83 replies to this topic

[Hardin4188]

Eiki, on 09 October 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

Largely irrelevant for long-range types unless you are using LRMs a lot. Unlike those tank games you can see enemies at a distance without a spotter. Sure lock-on makes it easier to see where someone is weakest, but when using Direct-Fire weapons it all comes down to aim.

You still don't want low signal when trying to focus fire. It's a lot easier saying attack Alpha then saying attack that Timber Wolf over there. There could be several Timber Wolves. If you're doing the long range laser vomit then sure bap isn't as helpful. But overall the more bap the better for the team.

[LorDGuilhotinA]

Hardin4188, on 09 October 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

It's been mentioned before, but it also increases sensor range and lock on speed.

dont increase lock on speed, just target information time is reduced, which is very good for brawlers and hot builds...

"everyone" was asking for more ECMs mechs, now we have it (Cataprhact, Griffin, Shadow Cat), now ppl complain about too much ECM... and its always PGI fault...

[Thorqemada]

ECM is still not balanced in a way that the cost of euipment/equipping reflects the big advantage and MM usually stacks 1 Team with ECM Mechs and let the other Team starve.

My ECM Mech despite being IS Tech (Cicada 3M) is in the recent past my most successful Mech by W/L and K/D and that has a meaning in a world of Uberquirks/Clantech...

Edited by Thorqemada, 09 October 2015 - 08:39 AM.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Well if STREAKS were OP they aren't anymore. BALANCE....

1/4 of Clan mechs have ECM....BALANCE....

[Khobai]

Quote

ECM is greatly overpowered, but it can be countered with BAP

Not really.

The problem with ECM is the long-range stealth.

Nobody EVER complained about ECM at close-range... because NOBODY in their right mind even uses missiles. Its pretty much all gauss/lasers.

Quote

"everyone" was asking for more ECMs mechs, now we have it (Cataprhact, Griffin, Shadow Cat), now ppl complain about too much ECM... and its always PGI fault...

"everyone" has also been asking for an ECM nerf for like 2 years.

ECM should only stealth the mech its directly equipped on. It should not grant aoe stealth.

Edited by Khobai, 09 October 2015 - 08:53 AM.

[Thorqemada]

A Streakcrow shattered my Battlemaster (P) almost to death when it jumped on me (it is ~40 kph faster you know) and in the end i barely killed it but had lost both Arms, 1 Leg, most Armor, the AC10, thankfully my Lasers still worked and drove it away killing it on its retreat but i was combat disabled after that.

Clan-Streaks amassed do hurt and they have a way better range than the IS-Streak2s...

PS: Well, ECM is asked to be balanced sensible since its implementation...

Edited by Thorqemada, 09 October 2015 - 08:58 AM.

[mogs01gt]

The more balancing issues we have, Lasers being OP, the more of a borefest MWO becomes. Its starting to be clear that PGI wants a FPS not a battle mech game.

BAP is not a good answer for LRMs since LRMs are fired outside of BAPs effective range. BAP + streaks is decent but ECM bubbles counters all.

Edited by mogs01gt, 09 October 2015 - 10:08 AM.

[pwnface]

tldr;

LRMS are bad mmmkay

[Golden Vulf]

Stefka Kerensky, on 08 October 2015 - 10:51 PM, said:

Yea, also I think BAP is far more useful when mounted by brawlers.
Not only they can disrupt enemy ECM while going close, but also, by doing so, they let friendly lurmer to be useful.

When an enemy ecm is close to your lurmer.... it's a bit too late... something has already gone wrong, imo.

I mount CAP on most of my clan mechs. If I've only got 1 ton left on my Timberwolf Pulse vomit, I'll take an Active Probe over a Targetting Compute I or extra heatsink, just because I think it helps my team's chances of winning so much.

How many times have you been harassed by a light with ECM and your team mates can't even send LURM support to help? CAP greatly boosts the odds in your favor of a cloud of LRMs descending down on the light jumping around all nimbly bimbly.

I don't pilot too many IS mechs, just the few I've won in challenges and a couple from Resistance 1 since I was a big fan of the Enforcer, but I don't throw BAP on to them. Maybe the 1.5 tone weight and 2 critical slots is a little much on an IS mech where the double heatsinks are 3 crits. I just never seem to find the room.

On Clan mechs though, Streak SRMs are one of our few very effective weapons, so combined with the mechs that take CAP just as filler, you see a lot of Active Probes.

Edited by Golden Vulf, 09 October 2015 - 10:29 AM.

[Lootee]

pwnface, on 09 October 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

tldr;

LRMS are bad mmmkay

LRMs (without loading on a bunch of extraneous equipment) were perfectly viable weapons in BattleTech. This game is a horrible translation of BT. Bad game is bad.

Edited by Lootee, 09 October 2015 - 10:43 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Lootee, on 09 October 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

LRMs (without loading on a bunch of extraneous equipment) were perfectly viable weapons in BattleTech. This game is a horrible translation of BT. Bad game is bad.

I think its a great game, but I don't like LRMs implementation in this game. Either way, relying on lock-on weapons is weak sauce.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 09 October 2015 - 11:19 AM.

[Golden Vulf]

Lootee, on 09 October 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

LRMs (without loading on a bunch of extraneous equipment) were perfectly viable weapons in BattleTech. This game is a horrible translation of BT. Bad game is bad.

Ahh, no, not quite. Sure they had a long range, but Battletech has cover on the map too, and the faster both the shooter and the target are moving, the harder it is to hit. And even after it hits, you roll for the number of missiles that made contact, you could roll low and have only 3 of 15 hit.

I'd say you usually had to have 1 more upgrade to make them viable, either NARC ammo or Artemis.

[Khobai]

Quote

LRMs (without loading on a bunch of extraneous equipment) were perfectly viable weapons in BattleTech

LRMs were atrociously bad in BT.

Gauss/PPCs were outright superior.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 09 October 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:

LRMs were atrociously bad in BT.

Gauss/PPCs were outright superior.

B-B-B-But then why did we diverge from the Gauss PPC meta??? That must have been the closest to TT we had ever been! As all these no doubt extremely intelligent masters of this game have said before, if we followed TT we would have a perfectly balanced game. I guess we should go back to Gauss/PPCs then, in the name of TT, because obviously a turn-based dice rolling board game translates perfectly to a tactical FPS computer game.

[STEF_]

Golden Vulf, on 09 October 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

I mount CAP on most of my clan mechs. If I've only got 1 ton left on my Timberwolf Pulse vomit, I'll take an Active Probe over a Targetting Compute I or extra heatsink, just because I think it helps my team's chances of winning so much.

How many times have you been harassed by a light with ECM and your team mates can't even send LURM support to help? CAP greatly boosts the odds in your favor of a cloud of LRMs descending down on the light jumping around all nimbly bimbly.

I don't pilot too many IS mechs, just the few I've won in challenges and a couple from Resistance 1 since I was a big fan of the Enforcer, but I don't throw BAP on to them. Maybe the 1.5 tone weight and 2 critical slots is a little much on an IS mech where the double heatsinks are 3 crits. I just never seem to find the room.

On Clan mechs though, Streak SRMs are one of our few very effective weapons, so combined with the mechs that take CAP just as filler, you see a lot of Active Probes.

Sorry, but I nor my teamates don't use lrm.
I know that I'm beating a dead horse, but any missile weapon has been so nerfed to the ground that any of them is a waste of tons.
It is fun to use, though, but ineffective, and this not only for the bunch of ecm mechs out there.
For instance it's much more useful to take an (ultra if clan)ac5 than 2(c)lrm15, because of speed, spread, cooldown... although they have the same tonnage.

The same for streak: the classic streakcrow can be useful against IS-lights, BUT it is not deadly at all facing other classis, because it spreads damage.
Instead mounting 5-6 c-mpl, you can be effective against ANY mech class, at more distance, without ammo issues, without enemy ecm issues.

Actually we have only 2 weapon classes: ballistic and energy.
Missile one is for fun.

Thank PGI

And I really wish to have all 3 good and effective.

[Lootee]

Golden Vulf, on 09 October 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

Ahh, no, not quite. Sure they had a long range, but Battletech has cover on the map too, and the faster both the shooter and the target are moving, the harder it is to hit. And even after it hits, you roll for the number of missiles that made contact, you could roll low and have only 3 of 15 hit.

I'd say you usually had to have 1 more upgrade to make them viable, either NARC ammo or Artemis.

They did damage in 5pt chunks so they were no worse than hitting an enemy with a bunch of medium lasers or AC/5s. They hit multiple locations but that's true of any weapon that used the cluster hits table. Hitting multiple locations gave you more chances of hitting the head and knocking the pilot out, or scoring a through armor critical hit so missile spread had advantages of its own. None of that made it into this game, missile spread here is pure downside with no Pros.

It was also no harder or easier to hit a target with LRMs than any other weapon that had no special modifiers to hit except when under minimum range. LRMs, gauss rifles, AC/5 and PPCs all had exactly the same chance to hit at range 18 for example.

Artemis helped but plenty of 3025 mechs and tanks with just LRMs and no LosTech enhancements did fine: Archer, Longbow, Crusader, LRM Carrier, etc...

I would just really like it if putting launchers on your mech wasn't akin to filling up that tonnage with concrete. Viable, not too powerful, not useless LRMs plz.

Stefka Kerensky, on 09 October 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

Actually we have only 2 weapon classes: ballistic and energy.
Missile one is for fun.

And I really wish to have all 3 good and effective.

This ^^.

Edited by Lootee, 09 October 2015 - 11:49 AM.

[wanderer]

Quote

LRMs were atrociously bad in BT.

Gauss/PPCs were outright superior

LRMs were middle-of-the-road in BT.

Autocannons were atrocious. They had to put in an entirely new set or two (LAC/2-5, RAC/2-5) and all kinds of new ammo types to get themselves a niche and the LB-10X was literally better in every way to it's AC/10 ancestor.

Meanwhile, LRMs keep right along into the 3150's.

[JediPanther]

I find a lrm 40 counters ecm just fine. That mech with ams? Just gave his own position away. Go lrm 40 or none.

[pwnface]

JediPanther, on 09 October 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

I find a lrm 40 counters ecm just fine. That mech with ams? Just gave his own position away. Go lrm 40 or none.

How exactly does LRM 40 counter ECM? It doesn't matter how many LRMs you are boating if you can't get a lock.

[ATodd]

You can fire LRMs fine without a lock.
Just point the recticle over the enemy, of course that requires getting LOS yourself.