still the main feature of the map, except its now its so cluttered, assaults or anything that isn't fast , finds itself isolated very quickly.
Same map, just more clutter, promotes nascar games, replace the cauldera with a ridge line or something.

can't be NASCAR..... need offroaders for it!

[KHETTI]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 October 2015 - 01:57 PM, said:

can't be NASCAR..... need offroaders for it!

Thats the thing, despite the massive clutter that should hinder nascar, people still automatically do it, remove the cauldera and replace it with something that doesn't resemble a roundabout.

Edited by KHETTI, 17 October 2015 - 02:04 PM.

[Wintersdark]

KHETTI, on 17 October 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

Thats the thing, despite the massive clutter that should hinder nascar, people still automatically do it, remove the cauldera and replace it with something that doesn't resemble a roundabout.

I don't see much NASCAR in Caustic now. A limited amount - people tend to rotate counterclockwise a bit - but it rarely works out like it did before. People tend to move a bit then get stuck in fighting

[Brizna]

For me the lack of vision is the worst crime of the new caustic, well of the new maps in general since that is a general trend. Playing a game in bad visibility from time to time is a nice thing but having to strain your eyes every match is simply not enjoyable. Not to mention that when you can't see someone with real vision ECM becomes even more valuable, since ECM doesn't prevent you just from locking it but even to just know it is there, the end result is a great difficulty in perceiving things which severely limits battle perception and in my mind match quality.

[Nightshade24]

Kira Onime, on 06 October 2015 - 12:32 PM, said:

PGI hasn't learned jack **** from viridian bog/forest colony and has put clutter everywhere.

Wouldn't want to be an assault on that map.

I got no problem with either map... There is a reason why many larger mechs with complicated weapons often have a duel cockpit or a command console or what have you on it. (more true with duel cockpit).

The mech needs to focus on where the hell he is shooting but staying on the move is important too so there are 2 pilots in sync controlling the mech, 1 for firing, 1 for moving.

Picture this as Battletech 3050 the 1994 arcade (?) game, known for being the first battletech video game...

It has several buttons and joysticks... It is nearly impossible for an average human to move and shoot at the same time unless you got spider leg fingers which can stretch and basically use both joysticks and press buttons. (1 joystick for turning, the other for twisting) Otherwise most people got there friend to go play together...

Only a skilled pilot- much like in battletech 3050, much like in the TT, much like in MW4 and in MW: O, needs to look where he is shooting AND look where he is going.

Piloting skills is as important as Gunnery skills. Blind fighting skills (ability to fight in poor visibility and/or night, using MW4 lingo here) and Sensor skills (ability to take information and use it... this is what many people lack in there nascar chases when the enemy doritos pop up behind them but they just keep running...) is also important but debatibly the main focus for a mechwarrior is Gunnery and Piloting.


If you got good piloting skills. Caustic Valley, Forest colony, Viridian bog. etc. Is no problem.

Viridian bog is my favourite map in assaults. Ranging from my direwolf to atlas. Awesome to banshee. Warhawk to stalker. I just pilot around the obstacles instead of try to hump it until I eventually get over or have to revserse...
This is more of a problem the player never learns anything more then PGI never learns anything...

HOWEVER I have to say that the Viridian bog revamp is going to allow larger mechs to crush through those roots and stuff...

[BigJim]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 October 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

I actually miss the old Caustic....but I hate bog.

Agreed - I far prefer the old caustic (and lo, just as I'm posting this, I drop into new Caustic - it's a nice set piece scenery project, but I wonder if PGI's mappers have every played a computer game vs other humans), but I utterly detest bog.
I'm not ashamed to say I've alt-F4'ed quite a few times as soon as I see the Bog loading screen... No map should actively make you miserable, but that map managed to accomplish the impressive feat of turning a game, a thing of joy, into a thing of misery, such that I'd rather do some housework than actually play MWO...

Edited by BigJim, 17 October 2015 - 03:59 PM.

[Nightshade24]

Spr1ggan, on 17 October 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

Bog was my most hated map until the Caustic revamp came out. Now i don't mind getting bog cos at least it isn't caustic. New caustic has more nascar than i saw on old caustic. Probably due to the lower visibility and being harder to cut through the middle with assaults cos rocks everywhere.

For me my experience was a lot less NASCAR O_o

[Kira Onime]

Nightshade24, on 17 October 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

I got no problem with either map...

Doesn't mean the clutter is terribly designed. Stairs on bog on probably the single worst thing to happen on that map.

Nightshade24, on 17 October 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

There is a reason why many larger mechs with complicated weapons often have a duel cockpit or a command console or what have you on it. (more true with duel cockpit).

The mech needs to focus on where the hell he is shooting but staying on the move is important too so there are 2 pilots in sync controlling the mech, 1 for firing, 1 for moving.

Picture this as Battletech 3050 the 1994 arcade (?) game, known for being the first battletech video game...

It has several buttons and joysticks... It is nearly impossible for an average human to move and shoot at the same time unless you got spider leg fingers which can stretch and basically use both joysticks and press buttons. (1 joystick for turning, the other for twisting) Otherwise most people got there friend to go play together...

Only a skilled pilot- much like in battletech 3050, much like in the TT, much like in MW4 and in MW: O, needs to look where he is shooting AND look where he is going.

Piloting skills is as important as Gunnery skills. Blind fighting skills (ability to fight in poor visibility and/or night, using MW4 lingo here) and Sensor skills (ability to take information and use it... this is what many people lack in there nascar chases when the enemy doritos pop up behind them but they just keep running...) is also important but debatibly the main focus for a mechwarrior is Gunnery and Piloting.

Completely irrelevant to a single player game.

Nightshade24, on 17 October 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

If you got good piloting skills. Caustic Valley, Forest colony, Viridian bog. etc. Is no problem.

Pretty sure I have decent piloting skills as well as quite a few of the people agreeing with me.

[Mr Hunter]

Just alpine. Big, open space, seems like a place where mechs would fight en masse.

[Nightshade24]

Kira Onime, on 17 October 2015 - 03:59 PM, said:

Completely irrelevant to a single player game.

come again?

[Wintersdark]

Brizna, on 17 October 2015 - 03:16 PM, said:

For me the lack of vision is the worst crime of the new caustic, well of the new maps in general since that is a general trend. Playing a game in bad visibility from time to time is a nice thing but having to strain your eyes every match is simply not enjoyable. Not to mention that when you can't see someone with real vision ECM becomes even more valuable, since ECM doesn't prevent you just from locking it but even to just know it is there, the end result is a great difficulty in perceiving things which severely limits battle perception and in my mind match quality.

I don't mind it really. It only - like Forest Colony - applies at certain times, and in certain areas.

The visibility applies to both sides, too, so there's that. Areas and times of lower visibility allow means for brawlers to get into position, too, without being hammered by relentless long ranged mechs.

I'd like to see more - in the future - parts of maps with extremely poor visibility. No whole maps, but regions on the map where visibility is very limited.

[Kira Onime]

Nightshade24, on 17 October 2015 - 04:12 PM, said:

come again?

Let me put it more clearly.

How is your text on "dual cockpits", "2 pilots" even remotely relevant to what I, and quite a few people, consider a poorly designed map?

[Nightshade24]

Kira Onime, on 17 October 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

Let me put it more clearly.

How is your text on "dual cockpits", "2 pilots" even remotely relevant to what I, and quite a few people, consider a poorly designed map?

Demonstrating that mech combat is more than just moving as a big blob and shooting at red doritoes that mech combat is also about how you pilot the mech and not just how you shoot?

That if you have good piloting skills objects and clutter is not a problem for you while for some people they are poor at piloting skills and need to stop shooting and look at the ground to get around the obstacle and thus taking unnecessary damage thus the major reason most people hate clutter?

[Kira Onime]

Nightshade24, on 17 October 2015 - 04:40 PM, said:

Demonstrating that mech combat is more than just moving as a big blob and shooting at red doritoes that mech combat is also about how you pilot the mech and not just how you shoot?

That if you have good piloting skills objects and clutter is not a problem for you while for some people they are poor at piloting skills and need to stop shooting and look at the ground to get around the obstacle and thus taking unnecessary damage thus the major reason most people hate clutter?

....

I think the entire point of "POORLY DESIGNED MAPS" just booked a flight to Singapore 20,000 feets above your head.

Last chance to get on that flight.