572 replies to this topic

[oldradagast]

Sug, on 13 October 2015 - 05:36 PM, said:

Interesting.

Insane is another way to put it. So, not having a target lock causes energy from the laser to magically fade away in space? I mean, if there's one thing this game needs, it's another non-intuitive and utterly illogical mechanic like ghost-heat! So, my PPC - which is energy - does full damage on a non-locked target, but my laser - which is also energy - does not? Sure, that makes sense... right...

Sure, this is a great way to kill laser builds by basically adding a "bug" to them so they can be "bugged" like; lousy PPC hit-reg, lousy SRM hit-reg, useless LBX's, and so on, but it doesn't really fix anything.

At least the Gauss Rifle will still work - good thing nobody uses them!

A simple, small cone of fire that tightens against locked targets would fix all this silliness of magical damage loss and high-damage pinpoint alpha strikes, AND it would make sense AND is completely within the game engine's ability since we already have it when using MASC, jump jets, and machine guns. I guess that's too simple a solution, so let's here it for "ghost damage!"

Edited by oldradagast, 14 October 2015 - 03:28 AM.

[flynia]

The 40% range nerf for Clan Lasers seems a little drastic as many other people have mentioned.

Some other ideas:-

- Why not just increase the range of IS Lasers by 20% or so?
- Decrease the range of Clan ER Large Lasers by 20% initially and then re-balance in increments as needed.
- Decrease the range of Clan ER Medium Lasers by 10% or so and then re-balance in increments as needed.
- Decrease the range of Clan Small Lasers by 10% or so and then re-balance in increments as needed.
- Allow the full ranges to be restored with a 6 mill module.

Just an idea...

Edited by flynia, 14 October 2015 - 03:56 AM.

[EAP10]

IronClaws, on 13 October 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

Mech weapons are designed to take out mechs as quickly as possible, why would anyone produce a (leathal) weapon that would do otherwise? Unless you stand still the whole game, it is rare that you will die from 2 or 3 hits.

It's still not that fun to die within three seconds of facing two mechs. That's not good for the game, and won't net us any more players.

[shopsmart]

Trying to play on the test server. Downloaded the installer, ran it, getting message of servers unergoing maintenance. Normal MWO works. Understand servers might not be up yet, but want to double check. Want to play before suggestions complaints.

[Frost Lord]

Top Leliel, on 13 October 2015 - 06:01 PM, said:

I hate to say it, but, adjusting Clan ER Lasers to such a drastically shorter range, and making Clan double heat sinks almost as bad as IS single heat sinks, is a bad idea.

The whole point of clan double heat sinks is that they are supposed to be an upgrade to Inner Sphere double heat sinks. Clans are supposed to have good tech: even if Inner Sphere gets buffed, clans shouldn't be nerfed so much that their trademark high tech stuff isn't good. Why not just make IS single heat sinks more viable by allowing the IS to take double engine heat sinks and single external heat sinks on the same mech?

The same goes for lasers, Clans having access to ER lasers of all sizes demonstrates their tech lead, why should this be taken away? Why not just handle it with quirks as before, but re-balancing mech by mech all over again with sensor range in mind this time?

Also, about sensor ranges: why not make large mechs easier to detect, rather then have them have weaker sensors? Keep all sensors generally the same except for quirks on dedicated scout mechs, but make the larger mechs detectable from a longer range because of their heavier weight? Just a thought.

they made a statment earlyer saying this isnt final so no need to worry the end rezold isnt likly to be this drastic in most cases

[QuulDrah]

Quote

The targeting reticle will no longer flash when a hit is detected on a ‘Mech that is not target-locked.

I am sure you have your reasons for that... care to enlighten us on what will happen to the recticle when an air/artillery strike hits?

l33tworks, on 14 October 2015 - 04:40 AM, said:

What people like you dont seem to get is you CANT use your eyes. Your EYES will see that you hit but as long as the server doesn't agree, it means nothing.

^this! so much this! (emphasis by me)

Edited by QuulDrah, 14 October 2015 - 04:50 AM.

[Túatha Dé Danann]

Kin3ticX, on 14 October 2015 - 01:53 AM, said:

Clan DHS have the same cooling (1.5), smaller heatcap, major difference

Its still a part of the heat efficiency. A larger heat cap means more time to overheat - which is also being used to cool yourself down. The effect multiplies. The Clan lasers already produce more heat per second and are less efficienct in terms of dps/hps ratio (with the exception of the Clan Large Pulse Laser) compared to the IS-counterpart. They outbalanced this with more range - which is cut off too now. I hope that explains my "less heat efficient" note.

Another major problem is that most "builds" are just work-arounds for stuff like Ghost-Heat and still vomit you in the face, while other perfectly valid builds are destroyed by such systems. Mechs that are designed for such a "setup" (like the Nova) are getting killed by such things and this is what bothers me. Other mechs which are terribad don't see any kind of love at all (Executioner, Mist Lynx) and the whole sensor-system looks like someone build the system out of the point of view of an LRM-player.

We have 30 different weapons in this game and we see a whole balance-pass build around LRMs with the sensor-warfare stuff. What about critical chance for ballistics if I hit a section of a mech multiple times in a row? What about unguides missiles? What about a real balance matrix for heat and damage ratios instead of guessing around because someone is afraid of using math?

[Vellron2005]

Here's another idea that might solve some balance problems..

Step 1) Introduce random salvage drops for every player. Give any player a chance that a peice of equipment will be salvageable after each match. Start at 10% chance, and increase through player skill and modules. Both Clan and IS items drop. Items range from small lasers to full empty mechs with varying degrees of drop chances.

Step 2) Allow both Clan and IS players to buy a "energy matrix conversion" upgrade (like upgrading from std to double heatsinks or ferro, endo and alike) for the steep price of 6 million cbills. This upgrade lets them equip cross technology equipment. Clans can equip IS stuff and IS can equip Clan stuff. Depending on upgrade, one mech can use only IS or only CLAN equipment.

Explain this like so: The invasion has been going on for some time. People pick stuff up and make it work on what they got.

Step 3) Open a "Black Market" where only such salvaged equipment can be sold for cbills or small amounts of MC. You sell it to the black market, and buy it from the market (at a margin). The black market has all items available, but at absurd prices if you buy cross tech (minimum double price for equipment, +50% for omnipods)

Step 4) Those that wish it equip cross technology, and stop whining about clan lasers being op. But then their hunchback must also use clan AC's.

Advance the time frame slightly to allow for cross tech but not too much.

SO there.. enjoy.

P.S.

To correct for this logically, make opposite faction mechs more expensive and available ONLY through the black market, depending on your faction affiliation.

If you are currently IS affiliated, clan mechs would be 30% more costly for you than for clan affiliated players. If you are Clan affiliated, IS mechs would be 30% more expensive for you than for IS affiliated players. If you have a permanent contract, this would simply be the way things are. Mercenaries would have to pick a contract to get prices. Free agents / unafilliated pilots would pay 30% more for all mechs untill they take on a contract.

I'm gonna repost this in the feature suggestion section also..

Edited by Vellron2005, 14 October 2015 - 05:13 AM.

[Shae Starfyre]

I find some of these changes appear to promote more teamwork; through individual concentric synergy.

Forces team work through egocentric interaction.

A very interesting approach.

Edited by Aphoticus, 14 October 2015 - 05:04 AM.

[Javin]

Perhaps just advance the time line to give IS ER Lasers and other weapons?

That way we can all get new loadouts, PGI can sell more mech packs, and one day the IS can can RACs!

I will wait to see what happens on the test server before I yell the sky is falling.

At least change is coming. Thank you PGI for at least attempting change.

[Frost Lord]

shopsmart, on 13 October 2015 - 06:28 PM, said:

I just realized with the info tech becoming more of a thing. Landslide defeats will be more land slidish. You need alive team mates to make things work for the info thing. More die results in that network falling apart. If there is 1 to 2 left on each team at the end of the round, it might just as well become a LONNNNGGGG game as the time ticks away. Something to consider PGI. I think this actually might work.

Work on the flamer...

well it will probably make land slide games faster if anything if you are a few guys down there is rarely any chance to come back unless the enamy is ****** up will probably incurage self preservation when you are banged up.

Edited by Frost Lord, 14 October 2015 - 05:07 AM.

[ARM32]

1 - sorry for my "perfect" english.
2 - u try to "balance" mechs, but it's more about pilot. On Shadowcat i'v kill our cadet in summoner, 1 vs 1...
3 - "clans" r go away from I.S. so, bullets r not totaly usefull, so they improved energy weapons and heatsinks. and u try to balance it.
4 - price of Clan mech ~= 2.5 price of I.S. same mech, but u wants them equals....
5 - as for me, u don't need to cut lasers, u needs to improve AC (reload time), UAC (jam chance), PPC (speed, damage, heat), and make heatsinks more feelable (to realy feels when u bring 1 more heatsink - increas heat from energy weapon + increas capasity of heatsinks + desperation rate to I.S and Clans). And set "heavy" lasers (same distance as pulse, more DMG, more weight, x1.5 duration(as ER version), x1.25 reload(as ER version)).

[Frost Lord]

Kael 17, on 13 October 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

Question, if PGI wanted a 3025 game, why did they not make one?

Because the alternative was to hard apparently, seems they tryed to make things easier for them selves in a few places to only find if they had put the hard work in in the firs place it would have worked out better.

Wintersdark, on 13 October 2015 - 06:45 PM, said:

lol IS regular large laser outranges clan erll >.<

well they have removed the quirks so there are no quirks to upset the balance

[DrSlamastika]

WTH is this? Lasers will be like LURMS, you need lock it, its not good . . .

[Thorqemada]

Its an idea worth to test out how Target Lock + Lasers will work out - i guess it will make other long range Weapons more popular.

And close range have Clan-Pilots begun to boat C-UAC10s and C-UAC20s and they shred, wreck, kill...and the C-UAC20 still has a range bigger than IS-Medium Laser...

Edited by Thorqemada, 14 October 2015 - 05:17 AM.

[Vellron2005]

Mopar, on 14 October 2015 - 05:09 AM, said:

So let me get this straight. You are going to cut out the clan advantage of longer range and then nurf the double heatsink system? Is there any reason any longer to even have clan mechs in the game?

Look I am not opposed to a balance but again the lore should at least get some consideration. This is Mechwarrior right and not some generic robot FPS game?

I can almost understand cutting the max range back some, thats cool. But why nerf double heatsinks? IS mechs can have them if they choose, why nerf the clans for having them by default. You do know clan mechs have built in nerfs right? They cost more in C-Bills and real cash with no special package bundles like the IS can buy. They usually have fewer hardpoints, and cannot choose to ton down to single heatsinks or remove jump jets to add weapons tonnage.

Seriously if your going to keep nerfing the clan then just take the mechs out of the game, ignore the clans and move on. If you going to throw all lore, not game mechanics, learn to tell the difference, to the side then drop the Mechwarrior name as it is false advertising and a slap in the face of Mechwarrior fans.

+1

Its what I've been saying on most of my posts in this thread..

Except don't remove clans from the game.. that would be really really bad..

Thorqemada, on 14 October 2015 - 05:16 AM, said:

Its an idea worth to test out how Target Lock + Lasers will work out - i guess it will make other long range Weapons more popular.

And close range have Clan-Pilots begun to boat C-UAC10s and C-UAC20s and they shred, wreck, kill...and the C-UAC20 still has a range bigger than IS-Medium Laser...

Have you ever tried to hit anything with a UAC20 at 500+ meters? Harder than hitting with ERPPC... and the damage is so spread its just not worth it..

If this nerf happens, I'll bet you'll be seeing 12 ERSLAS builds everywhere you turn.. and direwolves will have lights literally physically humping them..

Edited by Vellron2005, 14 October 2015 - 05:24 AM.

[Yozzman]

Weapon and targeting reticle mechanics when target is not locked

• Lasers will not do full damage when striking a ‘Mech that is not target-locked from a range greater than 60% of the Laser’s Maximum Range.

Target not locked, so my lasers do less dmg....
Sorry no logic behind this one.

I could understand that dmg would be more spread out because of less focus. But less dmg no...

Edited by Yozzman, 14 October 2015 - 05:28 AM.

[Memnon Valerius Thrax]

i like this patch rly.

Bring it on and give him a Chance.

[Frost Lord]

The Atlas Overlord, on 13 October 2015 - 07:23 PM, said:

1) To promote teamwork. Awesome IMO.

2) We've tried LoreWarrior: Online with OP clan mechs. It sucks. Time to fix the game.

well we kinda tried it, we had op clans but didn't really try giving the IS more numbers.

[PunisherMark]

Stop all this BS and just make both sides the same. For Fi#cks sake they have already destroyed much of Battletech.

Clan weapons always have better range and more hit. Just stop with all this leveling BS.

Take away the Battletech/Mechwarrior name from them and call the game "Big Stompy Machines".