74 replies to this topic

[Scout Derek]

I say this as a person who is concerned for the balancing of Mechwarrior: Online, and usually, I don't get into this type of topic anyone, but the Orgins IIC brought me back into it once I began thinking about it deeply and had a talk with other fellow mechwarriors.

Reason? It's simply this:

Clan Technology and Freedom of Customization on a Battlemech.

What I fear is that with the freedom to customize, alongside clan weaponry, Clan XLs, DHS, and more that weighs less, takes up less crits, and harder to destroy could cause a uproar in the community that could result in unbalance and a loss of playerbase yet again for us.

No, I'm not getting at to nerf clan weapons, moreover to buff IS weapons, not quirk wise for mechs, but overall as equipment, reason being in that within the following months a new quirk system will come and tweak all the lowest and top mechs, such examples are the Highlander, Dragon-1N, Grid Iron, Summoner, and much more.

You could say this is a follow-up on Mcgral18's thread about Ideal Public Test Server Complete ReBalance + Iteration, which I agree on on most, if not all.

If we can't get what Mcgral's proposes, the only other way I could think of balancing the tech between clan and IS would be:

To jump a couple years ahead to receive the IS UAC 5, 10, the IS Streak 4,6, the IS LBX-AC 2,5, and 20, and other weapons, such as MRMs.

If we bump it up a few years, then IS pilots could successfully defend against clan lights, specifically the Arctic Cheetah, and then we wouldn't have to deal with pilots complaining that they can't kill a Cheetah, or, make Assaults such as the Atlas viable again.

Think about it, Atlas with a IS UAC 20? That's 2 AC/20s, that means it could compete with a Dire Wolf in terms of Damage, or a Centurion to have streak 18 and go light hunting.

EDIT:To quickly add, I'm still concerned because I read this again the other day from the Orgins IIC FAQ thread:

Quote

Q: What guarantees can be made about the balance of these Mechs?
Only that we will try to provide as fair an experience for all players, Clans and Inner Sphere alike. This may mean "nerfing" or "buffing" some weapons or adding Quirks to the 'Mechs at a later date.

So, what do you think?

Edited by Scout Derek, 12 October 2015 - 11:01 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

iic will be hilarious to watch

[Khobai]

its still all speculation

we dont know how PGI is going to balance them

for all we know theyll have tons of negative quirks

[Felicitatem Parco]

Well, let's ask... How would a current Jenner work with Clan Tech weapons and engines?

A: Better.

So... Yeah, this will be interesting.

[Scout Derek]

Khobai, on 12 October 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

its still all speculation

we dont know how PGI is going to balance them

for all we know theyll have tons of negative quirks

I'm just afraid it'll turn out just like the Arctic Cheetah on the day it was released to the day they toned it's quirks back.

I mean, who didn't think the Arctic Cheetah could take in those Pre-Nerf days?

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 12 October 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

iic will be hilarious to watch

I know Buddah, I hope they'll do a Public Test so that we can see what they can do.

If not, well, you know...

[Khobai]

Quote

Well, let's ask... How would a current Jenner work with Clan Tech weapons and engines?

A: Better.

So... Yeah, this will be interesting.

What if it has all negative quirks? While the current jenner has all positive quirks? Is it still better?

[CDLord HHGD]

I bought them, like I do everything in MWO, based on nostalgia and now they look, not how I'll perceive them playing. Everything else is inconsequential to me.

[Spleenslitta]

Have PGI announced that IIC mechs will be able to change their engine size?

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

PGI decided to bring in IIC mechs into MW:O that is still suffering balancing issues from the introduction of Clan tech.

One would assume that before doing this, they would realize the obvious imbalance this would bring. I would further assume that someone at that meeting would have said "So, this will clearly tip the scales... how are we going to balance this?" I would then even further assume that an idea or two was thrown about what to do, and a general plan was constructed as to how to reign back the obvious advantages IIC's have over other mechs.

So a more important question to ask is, "Why haven't we been told, yet?" It's not like they're new to this, or lack the foresight of potential imbalance that could come from it.

[Yellonet]

Change?

[Scout Derek]

Spleenslitta, on 12 October 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

Have PGI announced that IIC mechs will be able to change their engine size?

They have, in the FAQ.

Quote

Q: Will the Origins IIC 'Mechs be able to switch out their Engines?
A: Yes. Origins IIC 'Mechs will be able to equip any Clan Engines that are compatible with their chassis.

[Khobai]

Quote

Have PGI announced that IIC mechs will be able to change their engine size?

theyre battlemechs so they can change engine size and engine type

Quote

One would assume that before doing this, they would realize the obvious imbalance this would bring.

PGIs entire stance on balance has been to not change anything unless they absolutely have to.

And thats whats gotten them into this whole mess of having to do a complete rebalance of everything.

But until we actually see something go up on PTR we wont know how the balance problems are being addressed... we saw the sensor quirks but obviously sensor quirks alone are not gonna solve the disparity issues between IS and Clan mechs. Theres gonna have to be a clan weapon nerf coming down the pipeline or this whole rebalancing is for naught.

Edited by Khobai, 12 October 2015 - 11:17 AM.

[Scout Derek]

Yellonet, on 12 October 2015 - 11:10 AM, said:

Change?

Mhmm, don't be so negative, think about it:

Either PGI will step up to the plate, or risk losing the player base to unbalance.

Come on, think about it, instead of this one post thing saying "Change? "

I mean Yellownet, you've only been here for a few months now, and I've seen when change has become changed.

PGI and IGP used to be in this together, but then PGI bought them out, and well, now they're gone, which, in most cases was a good change, because IGP failed on "Mechwarrior: Tactics", and the playerbase was nervous on whether they were going to do the same to MWO, but once they left, the player base was much happier, even still today some are happy about that decision PGI made, but for now, that's another discussion.

Bottom Line is, elaborate on your point of your one post "Change? " a bit more, it's too vague and it seems like you just offed the entire topic.

[0bsidion]

Honestly, I'm not sure what to think. It does seem like the Jenner IIc stands a reasonable chance of being one of the better Clan lights, but the only real competition for that bracket is the ACH.

Will the Hunchie IIc be the best Clan medium though? It's got some nice benefits, sure. But those two hunches add a lot of surface area, so it's probably not going to tank like a SCrow. I'd say it might win in firepower but lag behind in durability.

The Orion IIc is based after the oft derided Orion. Yeah, it'll be able to pack a bigger engine and probably be able to bring a lot of fancy equipment along for the ride, but you're still looking at a similar body style. So I guess at worst it'll out-Orion the Orion? Not sure what a prize that'll be. But even at it's best you can bet it won't be on par with the Timberwolf.

And of course we're left with the Highlander IIc. The IS Highlander is a decent mech to be sure. The IIc will likely be in about the same boat as the Orion IIc in contrast to it's IS counterpart. I'm not expecting anything earth shattering here. Maybe competitive with the Warhawk, but that's about it.

Honestly, I don't see much to worry about. Just look at the IS versions. None of them are exactly wildly popular. The Jenner is the only one I really see shaking things up much, and maybe the Hunchback. We'll just have to wait and see, but personally I don't think they're going to wreck the game.

[Sarlic]

I personally think by adding even more balance variables (they're already doing it by each mech pack release) they're shooting in their foots each time.

It just makes the never ending circle of imbalance bigger and it will require even more time consuming adjustments, work and other things to balance the game even in the slighthest way. A reasonable balance will be further away with each pack being released.

Hence why all the vets are tired of 3 years of these on-going balance attempts. This is include balancing mechs.

So much potential is being thrown away because of inexperienced people steering the balance and management. It's terrible frustating.

Edited by Sarlic, 12 October 2015 - 12:29 PM.

[Scout Derek]

0bsidion, on 12 October 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

Honestly, I'm not sure what to think. It does seem like the Jenner IIc stands a reasonable chance of being one of the better Clan lights, but the only real competition for that bracket is the ACH.

Will the Hunchie IIc be the best Clan medium though? It's got some nice benefits, sure. But those two hunches add a lot of surface area, so it's probably not going to tank like a SCrow. I'd say it might win in firepower but lag behind in durability.

The Orion IIc is based after the oft derided Orion. Yeah, it'll be able to pack a bigger engine and probably be able to bring a lot of fancy equipment along for the ride, but you're still looking at a similar body style. So I guess at worst it'll out-Orion the Orion? Not sure what a prize that'll be. But even at it's best you can bet it won't be on par with the Timberwolf.

And of course we're left with the Highlander IIc. The IS Highlander is a decent mech to be sure. The IIc will likely be in about the same boat as the Orion IIc in contrast to it's IS counterpart. I'm not expecting anything earth shattering here. Maybe competitive with the Warhawk, but that's about it.

Honestly, I don't see much to worry about. Just look at the IS versions. None of them are exactly wildly popular. The Jenner is the only one I really see shaking things up much, and maybe the Hunchback. We'll just have to wait and see, but personally I don't think they're going to wreck the game.

To explain my viewpoint of your opinion:

The Jenner IIC will be able to go 160KPH once elited with the max engine cap of 315, that's faster than a firestarter, the Arcitc Cheetah, and most, if not all lights, save for the Commando and Locust, and on top of that, Jump Jets give it the capability to be even more maneuverable.

Hunchback IIC's hunches (Shoulder mounts) are not going to be as big as the Hunchback's hunch, and thus will have a better profile in terms when shielding a hurt side. Furthermore, the Hunchback IIC can use Jump Jets on all variants, as compared to the original. Lastly, one Variant has 4 Missile Hardpoints in all, while the most any hunchback can have is two at the most.

Orion IIC's profile may be different, as the cockpit location and torso are now significantly different.

Here's a spoiler to compare the two:

Spoiler

note that the Missile hardpoint on the Orion IIC is now in the arm, a good shield to be able to use if equipped. On top of that the Torso profile has been completely reworked, and now new hitboxes are given to it.

Lastly, the Highlander IIC will be (Like you said) not earth shattering, but still better than the original. One Variant that stands out is the Early Adopter's, with 2 UAC 10 in a arm. That means it can use the tactic of a sword and shield and thus make it effecitve in comabt.

If anything, they're a bit worrying, if not a lot.

[Weeny Machine]

"Orgins Iic: Something That'll Change Balance"

There is no balance. There are so many issues...so nothing will change

• ECM inflation
  
• LRMgeddon in the absence of ECM
  
• Laser vs. velocity weapons
  
• Huge alphas
  
• Heavies which turn like a ballerina
  
• etc etc etc

Edited by Bush Hopper, 12 October 2015 - 11:33 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Nerf clan-tech until a point that IS mechs can compete without having +50% quirks on everything.
PROBLEM SOLVED

[Sarlic]

I would like to make one thing clear though: i think we can safely say that this game is not ready yet for a 'second generation of clan tech'.

It's my opinion and i think i am not the only one if i look at our current balance, PTS and more. While we're at just over a few months away for this new technology added to a already imbalanced game.

The length of PTS and balance adjustment should have been done every two week as multiple people have stated this that it would be ideal or have a better grasp at the game balance instead of all these extreme balance passes.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Scout Derek, on 12 October 2015 - 11:03 AM, said:

I know Buddah, I hope they'll do a Public Test so that we can see what they can do.

If not, well, you know...

They cant get enough ppl to play test server lol