182 replies to this topic

[Xandre Blackheart]

514yer, on 08 July 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

Noone even knows if theyre doing minimum distances either.
Either it was a Q&A or something touched on it but they said theyre only doing them "if they make sense"

There were some quotes or links to statements by the developers that indicate that minimum ranges are in for at least PPC's and LRM's. They were back in the middle of the thread however, so forgive me if I don't dig them out. I might even be mistaken if it's this thread even. Something I read though was convincing enough for me to say that barring official statement to the contrary, I'm considering them in.

[Xandre Blackheart]

Damion Sparhawk, on 08 July 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

energy weapons may not have a clear range cutoff but look at it this way, real world energy works like this for every foot in open space you divide by 2.(at least when dealing with the gigahertz range of microwaves, not entirely sure about lasers but the principles are similar in physics) so while the actual laser may continue for quite a while, the significant energy and heat generated by it, will dissipate rather quickly beyond it's effective range.

Heh yes. You are correct about linear vs logarithmic falloff for coherent photons. But I don't really know how they are implementing it in game.

Still 90m is the hard number we know about. and that just doesn't sound like a significant range difference to me.

[Procyon Alpha]

From what I have seen in a few fights witnessed the PPC does no dmg if with in min range of 90m. I may have been mistaken, and I know it should be 45m but if that is the case ankle bitters are going to be a big issue if I am hey on PPCs.

[Xandre Blackheart]

Yeshua Kerensky, on 08 July 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

From what I have seen in a few fights witnessed the PPC does no dmg if with in min range of 90m. I may have been mistaken, and I know it should be 45m but if that is the case ankle bitters are going to be a big issue if I am hey on PPCs.

No actually it's a 3 hex minimum range according to table top. That's 90 meters - hexes are 30 meter increments. 45m would be 1,5 hexes.

And yes I think you are going to want a screen of lights if you are wielding only PPC's

[AlphaKale]

Yeshua Kerensky, on 08 July 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

From what I have seen in a few fights witnessed the PPC does no dmg if with in min range of 90m. I may have been mistaken, and I know it should be 45m but if that is the case ankle bitters are going to be a big issue if I am hey on PPCs.

Yup. Minimum ranges will really help speedy scout-types against heavies and assault mechs. A good `assaulter or heavy pilot will want to keep some medium lasers or the like handy for those 'close encounters'.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Xandre Blackheart, on 08 July 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

There were some quotes or links to statements by the developers that indicate that minimum ranges are in for at least PPC's and LRM's. They were back in the middle of the thread however, so forgive me if I don't dig them out. I might even be mistaken if it's this thread even. Something I read though was convincing enough for me to say that barring official statement to the contrary, I'm considering them in.

Quote

Will the ranges of the BattleMechs' weapons - and the relationships between them - be more similar to those from the BattleTech tabletop game (including, perhaps, some implementation of any of the minimum, short, medium, long, and extreme range brackets), or those from the previous MechWarrior computer games? –Strum Wealh

[DAVID] With minimum ranges, it depends on how justified we can be in putting them into the game without them being silly. For PPCs, there’s mentions in the lore about they don’t reach a full charge at close ranges so as not to damage the attacker’s own electronic systems. LRMs, being meant for long range, do not necessarily arm before they clear a certain distance. But it’s harder to justify why you can’t accurately fire an Autocannon/2 or Autocannon/5 up close, other than it was a balance to their long range in the tabletop game, so they won’t be affected by any sort of minimum range. The tabletop long ranges, on the other hand, we’re interpreting as the maximum effective range. Lasers, AC slugs, and whatnot will travel past this range, but will begin to do less and less damage, and the effects of gravity on any sort of physical projectile will make it harder to hit your target. Missiles reaching the limits of their range will automatically detonate.

was what I was referring to

[Xandre Blackheart]

514yer, on 08 July 2012 - 11:42 PM, said:

was what I was referring to

Uhm.. that just makes me think it's even more likely that minimum range is in for PPC's.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Quote

[DAVID] With minimum ranges, it depends on how justified we can be in putting them into the game without them being silly.

was the part I was thinking of to start with but it actually seems more likely not to make it where you CANT fire in min range but you take some hit too (which would be cool imo)

[Xandre Blackheart]

514yer, on 08 July 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

was the part I was thinking of to start with but it actually seems more likely not to make it where you CANT fire in min range but you take some hit too (which would be cool imo)

Either way, it adds another dimension to the discussion. Although from what was posted above someone was saying they had witnessed a PPC doing 0 damage at ranges under 90m, so it may be no damage under minimum ranges. It was obviously from a leaked video as certainly no one in this thread would break NDA.

[Hagen von Tronje]

Okay, and what about the financials?
Double heatsinks are implemented. Why not fit them in and heat is a lesser problem?
And what about the enemy?
Do you really think Large Lasers or even PPC stand a chance against Mechs with Gauss or later with Clan ER-PPC?
Maybe you get two or three hits before your weapons are in range. Maybe your lasers are damaged by the time or you lost heat sinks.
Efficiency won't help you at this time.
What is the best, you get for your Creds?
I will start with double heatsinks at least. And even the ER-PPK is less efficient and a hot weapon there is no minimumrange and i can defend my Mech on any range.
Get my point? Spending creds now or forced to spend later?
Do not like Large Laser or PPC either.

[Theodore de Neuhoff]

Two PPCs are really deadly - at least for middle class mechs.. But depends on the geographical structure of a planet you are figthing on - even concerning the minimum range. At all -I do not like laser kids

[Beath Van]

AlphaKale, on 08 July 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

Yup. Minimum ranges will really help speedy scout-types against heavies and assault mechs. A good `assaulter or heavy pilot will want to keep some medium lasers or the like handy for those 'close encounters'.

Medium Laser ftw.
Best in Cost/Damage/Heat - efficiency.
An an insurance in CC.

[PaintedWolf]

We are not sure how the game Mechanics will work out. Right now lasers look pretty mean. Much meaner then TT. Laser boats may prove monstrous.

Also ER PPC and Gauss Rifle is the ultimate long range concentrated damage Mech combination. The PPC does high damage at range with high heat as the offset, the Gauss Rifle does the same with low heat but ammo dependency. Really those two are, obviously, naturally paired. I note the obvious because it is an online forum.

[Mentalcowman]

Both are not ammo dependant so i guess either way they are fairly balanced, if the ppc does have a minimum range well then im sure you will get many lights and mediums right up in your face exploiting this fact ^^.

[KageRyuu]

Depends primarily on how much weight and space I can spare for heat sinks, but generally I never really liked the PPC, regardless of it's slight range benefit, the LL is by far the most efficient long ranged damage dealer, if and when you need a direct fire solution.

[Bobfrombobtown]

All this debate about PPC's minimum range. Want to know something fun? ER PPCs do not have a minimum range, though they do produce 5 more heat per shot than a regular PPC. But hey, it would be fun to watch a light 'mech try to "exploit" your minimum range only to get face blasted with an ER PPC.

[KageRyuu]

Also, the real reason why I prefer the Large Lasers over say the PPCs.

Speed of Light 300,000 kilometers per second http://en.wikipedia..../Speed_of_light

vs

Speed of Lightning 220,000 kph http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning

When you absolutely positively have to kill every ****** ****** in the room this second, accept no substitute. Lasers.

[Bloodweaver]

AlphaKale, on 08 July 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

I'm thinking the LL will be a good weapon for the heavier end of the light mech category to carry. It will be a good-ranged harassment weapon which can deal substantial damage against slower (easier-to-hit) heavies and assaults. Of course all this assumes the light has reasonable amounts of cover to pop in-and-out of, and/or lance-mates to help distract the target...

My prediction is actually the reverse of yours. I think the LL will generally be more suited to heavy/assault Mechs, while the PPC will generally be more useful to medium/low-end heavy Mechs. I think this will be the case because the benefits of LLs over PPCs only become really significant when you're mounting several of them together. If you're limited to only one or two "big" weapons, the way you are on most Mechs under 70 tons, you might as well take the little bit of extra damage that one or two PPCs will give you over one or two LLs. Once you get to those heavier Mechs, though, where you're able to mount three or four of the things, the LL makes more sense. Or you can stick with two and have a respectable arsenal of secondary and auxiliary weapons as well - making the lower heat output even more of a concern. Additionally, the PPC's minimum range will be less of a concern if you have the speed to move out of it easily.

[Der Zivilist]

Just because I can - here, have some Large Laser hilarity on one of the single most underrated 'Mechs revealed so far

Spoiler

Cicada CDA-2LL Custom

Movement: 5/8
Engine: Standard 200
Heat Sinks: 12 Double [24]
Gyro: Standard Gyro
Internal: 67 (Endo Steel)
Armor: 134/137 (Ferro-Fibrous)

Weapons: 3x Large Laser

"Oh look, a scout! Heeeere little scouty scouty scouty..."
*sound of detonation*
"...did that thing just blow my arm off from 450 meters away?!"


(EDIT: since this forum software is utterly retarded with formatting, you'll have to make do with a summary instead of the full readout.)

Edited by Der Zivilist, 09 July 2012 - 09:23 AM.

[Dark Fury]

Adm Awesome, on 08 July 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

yeah it definitely depends on how you're going to play. If you're an Awesome for example, you probably don't want to change those PPC's to large lasers while you snipe. also if you want to take advantage of cover, you can poke out, shoot a much stronger burst with PPC's and then run back into cover. Large lasers are more of something I'd choose if I want to get up and personal.

I think MWO new mechanic for laser WILL be that ultimate factor that agree with my tactic. You can shoot large lasers up to 450m but since it's an over time damage instead of instant, many players won't want to risk sitting at that distance and missing on a lot of that damage. Now with a PPC, if your reticle is on them, you're pretty much guaranteed full damage output, as with the Large Laser, if they're moving or if you're just in a bad position, you might get as little as half that damage output.

This is assuming that PPC will do instant damage, but with it being a "lightning-gun" and since that's at least how it's already implemented in the game (at least according to the trailer) then I think it's safe to assume. Even in the older games, I never really used lasers at their max distance, I always used them as up close harassing tools.

I agree with you %100. I always tried to have a pair of PPCs if I was going to build a sniper mech. That's a lot of damage hitting a single spot on an opponent. But if you can't have 2 of them, then I prefer lasers.