31 replies to this topic

[SockSlayer]

So, I've been trying out flamers with more combos than one, and keep finding out that the enemy mech almost never overheats before you do, leaving you shutdown and probably a goner.

I'm suggesting small changes to the flamers. In MW4: Mercenaries, they were a lot friendlier to use; they fired like a laser, had a cool down, did 1 point of damage, and had 150m range.

I'm at least hoping one of the suggested changes in the poll are made, as the flamer is only a little too weak, one tiny tweak, and it would be a decent valid weapon.

Edited by Independence MK2, 18 November 2015 - 01:20 PM.

[Night Thastus]

They should just do what MWLL does. They raise the heat of an enemy 'Mech dramatically (mainly in large numbers) but if the enemy 'Mech dies, it's considered a suicide, and thus you get no kill for it. You can't just go spamming flamers, or you won't earn many C-bills. However, if you use them sparingly, you can be very effective with them. Range is short though, might be more than 90m, but not much.

[Khanublikhan]

- A flamer should raise the heat of an opponent mech.
- A mech hit by a flamer becomes flagged as hit by a flamer (no further flamer hits apply for heat purposes).
- A mech hit by a flamer suffers movement speed penalties / torso twist penalties / weapon recharge penalties, as actuators and myomers misfire.
- A flamer does damage similar to a machine gun.

[Arandmoor]

Khanublikhan, on 13 October 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

- A mech hit by a flamer suffers movement speed penalties / torso twist penalties / weapon recharge penalties, as actuators and myomers misfire.

It's a flamer. Not an EMP weapon.

[SockSlayer]

Hmm, just from the votes so far, looks my hunch was right. The flamer does need some sort of help. Although any one of these options can help, 'just increase enemy mech's heat' and 'increase max range to 180, with optimal being 90m' were my options picked.

Here are my reasons; a flamer is a flamer, not a grenade, thus damage should be little, but lots of heat given to enemy mech. Also, fire cools as range increases, but I don't think it just drops off to nothing, like the flame of a candle, blue at the bottom, yellow at the top, and still quite a bit of heat left even with no visible flame above that.

Edited by Independence MK2, 13 October 2015 - 12:59 PM.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

I think flamers could use a few more things:

- Greatly increased chance to detonate ammo (on exposed internals). Also applies to gauss, because it's treated the same way.
- Greatly increased base damage against exposed internal. Not just crits; double damage of nearly no damage is still nearly no damage.
- Increase heat damage. Right now it doesn't really do much more than tickle anyone's heat gauge who has TrueDubs to spare.

[Livaria]

The only thing I want to add, is that a flamer might need more normal damage than it does heat damage. Not towards the point where it can exceed the firepower of lasers but enough to replace the damage deficiency from equipping flamers.

Heat damage is not reliable since mechs will have ways of overcoming it; lots of heatsinks, low heat weapons,and coolant. I think Heat damage should not be the only feature of the flamer but more-so a secondary benefit.

In a nutshell: I want Flamers to have more damage overall. But I prefer normal more than heat damage

Edited by Livaria, 18 October 2015 - 10:51 PM.

[Doman Hugin]

Change it from a continuous fire weapon to one with a duration and a cooldown, that way PGI gets a lot more control over what it can and can not do.

Then start at roughly TT values and tweek untill it suits MWO. (EG, Range and damage of a small laser, heat to you and target of medium laser.) then add ghost heat so you lock yourself down before your target.

something like that should work.

Edited by Doman Hugin, 19 October 2015 - 02:38 AM.

[Hotthedd]

Give it a duration and a cooldown instead of continuous fire, like shooting a napalm grenade with a flamethrower to ignite it. That would keep the firing 'mech's heat from rising too much. Keep the heat increase to the targeted 'mech where it is, but the target should be unable to dissipate any heat while burning.

[Alstren]

Having chosen other I have to say all of the above

Flamers are laughably underpowered

[SockSlayer]

The only time I've even got a fair usage out of flamers is when I put them on an ECM mech, so that you can get close enough to hit them before they notice you, even so, kills are super rare, and almost never happen. So when I got 2 kills in one match with flamers, the enemy was already nearly destroyed, and in most matches I've done, they may shut down at the same time you do, so what good is that? Boosting the heat even a little will make them effective for their tonnage, as medium lasers do way more damage and range for the same weight.

[SockSlayer]

So far, there haven't been more votes, but most point to wanting the flamer to generate more heat than it does. I think these votes make sense, considering that flamers are for overheating enemy mechs in the first place, and not really great at killing them. Would like to see more votes and opinions on this issue.

[MarsThunder]

Increase heat given to enemy mech + switch some enemy heatsinks off temporary.

Edited by MarsThunder, 05 November 2015 - 01:44 AM.

[LiGhtningFF13]

Isn't that the case that you increase an enemie's heat scale by using flamers?!

[Vellron2005]

Wait, flamers in MWO DON'T overheat the mech?

I never use flamers, so I actually DIDN'T KNOW..

What do they do then, just base tiny damage? Do they at least damage internals or something?

Please, someone break down flamers for me as they exist now in MWO, cose' I never use them and honestly don't know..

[MarsThunder]

My guess is: flamers do tiny damage + slightly heat a mech.

Heatsinks work to lower heat of a mech.

Update: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment
- note the HPS parameter.

Edited by MarsThunder, 05 November 2015 - 05:47 AM.

[Vetal]

PGI, for god sake, repair flamers!
It has been useless for 3 years.

Edited by Vetal, 05 November 2015 - 05:56 AM.

[DailyFrankPeter]

Make it arc over cover (like in real life actually)

[Livaria]

Flamers work like this:

- They produce a continuous stream of that lightly damages a target and has and has an increased chance to crit.

- They generate heat in a a different way than conventional weapons. Flamers do not generate heat immediately upon firing, but instead subtracts a 'mechs ability to dissipate heat. The gradual removal of heat dissipation will perpetually increase the longer you use it. After a few seconds of firing, your heat gauge will start rising.

- Heat damage from flamers will decrease the heat dissipation rate of enemy mech as well but instead decreases the heat dissipation rate by the flat rate of 3 and it will stay that way unless if you add more flamers. (Despite what some people believe, the heat damage from flamers do actually stack, I've personally tested this with another player.)

- Once an enemy mech has reached 90% of their heat capacity, a flamer will no longer add additional heat.


If you want an opinion of mine. Flamers require advanced knowledge of how heat works to use properly. And when they are used appropriately (which isn't often), it's still not as reliable as other weapons because it is easily countered.

Heat damage actually works! but it can be countered if a mech uses coolant, or uses low heat weaponry. In a nutshell; the problem with flamers is that they are difficult to use, and unreliable. You had better hope that an enemy 'mech has a specific heat weakness. Otherwise you willl definitely need backup weapons.

Edited by Livaria, 05 November 2015 - 06:47 AM.

[Spleenslitta]

Many good suggestions. I agree with

ArcturusWolf, on 15 October 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

I think flamers could use a few more things:

- Greatly increased chance to detonate ammo (on exposed internals). Also applies to gauss, because it's treated the same way.
- Greatly increased base damage against exposed internal. Not just crits; double damage of nearly no damage is still nearly no damage.
- Increase heat damage. Right now it doesn't really do much more than tickle anyone's heat gauge who has TrueDubs to spare.

All this but i really want to see increased chances to detonate ammo more than anything else.
It could help put a limit on how much ammo you want to stuff into your mechs. This would make DW's with 6x UAC5 or whatever builds sweat bricks.
Set off the ammo and kaboom that section of the mech is gone.

So we might see more mixed loadout mechs since players don't want to have too much ammo.

It would also give IS players a bit of a reason to use CASE.