21 replies to this topic

[Mordric]

When does it make the most scence to install an Active Probe, And how much does it help the team?

[Mcgral18]

<ModuleStats health="10" tons="1.5" slots="2" amountAllowed="1"/>
<BAPStats mechdetectionrange="120.0" gaintimeboost="0.25" rangeboost="0.25"/>
</Module>

<ModuleStats health="10" tons="1" slots="1" amountAllowed="1"/>
<BAPStats mechdetectionrange="150.0" gaintimeboost="0.25" rangeboost="0.25"/>
</Module>

Where it won't be destroyed easily.

How much does it actually help? Counters ECM at 240M (not listed in the code? Strange).
Lets you target shut down mechs in the above radius. Cuts down Paper Doll info time (can be brought to over 100%/instantaneous, for no real purpose, but you can do it).


I generally won't take one unless I can't fit an extra heatsink because Crit Slots.

[LT. HARDCASE]

On Clan mechs, the 1 ton 1 slot cost makes it a "why not?" addition.

IS mechs should never carry them, unless they have their own LRMs to worry about being jammed.

[El Bandito]

My Battlemasters never leave home without a BAP. At least in half the drops I have, my BAP helped the team to reveal enemy UAV hovering above, which is so damn invaluable. You would be surprised at just how many matches are decided by a well placed UAV. It also allows my 85 ton mech to farm "scouting bonus" a lot. It is not rare for my BLRs to earn extra 8-12K per match by spotting the enemies first, thanks to BAP. And when brawling, I can see the enemy's weak points faster.

Compared to that, contribution of a single DHS is miniscule. But hey, if one is playing in lowbie tier where no one bothers popping UAV or cycle lock, I guess he can leave BAP at home.

Edited by El Bandito, 11 October 2015 - 06:34 PM.

[sycocys]

It always makes sense to bring bap.

If nothing else then for the detection range boost.

It also gives you nearly effortless bonuses for countering ecm and being the first guy to target people (because of your range boost).

[CycKath]

Black Knight has certainly made me a Beagle Believer.

[Funkin Disher]

Increases detection range, allows you to detect UAVs and shutdown mechs, decreases time for data and foils ECM in a small radius to boot. Pretty neat package for 1.5 tons and 2 slots (or 1 and 1 for clan).

Its great for getting bonus cbills via scouting bonuses and also handy for crit padding locations with big weapons.

[BigBenn]

LT. HARDCASE, on 11 October 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:

On Clan mechs, the 1 ton 1 slot cost makes it a "why not?" addition.

IS mechs should never carry them, unless they have their own LRMs to worry about being jammed.

Umm... BAP is well utilized by players with gauss and ERPPC. Jsut saying'

[Whatzituyah]

Whether its Inner Sphere or Clan Bap I always put one in because why not aswell maybe a the command console could fall into the why not catagory too.

[adamts01]

One of the other big reasons is to target that ECM light that snuck up on you and let your team know you need help and quite possibly get some LRMs dropped to chase him off. Plus, in a big brawl, an ECM jamming everyone's info gathering can be huge. countering it lets you and your team target what needs to be targeted on the enemy.

[GreyNovember]

I'd argue a firestarter could take one.

You're going to fight Hellbie, Scats, anything with ECM at some point, and you will do it within your weapons range, which is also with BAP range.

May as well screw their ECM.

[adamts01]

I think a HUGE mistake that PGI is talking about making is nerfing BAP/CAP range when they nerf ECM ranges. My Cheetah is already OP and it'll be ridiculously so once I don't have to worry about streaks.

[adamts01]

GreyNovember, on 11 October 2015 - 08:32 PM, said:

I'd argue a firestarter could take one.

You're going to fight Hellbie, Scats, anything with ECM at some point, and you will do it within your weapons range, which is also with BAP range.

May as well screw their ECM.

I would never take one on my Firestarter. It's not worth it. You're giving up 10-15 kph or 3 jumpjets just to avoid a streak build (oxide, crow, shadowcat) who can counter your ECM buddy that is thankfully right next to you. That's a pretty unique situation.

[Khobai]

Quote

I think a HUGE mistake that PGI is talking about making is nerfing BAP/CAP range when they nerf ECM ranges. My Cheetah is already OP and it'll be ridiculously so once I don't have to worry about streaks.

The whole way ECM and BAP interact is moronic.

BAP is not an ECCM. BAP is a sensor suite. BAP should cut through stealth and detect ECM mechs at long range more easily. BAP should not work like counter ECM.

The whole interaction is re tarded and makes no sense at all.


I still believe they need to nerf the !@#$ out of ECM. Get rid of the aoe super stealth bubble completely. At most ECM should only stealth the mech its directly equipped on. BAP should then help you detect ECM'd mechs at long range rather than countering ECM at short range.

And obviously with an ECM nerf of that magnitude you also need to nerf indirect LRMs. Just make it so indirect LRMs are really inaccurate (like 50%-75% of them miss) unless the target is TAGGED or NARCD in which case the indirect LRMs would mostly hit.

Then ECM/LRMs are both useful but not broken, BAP is useful and its functionality makes sense, and TAG/NARC get a huge buff with regard to making indirect LRMs hit more accurately. And for the most part infowarfare and LRMs would be fixed... WHYS IT SO HARD PGI?

Edited by Khobai, 11 October 2015 - 08:54 PM.

[ArcticPrism]

BAP is an absolute must when I play something with streaks. Being unable to target something because of ECM means I can't do anything at all. It's also very handy for team members if you happen to have LRM and you can break up ECM coverage a bit. One of the nicest things is that it lets you target UAVS. That's really important because it makes them much easier for your team to spot and you can shoot them down with your own streaks. Just 1 streak 6 destroys a UAV.

[GreyNovember]

adamts01, on 11 October 2015 - 08:39 PM, said:

I would never take one on my Firestarter. It's not worth it. You're giving up 10-15 kph or 3 jumpjets just to avoid a streak build (oxide, crow, shadowcat) who can counter your ECM buddy that is thankfully right next to you. That's a pretty unique situation.

What. Streak build.

You don't NEED 3 jump jets on an FS9. You don't need to go 150.

You can jam a 280XL in with 4 MPL, take a BAP to mess with enemy ECM when you get close, which you invariably will.

Also, lol streak oxide. Good one.

[Troutmonkey]

GreyNovember, on 11 October 2015 - 09:59 PM, said:

What. Streak build. You don't NEED 3 jump jets on an FS9. You don't need to go 150. You can jam a 280XL in with 4 MPL, take a BAP to mess with enemy ECM when you get close, which you invariably will. Also, lol streak oxide. Good one.

If you're not running max engine on your lights you're probably doing it wrong

[His Holiness Pope Buster]

I would only take a Clan Active Probe or CLAP on a streak crow. In almost every other build it would make more sense to either take a bigger engine/more ammo/another heat sink etc. Even the MK 1 targeting computer would be a better option if you could spare the weight.

Edited by Buster Highman, 11 October 2015 - 10:26 PM.

[Lykaon]

My answer is take an Active probe whenever possible.

The two largest benefits the BAP brings is detecting UAVs and countering enemy ECM.

General rules are in my opinion the slower your mech the less you need it unless you are filling a command style role.

Faster target info and longer sensor ranges help to ID priority targets and reveil weakened armor locations to be targeted.

And then of course the Active Probe is part of the standard ECM tax on LRM/Streaks. If your weapon payload has loads of LRMs and/or Streaks take both a BAP and a TAG.

[Widowmaker1981]

imo, bring an active probe if:

You have LRMs / Streaks
You have an energy build, have the tonnage and cannot fit another DHS due to slot issues (and already have a TC1 if Clan)

If you have a ballistic or non streak SRM build, bring extra ammo instead of a BAP/CAP.