22 replies to this topic

[maniacos]

In PUGs, especially with new players, I see the same mistakes every time. I will try to describe some tactics that I think are best practice, because nothing is more annoying than being put in a team that doesn't even know the basics of their mechs and tactics.

Your Role

1. Assaults are called assaults because they assault. That means they have big firepower and much armor but are slow and not very flexible. Assaults don't hide behind a rock until their team is dead, they gather up for a coordinated push into the enemy line to neutralize the opponent's assaults and heavies as quick as possible. MWO is a team based game, that means when you go on a lone run with your assault, you will probably die and hurt your team which loses a good amount of firepower.
Assaults go first, go together and need to be protected!

2. Heavies skirmish on the side of the assaults, providing their power for the protection of the assaults of a team and support them. Focus your fire together with the assaults and neutralize the greater threats first.

2. Mediums are more agile but lack a great amount of armor compared to assaults. That means, your place is BEHIND your heavies and assaults, preferably in the second line. Mediums can still deal a lot of damage and their main purpose is to protect their assaults and heavies, especially from enemy lights and flanks. The chances to win a match grows rapidly when the assaults still stand but an assault lance without medium support has a lot less chances to decide the match. Hence mediums that go alone into the enemy line are a waste for their team and almost always a guaranty for a lost match. Have patience, don't rush if your team is not rushing.

3. Lights are for scouting and to nag the enemy. Your purpose is to lock targets, report about flanks and mess up the fireline of the enemy by running among them and try to distract their firepower from your attack lances. Each shot the enemy tries to place on a squirrel, is spared on your assaults. You have speed, use it. Occasionally a light pilot will return to their team into the third line and watch for threats among the legs of the heavier mechs.

Basic Tactics

4. FOCUS FIRE. It makes more sense when a whole lance focuses fire on one threat than when each fires at another target. If you are not using voice and are not quick enough for text chat, just look where your team is focusing at, select the same target and eliminate. A filled red triangle means other members of your team have targeted that mech. Watch where your heavies and assaults are targeting at and support.

5. LOCK TARGETS. Locking on targets gives you information on their damage and weapons. Use this information. When you see a heavy with an open center torso beside a fresh assault with full armor, focus your whole firepower on the damaged heavy and then on the fresh assault. If you kill the assault first and the heavy still stands, he can still finish you off because the fight with the assault will have your armor damaged significantly. On the other hand, ignore stumps. Don't focus on that single mech that has ran out of ammo or lost his weapons. Kill the most damaged threat with the greatest firepower first. You might score a kill on the stump but lose the game because while sawing the stump mech down, another one would open your back or side torso.
Winning a match + kill assists eventually gives you more XP and money than losing one with 1-2 scored kills on your account.

6. NEVER FOLLOW LIGHTS. Unless you can meet with the speed of a light. A wolfpack of lights can be a huge annoyance and threat for the enemy. On the other hand if you spot a light don't hunt them, stay with your team. You can try to shoo them off but don't hunt them until the main targets of the enemy team are eliminated. Squirrel hunters die alone, always.

Edited by Jherek C, 13 October 2015 - 03:05 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

on the whole that is good advice, and is certainly a good starting point, however those are not absolute rules.

some assaults can go faster than most heavies some lights play more like mediums, some mediums play more like lights, some heavies play more like mediums, if you try to scout or harness in a slow ^{(less than 120 KPH)} light Mech ^{(UrbanMech, Kit Fox, Adder)} it will end badly they play more like underweight Mediums, the Cicada and Ice Ferret on the other hand though technically mediums are basically oversize light Mechs.

there are many situations when splitting the team or taking a different order can be a good idea, e.g. the heavier assaults like the Atlas have a lot of armor but are likely to go down inside 5 seconds if the enemy focus fire it, assaults can lead the charge but if some lighter Mechs are between it and the enemy that gives the Atlas time to close before getting focused, allowing it to bring its guns to bear and do some real damage.

use Jherek C's post as a starting point, reasonably good practice for a new player, but to not be afraid to try other things.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 13 October 2015 - 03:37 AM.

[JonahGrimm]

This is interesting to me. Perhaps more than any other game, MWO calls to those of us that recognize that the game really isn't won or lost by an individual's skill, but, rather, by the level of organization on a particular team. For those of us ensconced in the PUG's life, the level of organization that wins games isn't dramatic, it isn't deep - it can be as simple as people reacting and positioning well to a push or a single voice on comms calling a target.

The above post has some good basic advice - but I'd like to jump in and add a few things:

1) I can't speak to assaults - I don't run them well. That said, what I can tell you is that a team that supports their Assaults is the team that, generally, takes the win. That doesn't mean running next to your assaults at all times - different mechs support in different ways - but it does mean that you should always be aware where your assaults are, your assaults should be working together, and you should be doing your best to ensure your firepower is assisting with the targets your assaults are working.

That last line means a lot of different things depending on your role... but, at its most basic? Add your firepower to whatever your assault is shooting, and help it melt.

2) Heavies can also be fantastic heavy flankers, tearing apart edges or distracting enemy assaults from your own.

3) Mediums have lots and lots of roles. I tend to run 'light killers' and 'medium range artillery', but there are also medium designs focused around fast brawling (go catch stragglers and tear them apart, then get out of there before the return strike comes), long range support (set up a firing line away from the main press and distract and harass) and EWAR (bring ECM, cover approaches, move to exposed and targetted mechs). They're the hardest to classify, and impossible to deal with in very broad strokes.

The statement above, though - "Hence mediums that go alone into the enemy line are a waste for their team and almost always a guaranty for a lost match. Have patience, don't rush if your team is not rushing." - absolutely true. Mediums need to be able to stick and move, to fade into cover when they take too much attention... and know when to use their armor to act as additional shielding for heavier mechs. You're not able to lead a charge... so don't. Instead, support in the way your build and design allow.

3) Oh, man, lights. The above is kinda-sorta-mostly true? Maybe? But it doesn't really touch the scope of what a well-run light can do for a team.

At its most basic, Lights are the eyes of the team, yes. They can use their prodigious speed to get to the flanks and actually see where the enemy is at range, target things for the LRM carriers, and generally make life miserable for the enemy in the information war. They can also act as pirahna, tearing apart anyone that leaves the safety of the group... or as a jackal, cleaning up an enemy that has taken a pounding and retreating to safety. They can harrass - their 'cookie' nature generally engendering a larger response than they deserve, distracting entire lances that should be targetting heavy things - or even tear apart assaults who are left alone.

Lights are punishment for making mistakes - are you exposed? Are you by yourself? Did you overextend? A good light pilot will tear you to pieces.

4) Damnit, yes. If at all possible, shoot at what your team is shooting. It dies faster.

5) .... this is my only frustration in the game. For all that is holy, people - hit 'R'! It helps you: you know where to shoot and what damage you're doing. You'll even get to the point where you can estimate whether your next volley will kill your target, or if you should be disengaging. You'll know their weapons, what's working, and how best to twist to take on what is about to be shot at you. It helps your team: it identifies and locates the mech for them, transmits their damage state, and essentially ensures that your team will start shooting what they can at your target, and moving your way to help. It's a win all the way around - failure to target gets your team /killed/.

6) Ayup. I can't add anything to that... except, if you're built to kill lights? You are a wolf among sheep, at least until the lights die.


I always enjoy posts like this.

[maniacos]

Rogue Jedi, on 13 October 2015 - 03:37 AM, said:

use Jherek C's post as a starting point, reasonably good practice for a new player, but to not be afraid to try other things.

Yes this always. I focused my post at basic tactics, at something that probably could be a solid plan if nothing better to do is on the table. And also what you can do in many PUGs without a designated DC (drop commander). Tactics like split team often need more organisation skills but will, with a good command, often provide a good advantage over basic tactics.

And yes, of course there are variants that can also take over the role of another class, if needed and fitting.

A good DC of course will probably bring a tactic that will outplay any basic tactics.

JonahGrimm, on 13 October 2015 - 03:44 AM, said:

The above post has some good basic advice - but I'd like to jump in and add a few things:

Good additions. And what you wrote about lights is why I like piloting that class. They are flexible and bear some nasty possibilities under their [color=#000000]bonnet, especially when working in coordination with the team![/color]

[QuulDrah]

Hey, PGI, can you include this into the description of weight classes in the tutorial/academy?
this should be mandatory reading for new pilots! or at least sticky the topic...

[Speedy Plysitkos]

yep , yesterday i saw a mauler hiding as last behing a rock. uuuuu ugly.

[Jody Von Jedi]

Titannium, on 13 October 2015 - 05:00 AM, said:

yep , yesterday i saw a mauler hiding as last behing a rock. uuuuu ugly.

I saw a Direwolf hiding up on top of one of the spires on Tourmaline Desert sniping at the end of a match just last week. He had full armor. We had routed the rest of his team with minimal losses. I think we had 7 or 8 left on our team. He took 2 of us with him, but he was vastly outnumbered.

What a waste of an assault mech.

[Apnu]

JonahGrimm, on 13 October 2015 - 03:44 AM, said:

... MWO calls to those of us that recognize that the game really isn't won or lost by an individual's skill, but, rather, by the level of organization on a particular team. For those of us ensconced in the PUG's life, the level of organization that wins games isn't dramatic, it isn't deep - it can be as simple as people reacting and positioning well to a push or a single voice on comms calling a target.

This is so true. In PUG games, if nobody's calling a target, I'll do it. I find the biggest threat, call its chassis, letter designation and grid, like this "Focus Lima King Crab in Charley Four"

I even to do it when I'm dead and observing someone else.

I've turned loosing PUG matches into wins by doing this one little thing.

You don't have to be bossy on comms, and certainly being a d-bag and telling your team how much they suck is the quickest path to a loss. There's not much need to call out complicated plans and maneuvers. Just encourage everybody to stay together and focus fire. So I keep is short and simple, and PUGs seem to appreciate it.

[Xbwalker]

Apnu, on 13 October 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

This is so true. In PUG games, if nobody's calling a target, I'll do it. I find the biggest threat, call its chassis, letter designation and grid, like this "Focus Lima King Crab in Charley Four"

I even to do it when I'm dead and observing someone else.

I've turned loosing PUG matches into wins by doing this one little thing.

You don't have to be bossy on comms, and certainly being a d-bag and telling your team how much they suck is the quickest path to a loss. There's not much need to call out complicated plans and maneuvers. Just encourage everybody to stay together and focus fire. So I keep is short and simple, and PUGs seem to appreciate it.

I was considering doing the same. In the few cases where my light lance sticks with me, calling primaries basically guarantees the match. Back in my EVE days, calling primaries was a MUST when hunting together. It seems the same principle could apply to this game. I'll give it a go.

[CimaGarahau]

Nice advices but it is MWO, so there are situations/matches that last at least a view minutes and game over. Like my last one with a two man drop against 12 men premade. So good bye successful match!

[Tesunie]

Apnu, on 13 October 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

You don't have to be bossy on comms, and certainly being a d-bag and telling your team how much they suck is the quickest path to a loss. There's not much need to call out complicated plans and maneuvers. Just encourage everybody to stay together and focus fire. So I keep is short and simple, and PUGs seem to appreciate it.

As a PUG, I do have to say it's always nicer to not be called "loser team" or other such poor statements. It typically makes me NOT want to do what that person is telling me to do.

So yes. As a PUG, I'd much rather your approach, and even if I say nothing (probably because I'm busy not trying to die) it is greatly appreciated.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

I approve of the OP (like my opinion matters, but what the heck) as general newb PUG advice. These are good basics, and will serve a new player in the solo queue very well.

And a special THANKS for what you had to say on lights. I <3 that advice.

[Satan n stuff]

Tesunie, on 13 October 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

As a PUG, I do have to say it's always nicer to not be called "loser team" or other such poor statements. It typically makes me NOT want to do what that person is telling me to do.

So yes. As a PUG, I'd much rather your approach, and even if I say nothing (probably because I'm busy not trying to die) it is greatly appreciated.

Personally I never insult my team, though I'll happily troll players who take themselves a bit too seriously especially if they are insulting teammates or the enemy.

If I can identify a specific reason why a match was lost however, I will be sure to say so because there are way too many players who don't seem to learn from their mistakes at all. If I myself screwed up ( which doesn't happen all that often but I'm not exactly infallible either ) I will usually apologize. If I'm not entirely sure what happened I'll probably ask, that way maybe someone will learn something new without getting yelled at by someone who takes the game way too seriously.

As far as I'm concerned understanding why you won or lost, which moves were good and which were bad and why is just as important as actually winning especially when pugging, because there is no guarantee that you'll have an experienced commander so you want to get as much insight into the game's specific tactics as you possibly can.

[mailin]

Always lock your current target. ALWAYS.

[Rhavin]

Also remember that for the most part marching in single file in any mech is a terrible idea, stagger your order so that when an enemy rounds a corner in front of you everyone can blow it up. A key is to be in position to fire immediately without hitting your teammates in the back.

Also, if your team is going to poke war, then spread out, especially if everyone is still behind you and you are at a choke point, get through it and to new cover before your team becomes trapped behind a single piece of cover. The team that leads the game typically not only makes good decisions, but they make them quickly. Move to your cover, and let your team thru to find their own cover. Remember that if you don't want to lead a charge, don't be the first mech in line.

[FLG 01]

Tesunie, on 13 October 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

As a PUG, I do have to say it's always nicer to not be called "loser team" or other such poor statements. It typically makes me NOT want to do what that person is telling me to do.

So yes. As a PUG, I'd much rather your approach, and even if I say nothing (probably because I'm busy not trying to die) it is greatly appreciated.

QFT.

It is extremely unhelpful for noobs like me if people rudely tell me what not to do.
Tell me what to do instead. No need to sugarcoat anything, just plain neutral communicating of a plan.

Just telling "dont nascar" e.g. is utterly useless for beginners, especially if they are not American. 'What the hell is "nascar"?' was my first reaction. I got that reference by googling it later, but even though I understand it, such a call still does not tell me what to do now. Just stopping and getting shot to pieces by superior numbers is not exactly an alternative. Provide that alternative.

[InspectorG]

RULE ZERO FOR PUGS:

Good advice is great! Just dont expect others to adhere to it. Because of Dat Pug Life.

Natural Law at work. Expect nothing, stay sane.

[Wombaat72]

Thanks for this post. As a complete newb (I'm still downloading the 9gig of patch) I really do appreciate the advice even before I manage to get on. From what's written I'll make the assumption that at least to start I'll probably run a medium and hover with the pack.

I can only see pugging in my future unfortunitaly so I'm hoping to see some of these types of tactics (yes I know I'm an optimist).

Are there many players out there that take newer players under their proverbial wings or you just need to suck it up and hope for a good team?

[Rogue Jedi]

There are many players prepared to offer help,
Here is my advice,
first play the tutorial,
then play your first 25 games,
Then look for people to play with, I recomend playing PUGs for the first 25 because if you team up with someone and that player is rated higher than you you will be up against tougher opponents, while you are still learning the basics of controling the Mech you do not want to be up against high level players.

I suspect most players you see posting a lot in New Player Help would be happy to team up with you for some basic instruction, or many units (player run teams) are happy to train up new players.

[John Gun]

There is sort of a programm running in the german forum were newbies like me get a vet at his/her side covering stuff like the basics or taking us into group play with them and even cw matches, explaining tactics, giving tips about builds and so on.

Very helpfull.

I can only advice new players to take on such a chance if it is offered to you because you will learn a lot of stuff you will not really learn in the usual pug game, or it will be at least not as painfull to learn as it would be by those pug games.