127 replies to this topic

[Illya Ghost Bear]

Kira Onime, on 13 October 2015 - 06:39 PM, said:

"Lasers will not do full damage when striking a ‘Mech that is not target-locked from a range greater than 60% of the Laser’s Maximum Range."


Quick math. C-ML in PTS will have a 243m range.
According to that last statement, if I don't have a red dorito for the enemy and I don't lock onto it, the C-ML will drop in damage past 243m.

I'm sorry but what the ****? Lasers are too stupid that they'll not do all their damage if there's not a red square around the enemy?

Let's not forget my targeting reticle won't flash red if enemy not targeted as well.

Stupid is the only thing that comes to mind on these 2 specific changes,

cool. They are obviously testing an idea. Whether or no we see even the half of it atm, or it sticks will probably depend on data gathered by the PTS.

So let's actually test the damn thing instead of whining?

""The exact changes detailed further in this post should not be taken as the entirety of what the final re-balance will entail, nor are the changes listed here necessarily ‘locked in’ for any final release.
The end-goal of these public test sessions are to work toward a complete re-balance of the game’s core combat systems."

Edited by Illya Arkhipova, 13 October 2015 - 06:48 PM.

[sycocys]

Clan ML --MAX-- range is currently 810m. Even after they chop that down to something normal, the 60% range is still going to be well in excess of 300m because that non-lock thing was based on its max range.

Edited by sycocys, 13 October 2015 - 06:46 PM.

[Goose]

Kira Onime, on 13 October 2015 - 06:23 PM, said:

But didn't you know? Lasers need a red box to increase their damage otherwise they're too stupid to know they're hitting an enemy.

As a quick and dirty way to test "convergence requires lock-on," I approve …

[Illya Ghost Bear]

Tarogato, on 13 October 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

* yes, I know they removed delayed convergence in beta because reasons, but seriously... it's been three years. Fix your crap, give us interesting game mechanics that we can really see with our eyes.

they've stated time and again it doesn't work with HSR.

[Kira Onime]

Can we also mention how no reticle flash is terribly unfriendly to new players?

[Illya Ghost Bear]

For now, we simply want you to experience these changes, test the values, and monitor our progress as we work toward our goals of a) re-balancing the ‘Mechs across the board, and effectively integrating Information and Role-based Warfare mechanics into MechWarrior Online.

[badaa]

i like where this is going

[MoonUnitBeta]

Johnny Z, on 13 October 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

I think BAP and some of the modules increase sensor range and acquire.

Taking none damage tonnage is a good thing. Doing damage in this game isnt a problem at the moment.

It doesn't matter if you can detect a mech at 5000kms and acquire his data in half a millisecond. If they're under ECM and are X meters away, you can't target them. Thus, you do less damage (not specified), if you can't target a mech that's 60% of the maximum range. (that is unclear. What is max range?
Medium Laser: 60% of 270m(full damage) = 162m, Something like this:


or...
Medium Laser: 60% of 540m(the farthest it'll reach) = 324m (which is already past 270m, so it's doing less damage anyways. Does this mean it'll do even less damage at ranges outside nominal, such as a secondary linear reduction past 324m? Something like this?)


While it does put emphasis on bringing such modules to take full advantage of the weapons system, it is an indirect buff to the ECM suite. Making snipers and LRM support more favorable. Thus you should bring a tag.

For instance, (going by the example that maximum range is the range it deals most damage) you're carrying a Medium Laser, with a nominal range of 270m, you can't target the ECM covered mech at 250m. Even though they're within the range of your weapon to deal full damage, you do less damage because they're in ECM and your BAP can't reach them. So now you need to bring a Tag to take them out of ECM, then you also need to target them, and then fire your weapon just so you can do full damage.
That is just to point out some of the non-sense if PGI is going by that range.

However, if they go by the furthest range that the weapon can reach, ECM is still getting a damage reduction buff, and more so to their advantage the further away they are, and depending on how much the reduction is, being 751m away (outside of Tag's reach) could render a Larger Laser useless. As if ECM didn't do enough already.

I'm curious what range the 60% is for, and what the reduction is. That will be something I'll try to heavily test.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 13 October 2015 - 08:51 PM.

[orcrist86]

Kira Onime, on 13 October 2015 - 06:47 PM, said:

Can we also mention how no reticle flash is terribly unfriendly to new players?

Reticle flash and shape change for locked targets only, the shake change is going to help color blind players

[Darlith]

MoonUnitBeta, on 13 October 2015 - 06:49 PM, said:

It doesn't matter if you can detect a mech at 5000kms and acquire his data in half a millisecond. If they're under ECM and are X meters away, you can't target them. Thus, you do less damage (not specified), if you can't target a mech that's 60% of the maximum range. (that is unclear. What is max range?
Medium Laser: 270m(full damage) - 60% = 108m, or.
Medium Laser: 540-60% = 324m (which is already past 270m, so it's doing less damage anyways)

While it does put emphasis on bringing such modules to take full advantage of the weapons system, it is an indirect buff to the ECM suite. Making snipers and LRM support more favorable. Thus you should bring a tag.

For instance, you're carrying a Medium Laser, with a nominal range of 270m, you can't target the ECM covered mech at 250m. Even though they're within the range of your weapon to deal full damage, you do less damage because they're in ECM and your BAP can't reach them. So now you need to bring a Tag to take them out of ECM, then you also need to target them, and then fire your weapon just so you can do full damage.

I'm curious what range the 60% is for, and what the reduction is.

Then you will be happy to note you can target under ECM with this test.

2) ECM no longer prevents target-lock altogether; it simply delays the time it takes for an enemy to achieve target-lock on a 'Mech within ECM radius.

[Troutmonkey]

Darlith, on 13 October 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

I'm not sure how I feel about the "No target = no flash" thing, on the one hand I suppose it makes sense. But on the other most shooting games show you when you hit, it is a staple of the genre. I'm going to miss snapping off a fast ppc shot and knowing if it hit or not.

Yeah I really don't like that. Since they've made a new "You're locked and dealt damage" cursor animation they should keep the red flash for non-locked damage. Being in Australia and having average ping that sort of feedback is really required.

[El Bandito]

MoonUnitBeta, on 13 October 2015 - 06:32 PM, said:

Basically, laser boats need to take a Tag now, or everyone just switch to ballistics.
Once again ECM gets a buff, and now it grants damage reduction.

Hellbringer new king of the battlefield?

[Burktross]

I don't know, I'm hopeful. Maybe this will make brawling come alive again?

Troutmonkey, on 13 October 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

Yeah I really don't like that. Since they've made a new "You're locked and dealt damage" cursor animation they should keep the red flash for non-locked damage. Being in Australia and having average ping that sort of feedback is really required.

I also enjoy my hitmarker

[MoonUnitBeta]

Darlith, on 13 October 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

Then you will be happy to note you can target under ECM with this test.

2) ECM no longer prevents target-lock altogether; it simply delays the time it takes for an enemy to achieve target-lock on a 'Mech within ECM radius.

Yeah, but my example is about being outside of ECM...
That change should have been in since day 1, it's a welcome change though.

[Darlith]

MoonUnitBeta, on 13 October 2015 - 06:59 PM, said:

Yeah, but my example is about being outside of ECM...
That change should have been in since day 1, it's a welcome change though.

Yeah, with the way it is written I took it to mean at any targetable range. Maybe they only meant when the ECM mech is within 90m of you.

[MoonUnitBeta]

El Bandito, on 13 October 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

Hellbringer new king of the battlefield?

Shhh!

[Accused]

I don't know, it's like they don't listen.

Give us real double heatsinks (2.0) and let us blowup when our heat hits the top of the bar.

Make ECM into a proper Guardian ECM.

Increase the time for convergence (quirk that stuff/etc)

Allow targeting information to be shared only with those equipped with a C3.

Stop trying to balance everything so everything is like everything else - mediocre. Clans should have laser range (nerf the max damage or something else like that, etc), Highlanders should be doing DFA's, etc.

[Whatzituyah]

El Bandito, on 13 October 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

Hellbringer new king of the battlefield?

Direwolf all Daka no wub?

[MoonUnitBeta]

Darlith, on 13 October 2015 - 07:01 PM, said:

Yeah, with the way it is written I took it to mean at any targetable range. Maybe they only meant when the ECM mech is within 90m of you.

Ah, yeah. they say "radius" so I can only assume that means the 90m. *Shrug* who knows at this point lol.
I thought that if you were within a certain range you could still target mechs covered by ECM, but targeting the ECM carrier was a different story. It's nice to know you can target them now.
I think they're nerfing players who don't (or can't) target mechs too harshly.
As someone said, they removed the hit-reg indicator on non-target-locked mechs...

[Illya Ghost Bear]

MoonUnitBeta, on 13 October 2015 - 07:05 PM, said:

Ah, yeah. they say "radius" so I can only assume that means the 90m. *Shrug* who knows at this point lol.
I thought that if you were within a certain range you could still target mechs covered by ECM, but targeting the ECM carrier was a different story. It's nice to know you can target them now.
I think they're nerfing players who don't (or can't) target mechs too harshly.
As someone said, they removed the hit-reg indicator on non-target-locked mechs...

It might not work, but it's pretty obvious that it's meant to effect snapshot, group focus fire.