135 replies to this topic

[Jazzbandit1313]

Let's start off with what we see most commonly in our light lances:

1. SML or SMPL FS9's or Cheetas

2. ERLL Ravens

3. The occasional myth lynx, jenner, spider, commando, lolcust...etc.

Light piloting has become a cesspool of high alpha, low heat, fast fire rate, god hitbox mechs that will take out your rear torso in two shots. It's especially insulting when you're zoomed in and the rear damage indicator decides not to work for the moment, then you die. I am SO sick and tired of dealing with peekaboo lights that alpha torsos off in three volleys, while you desperately try to hit them in their almost non-existent legs or CT from mid range.

Here's what we need to see more of:

1. Builds that support the team by targeting, relaying information, deploying UAV's, rather than headhunting the entire round.

2. NARC's, lots and lots of NARC's.

3. TAG lasers anyone?

4. LRM5/10's for long range harassment.

5. MIXED laser loadouts.

And no, it's not that I can't hit lights. I didn't get to tier two with bad aim now did I? Yes, I've taken down my fare share of Cheetas and FS9's with assaults and heavies, but the variety of their builds is starting to dwindle. Lights aren't supposed to take as much time, armor, and damage as an assault.

PGI fix.

*Tell me how ridiculous this sounds (ACH). 6xSML. I can fire 7 alphas without overheating. 30 damage. 30x7 = 210.

210 damage while holding down the alpha button while running, and you don't shut down to get killed.....IN A LIGHT.

Forgot to mention. JJ's, ECM, And enough armor and god hitboxes to stay alive the whole round.

Edited by Jazzbandit1313, 12 October 2015 - 05:13 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Spl's are simply too good right now, and srms too bad.

LRM 5/10 lights won't happen until LRM's are fixed, which won't happen until ECM is fixed.

[Mycrus]

Tldr

I hate lights!!!1

Pgi fix.

Cool starry bra..

[John1352]

As a light pilot, I'd say that you have missed the point.

1. Holding a target lock is a perfect way to receive a giant alpha strike that kills you twice over. UAVs = losing C-Bills, in a game where the point is kind of to make them.

2. NARC pays nothing most of the time, even if it wins the game.

3. TAG lasers should be used by the LRM boat to improve performance in LOS.

4. A single AMS will render a LRM5 unable to deal damage. Need to boat LRMs to get them through the AMS.

5. I actually do use mixed lasers sometimes, but most of the time it's better to boat, just like on a heavier mech.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Those S-Laser builds are quite efficient compared to other weapon combos.

How often does one see Ballistic or SRM lights out and about compared to those Smalls builds?

Well, one thing I'd like to see is Pulse Lasers actually pulse (meaning adjusted damage, short pulses and short cooldowns), and consider some form of tracking on SRMs (and/or fewer missiles per salvo at higher velocities).

And all weapons do need to be readjusted, so that more combos can be better off.


Here's what I'd like to see tested:

Spoiler

Damage per Projectile is changed, Velocities increased, Damage per Ton increased, Ranges extended, Fire Delay on AC's, Gauss keeps Charge. LB-X is five pellets.



Ranges adjusted to Laser type, Clans reduced Range, Damage normalized, Pulses pulse!, PPCs see a new Fire Delay to be more different than Gauss.



Range adjusted, velocity adjusted, Damage per Missile increased, Missiles per salvo decreased (SRMs 4 dam each, LRMs 2.5 each), cooldowns adjusted and increased. Spread is greater on Clan variants.

Also note that: the Blue Column (after HPS) sees IS DHS at 0.4 Dissipation 2.0 Capacity, while C-DHS are 0.3 Dissipation 1.6 Capacity due to wide open customization ability.

Last two columns have needed HS and one ton ammo calculated in those values.

And such changes still leaves plenty of room for hardpoint needy variants and provides more differences with existing weapons, while hopefully boosting weaker weapons in the process.

[Bloody]

SRMs do not do enough damage for their ammo, it is a binary weapon, either you get an ideal position ie, behind a mech or you do not and you do little or no damage. Compared to Lasers SRMs are inefficient and ineffective. Solution UP ARM damage and slightly increase ammo count.

LRMs same as above plus the nerfed damage means light mechs cannot generally carry enough ammo. Same as above

NARCs do not generate damage which hurts PSR and Scores, CBills earned , because the ******* in PGI count damage as the most important team contribution. Solution , change the way cbills , scores etc are counted

TAG same as above plus the little red line marks you out, if they removed the little red line except to your team or the player or in Heat mode it would make more sense. But it would seem 20th century marking is prevalent in the 31st century. Solution , change the way cbills , scores etc are counted , also make Laser invisible except to Heat sensor and own team

Edited by Bloody, 12 October 2015 - 05:22 PM.

[El Bandito]

Role Warfare is desperately needed in MWO. Lorewise, only Lights that heavier mechs feared getting shot at were heavy-hitters such as the Hollander and the Panther. Big mechs feared TAG on a Light more than its weapons.

PGI needs to give NARC damage significant rewards, as well as spotting, scouting, hit-n-run, UAV etc... to start. And make the bloody TAG visible in heat vision only for the enemy.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 October 2015 - 11:55 PM.

[oldradagast]

Lol, another one of these laughable threads. "Light mechs are the king of the battlefield!"
Yeah, they are so "over-powered" that they are the least played weight class consistently when you look at the queue wait times. So, clearly they need to be neutered into laughable non-combat roles that involve NARC'ing things and pressing "R" a lot. That way, they won't threaten your big, bad Dire Whale which should be able to kill anything in the game, no thought required.

Thanks for the laugh!

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Focus on the two problem children and don't ask for changes that would have a profound negative effect on every other light chassis. Pop quiz time... out of these 'Mechs, which ones were designed as scouts?

Locust... yep.
Commando... yep. The 2D and 3A were also feared as fast strikers.
Spider... yep.
Urbanmech... uh. You're kidding, right?
Raven... EW support platform... although the 4X was a straight-up fighter.
Jenner... nope. Designed and built as a hunter-killer, to attack enemy 'Mechs in packs.
Panther... nope. Built as a sniper 'Mech to complement the Jenner.
Firestarter... not originally, though some variants were later re-purposed as scouts. They were built, as the name implies, to be flamer carriers.
Wolfhound... nope. Designed and built, interestingly, to hunt down and kill Jenners. With all that implies.

Mist Lynx... yep.
Kit Fox... only one scout variant; the rest were built for killing 'Mechs.
Arctic Cheetah... yep. Built to replace the MLX... but with that weapon load, it's not hard to see why it's become the Uberlight.
Jenner IIC... just the Clan version of the Jenner, built for killing 'Mechs.
Adder... sniper/fire support platform, built for killing 'Mechs.

So... why should PGI make changes that would reward light 'Mechs for indirect fire support, spotting, scouting, etc, when only a few of them were built for that purpose? Why punish the lights that were explicitly intended to be 'Mech killers? Balance the ACH and FS9, give bigger support bonuses to the support 'Mechs, but by all means keep rewarding the lights that were built as fighters for, well, fighting. We get the knobby end of the stick enough in this game already without Assault pilots crying for nerfs every time they get a laser ***** from a Zippomech or a Cheetah without once considering that other light pilots have just as many problems with them.

Would you want Catapults to be hit by general heavy-range nerfs so that Timberwolves would be less powerful? Nerf SCRs by making all mediums weaker, including the Vindicator? How about hitting Assaults with blanket nerfs to take the DWF down a peg... it's not like the Awesome drivers will mind that at all, right?

No? Bad idea? Then don't do that to the light queue.

[InspectorG]

Lights are OP until they eat a Dual Gauss.

Seriously, go play those builds, you ommited just how close you need to get to make that OP work.

FS and AC may need a quirk nerf.

The rest...dude, they dont even come close. Dont categorize all lights with FS and AC.

I Triple Dog Dare you to run a Spider-V for a while. Or any Commando. Or any Locust even the E.

Seriously if its so easy go run lights and get your Tier1.

[Troutmonkey]

The fact that only SPL boating lights are viable doesn't show that lights are overpowered.
It shows that other lights needs need some sort of buff so that other builds can be used without gimping yourself.

Playing lights often leads to quick deaths and unsatisfying matches. Lights need some buffs and need to be made more rewarding to play.

[Troutmonkey]

And as a Jenner/FS9 player, it only works if you split from your team or your team is really distracted.

Trying to engage someone with team mates backing him up is impossible and leads to an early demise.

[Alistair Winter]

Jazzbandit1313, on 12 October 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

Light piloting has become a cesspool of high alpha, low heat, fast fire rate, god hitbox mechs that will take out your rear torso in two shots.

Soooo.... just like tier 1 heavy mechs, except those can take out pretty much any component in two shots? Gotcha.

Jazzbandit1313, on 12 October 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

Here's what we need to see more of:
1. Builds that support the team by targeting, relaying information, deploying UAV's, rather than headhunting the entire round.
2. NARC's, lots and lots of NARC's.
3. TAG lasers anyone?
4. LRM5/10's for long range harassment.
5. MIXED laser loadouts.

First of all, there's no indication that PGI will ever fix LRMs. Ever. Let that sink in. If we want LRMs to be balanced properly, we basically have to wait for the next Mechwarrior game. And hope that they don't let Paul Inouye anywhere near it.

Second of all, not every light mech pilot has a fantasy about playing the second fiddle to other people's assault and heavy mechs. You know how healers are relatively rare in MMORPGs? It's because most people like to be the ones who do the killing, not the ones cheering in the background. It's just human nature.

Third, in a game where you risk dropping on teams with no LRMs, or dropping against enemy teams with 12 ECMs, building a role around information warfare (NARC, TAG, etc) is rather pointless right now. The game isn't set up for it. And Infotech won't really change this, sadly.

Fourth, playing as a support light mech (scouting, capping, spotting, etc) just isn't very fun, for most people. It's a very shallow gaming experience, much like healing in a bad MMORPG, where you're basically just clicking your teammates when you see their health drop. It gets boring after a while, as opposed to 360 no-scoping noobs in your dual gauss CTF-3D .

Jazzbandit1313, on 12 October 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

*Tell me how ridiculous this sounds (ACH). 6xSML. I can fire 7 alphas without overheating. 30 damage. 30x7 = 210.
210 damage while holding down the alpha button while running, and you don't shut down to get killed.....IN A LIGHT.
Forgot to mention. JJ's, ECM, And enough armor and god hitboxes to stay alive the whole round.

And yet, heavy mechs are still the most popular and still consistently getting the top score in most matches. Light mechs are as unpopular as ever, and most people who try to play light mechs fail miserably. Their ACH's get legged by laservomit Timber Wolves and Wubshees before they ever come close to firing those 7 alphas.

How about fixing the fact that 50-75% of the players waiting for a game are dropping in heavy mechs? You'll see the light mech queue drop to below 5% fairly often. How many times have you seen that for the heavy mech queue?

It's really weird, isn't it? Considering how massively OP the light mechs are. You'd think someone would have noticed, and started playing them by now.

[Burktross]

Information warfare is useless in an arena game. Please don't relegate us to a role that doesn't exist.

Besides, even in TT, there were great amounts of harasser lights. The Piranha comes to mind.

[Burktross]

Alistair Winter, on 12 October 2015 - 06:02 PM, said:

It's really weird, isn't it? Considering how massively OP the light mechs are. You'd think someone would have noticed, and started playing them by now.

Way i see it, Lights are to MWO as AWPs are to CSGO. Hard to master, devastating when done. Whereas Heavies are to MWO as the AK47 is to CSGO: Simple, dependable, EZ

[One Medic Army]

If lights were really so dangerous, we'd be seeing more people actually have back armor above single digits. Just saying.

[TyphonCh]

Jazzbandit1313, on 12 October 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

Let's start off with what we see most commonly in our light lances:

1. SML or SMPL FS9's or Cheetas

2. ERLL Ravens


And no, it's not that I can't hit lights. I didn't get to tier two with bad aim now did I? Yes, I've taken down my fare share of Cheetas and FS9's with assaults and heavies, but the variety of their builds is starting to dwindle.

This. Every light I target is the exact same bloody thing. ie; Whatever can boat the most lasers. It's stale. It's been this way since quirks IMO. I don't think I ever saw small lasers or small pulse until the FS9-A got a hold of it's quirks.

Reworking how Narc gives bonuses would be a good start. Narcing an enemy ecm mech would give an automatic c-bill bonus. Then on top of that every LRM or SSRM that hits that narc'd mech would reward c-bills. Having that mech die by LRM fire to get the bonus is very rare.

A tag module for 2 million c-bills to make it invisible (Like a red dot sight, not necessarily 'invisible') would be awesome too...

Lasers are just too good compared to SRMs.

Current reward system rewards damage over all else. Part of why the incessant laser lights.

Hopefully infotech is what it's fleshed out to be....

Edited by Team Chevy86, 12 October 2015 - 06:22 PM.

[Endost33L]

Also the fact that lights are the least played weight class does not have to do with how "overpowered" they are, the percentages just show what players want to play the most. Assuming that the most overpowered CLASS will be the most played one is just a weird assumption.
Many people of this game come here to play a slower "big bad robot" shooter not unreal tournament type of play that some lights offer and -it shows in the percentages of the classes played-. I may feel speed freaky sometimes and i play lights too that doesnt mean that i will choose to play them because they are overpowered.

Today i had a game that did 0 damage in my 70kph firebrand when an ACH found me near the spawn of mine collective and insta cored me from behind, i got pissed and logged off for the day. Accidents like that make people asking for balance and yes some lights need it bad. (firebrands suck right now and i wouldn't play them only if they were OP)

[FupDup]

The SPL builds tend to be high-risk-high-reward in that they require you to get really really close to get the full damage...yes you can get there "quickly" but getting there without attracting a lot of attention and/or gunfire is easier said than done. Midrange builds like, say, the 4 ERML Cheeto, are a lot more versatile, consistent, and "safe" to use.

[FupDup]

Team Chevy86, on 12 October 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

This. Every light I target is the exact same bloody thing. ie; Whatever can boat the most lasers. It's stale. It's been this way since quirks IMO. I don't think I ever saw small lasers or small pulse until the FS9-A got a hold of it's quirks.
...

Lasers are just too good compared to SRMs.

Current reward system rewards damage over all else. Part of why the incessant laser lights.

Lasers have been the go-to weapons for light mechs since the beginning of time, bro. The only exception to this rule was when we had Streaks that always hit the CT every time, in which case the light meta was ECM + Streaks (Raven 3L, Commando 2D). Quirks played zero role in this, and in fact quirks allowed two missile lights (Oxide and Huggin) to compete with laser lights.


Why do lights use lasers? Well, let's analyze the traits of lights and lasers.

Light mechs as a whole have limited tonnage, less than any other weight class to be precise.

Lasers require the least tonnage of all the weapon families and offer high efficiency for that tonnage.

Oh gee look, it's a mathematical match made in heaven. The main strength of lasers overlaps with one of the weaknesses of light mechs!

Unless the damage per ton effeciency of both ballistics and missiles were skyrocketed, lasers will always be the ideal choice on lights because they help deal with the class's main weakness (lacking tonnage for weaponry).

Edited by FupDup, 12 October 2015 - 06:36 PM.