145 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

The Atlas Overlord, on 08 October 2015 - 08:05 PM, said:

I'm sorry you refuse to read.



We get it, you believe what you believe.

P.S. Shouldn't you have your tier status displayed before you talk down about how much you know of "comp teams" and "group play"?

You are literally writing up the text book definition of strawman arguments.

Go win in comp level with LRMs. I hear a lot of opinion stuff with absolutely no data to back it up. None. Go win at a comp level with LRMs.

I'm not the one trying to tell the actual people who win, consistently and persistently at the game, that they're all wrong. That's you. Go prove it. The data to support LRMs being bad is already in and has been for a long time. You're saying it's all wrong. Go prove it. Go ahead - would love to see it. Go take LRMs and win against competitive tier players. Go get a group of players to do so. Go actually read what every comp tier group has said, repeatedly and consistently, for years.

You are making baseless statements of your opinions and trying to pass them off as facts, then when presented with facts trying to brush them off as opinions or beliefs.

You're wrong. Demonstratively wrong. You are unable to demonstrate you're right, because (and I'll repeat this as it's worth making clear) you're absolutely wrong. Strawman arguments and BS opinion stuff is all you've presented. Go present actual performance data and telemetry showing LRMs being used effectively at a competitive level in spite of what everyone who plays at a competitive level has consistently said.

Ignoring this sort of total BS and pretending that because someone has an opinion their opinion is correct is part of why we have such crappy balance. Telemtry is in, facts are facts, tested results are tested. Put up some data and examples.

[Y E O N N E]

Atlas's account suggests he has two weeks of play. Assuming that isn't an alt, just roll your eyes and move on, man, because he's too green to know any better. Just let him discover all of this on his own as he climbs up the ladder. Some people just have to learn by doing and can't be told.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

MischiefSC, on 08 October 2015 - 08:38 PM, said:

The same bluster and bias as before.

Do you just copy and paste this?

Edit: Still waiting to see that comp quality Tier to match the ego

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 08 October 2015 - 10:23 PM.

[Adiuvo]

The Atlas Overlord, on 08 October 2015 - 10:17 PM, said:

Do you just copy and paste this?

Edit: Still waiting to see that comp quality Tier to match the ego

There is no comp quality tier. The tier system isn't anything besides an XP grind. You can find comp quality by looking at the standings for leagues (MLMW) or by general reputation./

Either way, he's right, and you're wrong. You just started playing this game last week, and you've already attempted to reach conclusions about its metagame. That doesn't even make sense.

[MischiefSC]

Adiuvo, on 08 October 2015 - 10:35 PM, said:

There is no comp quality tier. The tier system isn't anything besides an XP grind. You can find comp quality by looking at the standings for leagues (MLMW) or by general reputation./

Either way, he's right, and you're wrong. You just started playing this game last week, and you've already attempted to reach conclusions about its metagame. That doesn't even make sense.

The tier system rewards quantity over quality and doesn't take into account CW play at all.

Sometimes though it's worth arguing a point with someone who is not just wrong but vocally, stubbornly wrong because it lets you hammer points home to the audience. You don't fix wrong on the internet - you can however make your case a bit more bluntly and brutally than you appropriately should to sane but misguided members of the audience.

Anyone who plays CW much knows there are a ton of people who are otherwise good players, nice people and smart and otherwise not bad folks who have bad ideas about how stuff plays out in the game. They either had a good anecdotal experience or were on the wrong end of a bad one and have a bad habit stuck in their head.

So it's not a bad thing for them to see a very blunt (bordering on brutal) smackdown of those bad ideas in an indirect way because the polite, gentle and indirect method doesn't seem to get the point across.

LRMs are bad by comparison. Indirect fire is bad as a concept for a FPS in this format. We can't have a useful, serious discussion about it not to mention dream (oh what dreams!) about actually balanced LRMs, SRMs and everything that isn't a laser when such a big slice of the population doesn't just think that LRMs are good but some even think they are OP.

So... sometimes it's good to have someone willing to play the punching bag in public.

How's life up on Mt. Tryhard? With the new tier system I hear every full week you have Tier 1 capped out you get T5s in little bunny suits bringing you drinks from the bar and your favorite mech gets an upgrade to built in DirecTV with NFL Sunday Ticket.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Adiuvo, on 08 October 2015 - 10:35 PM, said:

Either way, he's right, and you're wrong.

You believe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief

Adiuvo, on 08 October 2015 - 10:35 PM, said:

There is no comp quality tier. The tier system isn't anything besides an XP grind.

Interesting that you choose to ignore all evidence to the contrary.

Is it self justification for yours being low, or just wishful thinking?

MischiefSC, on 08 October 2015 - 11:00 PM, said:

Same Old, Same Old

Still waiting on that reveal, pro master.

[Dimento Graven]

The Atlas Overlord, on 09 October 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

...

Interesting that you choose to ignore all evidence to the contrary.

Is it self justification for yours being low, or just wishful thinking?

...

Paul's explanation (someone famous for being wrong, misunderstanding what he's told, and so on) notwithstanding, PSR is SOME indication of past performance.

You are penalized for losing badly, and are not rewarded for overly bad performance on a win.

The reality of it is: If you lose enough, and don't perform at least well enough to have a 'no change' status on your PSR, and if you're doing badly enough on wins to also get that 'no change' status on your PSR, then your PSR will go down.

If all it was, was a grind, then pretty much EVERY person playing since January 15th would be of the same rank, that's not the case.

There are people who have been playing for the past 10 months who are rank 5, and some who have been playing a lot less who are much higher in rank.

Your performance, which is typically a reflection of your skill, determines what happens to your PSR.

If you're not winning, and not winning with even a semi-decent score, you will NEVER grind your way to Tier 1.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 09 October 2015 - 11:25 AM.

[Adiuvo]

The Atlas Overlord, on 09 October 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

You believe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief

Interesting that you choose to ignore all evidence to the contrary.

Is it self justification for yours being low, or just wishful thinking?

Still waiting on that reveal, pro master.

lol

I'm a starter light for EmP. The team that just won this. I've been playing at the top competition level for this game for about 2 years now and as a team we've won first place at every major tourney except for MCW multiple times. If you played this game for a period longer than a week you'd probably know this.

There are various reasons as to why LRMs are bad. Primary reason is trading, LRMs are completely incapable due to LoS requirement for the duration of the flight, during which multiple volleys from a normal mech can be let off. Taking ~100 damage to the face is not worth dealing ~30 spread.

I'm somewhat curious about your W/L and KDR. Those stats tell a whole lot more about the worth of a player than tier ranking does, and have the added benefit of not requiring 1,000 matches to be placed properly.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Adiuvo, on 09 October 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

I'm somewhat curious about your W/L and KDR. Those stats tell a whole lot more about the worth of a player than tier ranking does, and have the added benefit of not requiring 1,000 matches to be placed properly.

#rekt

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 09 October 2015 - 01:05 PM.

[Mcgral18]

The Atlas Overlord, on 09 October 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

#rekt

Well, it explains why you think Lights will always kill Assaults; the worst Assault suited to killing Lights.


Now, overall stats if you wouldn't mind?

Edited by Mcgral18, 09 October 2015 - 01:08 PM.

[MischiefSC]

The Atlas Overlord, on 09 October 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

You believe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief



Interesting that you choose to ignore all evidence to the contrary.

Is it self justification for yours being low, or just wishful thinking?



Still waiting on that reveal, pro master.

It's like you think pretending your opinion is proof is going to fool anyone.

Prove LRMs are good. Every comp team in the game has proven LRMs are inferior and they've done it consistently. Again and again and again. You're trying to dispute the existing game data and telemetry.

Prove it. I'm not arguing my opinion, you are. I argue a lot of topics on the forums and I refuse to have it be about someones Tier being relevant to the worth of their opinion. I don't consider someones Tier the correct measure of their understanding of the game. A ton of the best players in the game spend most their time in private matches or playing against other exceptionally good players, they may play roles in their team that don't involve securing kills. Maybe when they do play it's CW which doesn't affect their PSR. Maybe they've played rarely since January. I take their rankings in the competitive league play seriously. Their PSR? Not so much.

All of which is irrelevant here. You're trying to assert that all the top performing players in the game are wrong and don't really understand how the game works. Prove it. It's really simple. I'm asserting that their assessment of the performance of LRMs is correct. All the games existing performance metrics and telemetry already back that up. I don't have to 'prove' that nor am I asserting anything based on my opinion alone. It's like saying the Earth orbits the Sun. Heliocentric model is already the confirmed, accepted and proven model. You're asserting it's wrong. Okay, prove it.

Come on. Prove it. Show everyone they are wrong. Provide data and evidence. All you've done is play strawman games and act huffy. If you have proof then put it up. Otherwise you're just proving your own irrelevance.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Mcgral18, on 09 October 2015 - 01:07 PM, said:

Well, it explains why you think Lights will always kill Assaults; the worst Assault suited to killing Lights.


Now, overall stats if you wouldn't mind?

Oh you want my games with the trial spider appeasing the paulconomy to earn an atlas too?

Yeah THAT'LL accurately represent my skill.... *literally can't rolls eyes harder*

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 09 October 2015 - 01:12 PM.

[MischiefSC]

The Atlas Overlord, on 09 October 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

#rekt

So you're a smurf account with 86 matches?

How is that relevant? Farming T4 doesn't make someone a good player. You got anything with 1k or 2k drops in it?

All of which would mean nothing though, until you.... actually prove the point you're trying to assert.

Put up a 1.53 competitive level play with LRMs. Put up a 1.0 even. Competitive level play with LRMs. 1.0 w/l. For even 30 matches. Prove your assertion, change the games balance.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

MischiefSC, on 09 October 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

Yet more blustering

I could care less about trying to change your mind.

Oh wait, I've already said this half a dozen times and yet you respond the same way every time...

It's almost like...

The Atlas Overlord, on 08 October 2015 - 08:05 PM, said:

I'm sorry you refuse to read.

We get it, you believe what you believe.

P.S. Shouldn't you have your tier status displayed before you talk down about how much you know of "comp teams" and "group play"?

[Mcgral18]

The Atlas Overlord, on 09 October 2015 - 01:12 PM, said:

Oh you want my games with the trial spider appeasing the paulconomy to earn an atlas too?

Yeah THAT'LL accurately represent my skill.... *literally can't rolls eyes harder*

When you're stomping around in the Underhive, none of these stats have much impact.
Seal Clubbing.


Post overall, or upload to MechStats if you don't mind. That will eventually sort to within 90 days (for semi-accurate stats without your early blunders).

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

The Atlas Overlord, on 09 October 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

I could care less about trying to change your mind.

Oh wait, I've already said this half a dozen times and yet you respond the same way every time...

It's almost like...

MischiefSC, on 09 October 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

So you're a smurf account with 86 matches?

How is that relevant? Farming T4 doesn't make someone a good player. You got anything with 1k or 2k drops in it?

1) No I'm a new player with like 250 ish matches. 150ish in the trial spider until I bought, upgraded, and outfitted an atlas S.... with LRMs on it. Nice strawman though.

2) So "stats represent skill" then suddenly "stats don't represent skill"... followed by "only the stats I want to acknowledge represent skill". Is it dark in there? (I'm alluding that you're head is somewhere dark and sunless )

Mcgral18, on 09 October 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

When you're stomping around in the Underhive, none of these stats have much impact.
Seal Clubbing.


Post overall, or upload to MechStats if you don't mind. That will eventually sort to within 90 days (for semi-accurate stats without your early blunders).

"I'm too scared to reveal my tier but I judge people on their stats"

This community is something else.

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 09 October 2015 - 01:20 PM.

[Mcgral18]

The Atlas Overlord, on 09 October 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:

"I'm too scared to reveal my tier but I judge people on their stats"

This community is something else.

lol

[Dimento Graven]

The Atlas Overlord, on 09 October 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:

...

"I'm too scared to reveal my tier but I judge people on their stats"

This community is something else.

Yeah... Get used to it...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 09 October 2015 - 01:24 PM.

[pwnface]

The Atlas Overlord, on 09 October 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:

"I'm too scared to reveal my tier but I judge people on their stats"

This community is something else.

You realize that there are players that have overall 11:1 KDR or higher who are in Tier 3 right? The Tier system is literally an XP grind if you aren't terrible.


By your own admission you've played 250 matches only. A lot of the people in this thread have upward of 5000 matches played not including CW. Maybe you should play the game a little bit more before telling people stuff like "lights are better than assaults".

Edit: By the way, LRM atlas is probably the least useful thing you could possibly play. It's great for inflating your damage stats but next to useless for actually helping your team win.

Edited by pwnface, 09 October 2015 - 01:29 PM.

[MischiefSC]

The Atlas Overlord, on 09 October 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

I could care less about trying to change your mind.

Oh wait, I've already said this half a dozen times and yet you respond the same way every time...

It's almost like...

Project much? You're the only one blustering.

Okay, so you have an opinion with nothing to back it up, you get pointed out as wrong and then say everyone who shows you you're wrong is 'blustering' or the like.

Okay. Good luck with that. Appreciate you confirming that you shouldn't be taken seriously. Oh, wait wait. I'll do it you-style!

The Atlas Overlord, on 09 October 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

*baseless assertations*

I have dumb opinions and can't back them up. Seriously, you shouldn't be paying what I say any mind.

I'm the one who said stats are irrelevant to the validity (or lack of it) in someones opinion. Only place I'd give that any weight would be if they've already shown in competitive play that their ideas and opinions function successfully. It's about the best testing ground we have for game mechanics. You're the one who thinks tier is relevant. Ironic for a smurf.