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Pts Range Thing Isn't As Bad As Some Make It Out To Be


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#1 sycocys

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:24 PM

Also posted in the PTS forums but no one else has been posting/discussing much there yet.
Long story short - ranges might be a little over done - but the mechanic WILL make information and teamwork a very valuable part of the game.

Also the mechanic doesn't buff ecm - or kill small laser lights in any shape or form. Target + full range is instant you just can't be lazy with small lasers.

View Postsycocys, on 14 October 2015 - 03:21 PM, said:

Paul has some diagrams that are useful as well.

Here's the basic rundown.


1. The PTS notes were wrong unfortunately - its 60% of normal optimal range, not beyond maximum.

2. What you will see on your weapons without lock is the 60% range. So at least you will know where you non-locked damage starts to drop off from.

3. When you target - but not aimed on your target - it doesn't change from this stills shows the new range. Good say if you were spotting and fighting someone else, quick looks shows where you need to be.

4a. Nominal range updates when you point on your target.
4b. If you are pointing at you intended target and hit R (or let it auto scan) it IMMEDIATELY changes to the lasers full nominal range.

That mean no waiting for info delay before you can put full power at your usual ranges.

I didn't see an ecm mech in training grounds yet, but for now I'm assuming this mechanic will not change for them, just concerning how long it takes to acquire their data and a lock.

---
My thoughts after running through training with a couple mechs.

This is actually pretty neat and will get rid a lot of the spray and play action from the super long ranges. That is until a scout pushes up a little bit and shares your target back to them. Really I think this will work wonders in that way to kind of force some roles into the game, and more importantly for teamwork and better play.

The ranges... Hmm I get it. it will really up the ante and force players to either do the scouting thing or play on the edge and get right in there so they can set themselves up. Possibly a bit overdone, but its better to start this out on the deep end and work back up than try to go the other way.


#2 oldradagast

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:29 PM

View Postsycocys, on 14 October 2015 - 03:24 PM, said:

Also posted in the PTS forums but no one else has been posting/discussing much there yet.
Long story short - ranges might be a little over done - but the mechanic WILL make information and teamwork a very valuable part of the game.

Also the mechanic doesn't buff ecm - or kill small laser lights in any shape or form. Target + full range is instant you just can't be lazy with small lasers.


Ummm... you do realize that in the next iteration of this trainwreck, targeting speed will not be 0. Imagine how much fun it will be to have your damage nerfed for no good reason as you eat yet another Gauss round with "balanced" written on the side of it because you were trying to get a lock? And I'm sure light mechs really needed the nerf since now they'll need to stand there and target a foe to get full damage... right.

Edited by oldradagast, 14 October 2015 - 03:29 PM.


#3 FupDup

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:30 PM

You're right, it's not as bad as some make it out to be...it's worse! :P

#4 ColourfulConfetti

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:32 PM

The Shadowcat and Cicada are going to be beast snipers after this balance pass. Hell anything with ECM and speed is going to wreck face. That ecm makes for kickass poke mechs.

Edited by PalmaRoma, 14 October 2015 - 03:32 PM.


#5 Monkey Lover

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:34 PM

View PostPalmaRoma, on 14 October 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

The Shadowcat and Cicada are going to be beast snipers after this balance pass. Hell anything with ECM and speed is going to wreck face. That ecm makes for kickass poke mechs.

Ecm sure doesnt seam to matter much anymore if everyone can still spot you by a red box :)

#6 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:35 PM

Yeah, people aren't realizing that at 500-600m, it can take seconds to actually get a lock (even as the game is implemented live now). Guess what. That dual Gauss mech is going to have no problem taking the free shot on you and then getting back behind cover. Dual ER PPC - Gauss Timber will love it. Same with Dual ER PPC - Gauss Dire Wolf. Say, I wonder if a Dire can lumber out of cover, knock you a 50 pt PPFLD alpha from 700m away, and then lumber back, before your assault mech can acquire a lock to return fire.

View PostMonkey Lover, on 14 October 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

Ecm sure doesnt seam to matter much anymore if everyone can still spot you by a red box :)


ECM provides a +3 second target delay. More than enough time to poke, fire and get back into cover.

#7 sycocys

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:38 PM

View Postoldradagast, on 14 October 2015 - 03:29 PM, said:


Ummm... you do realize that in the next iteration of this trainwreck, targeting speed will not be 0. Imagine how much fun it will be to have your damage nerfed for no good reason as you eat yet another Gauss round with "balanced" written on the side of it because you were trying to get a lock? And I'm sure light mechs really needed the nerf since now they'll need to stand there and target a foe to get full damage... right.

Yes, and its going to make things like CC, Bap and the Target gathering info much more useful - as well as sharing targets with your team, possibly even more so than all of that.

It's quite a lot of fun, and adds a good amount of additional depth to your approach to targets I found after playing a match.

#8 sycocys

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:44 PM

I can totally understand disliking the initial range settings. It very well could be too much, but it seriously works for bringing back the laser vomit.

It will be interesting to see what they come up with concerning ballistics and ppcs as well. Especially guass because of its high rate of speed and range.

#9 FupDup

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:46 PM

View Postsycocys, on 14 October 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

...but it seriously works for bringing back the laser vomit.
...

This is the exact mentality that's the problem.

You're basically saying that the end justifies the means, that you will support absolutely ANY change that reduces laser effectiveness, regardless of whether or not the change makes sense.

#10 Kraftwerkedup

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:46 PM

If we can mount CCs and TCs to get rid of the effects...maaaaybe ill live with it.

Otherwise its a right trash idea first of all, and badly implemented at that. Goes waaaay overboard, and on weapons that it doesnt need it...like Small lasers?

66 meter small lasers?

Come the hell on.

#11 Troutmonkey

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:46 PM

So ECM doesn't stop your Dorito for 3 seconds? Just the lock?
That's a shame.

Also poking lights will still have a hard time if the enemy has ECM, as they'll have to poke, wait 3 seconds for locks, and then fire if they want to do more than 2 damage.

#12 Kraftwerkedup

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:48 PM

Or bring PPCs...

Is the Gauss Raven going to make a triumphant comeback? lol

#13 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:49 PM

View PostKraftwerkedup, on 14 October 2015 - 03:48 PM, said:

Or bring PPCs...

Is the Gauss Raven going to make a triumphant comeback? lol


ER PPC Gauss Timber probably will!

#14 InRev

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:49 PM

View PostFupDup, on 14 October 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:

This is the exact mentality that's the problem.

You're basically saying that the end justifies the means, that you will support absolutely ANY change that reduces laser effectiveness, regardless of whether or not the change makes sense.


And regardless of the collateral damage. Timber Wolves, Stormcrows, Dire Whales and Ebon Jags can switch their primary weapons (yay omnipods!) if the meta switches to a gauss + ppc one again.

Locusts, on the other hand, cannot. So, as usual, the good mechs stay good while the IS trash gets trashier.

#15 sycocys

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:50 PM

You don't have to lock to get your full damage.

Just target, and as far as I could tell that was instant even against ECM. Getting his info took a few seconds. Hitting R was an immediate option and gave me full range.

#16 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:51 PM

View Postsycocys, on 14 October 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

You don't have to lock to get your full damage.

Just target, and as far as I could tell that was instant even against ECM. Getting his info took a few seconds. Hitting R was an immediate option and gave me full range.


Wait, can you confirm that against the mech with ECM, you get full range as soon as you hit R? Because that changes a lot.

#17 sycocys

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:52 PM

So what I'm saying based on the run I had, so long as you are in sensor range... not much is going to change other than Clans have shorter max laser range.

Target - full range whether you have acquired the info or not.

My light mech was 100% fine. I could pop a corner, target a Hellbringer and immediately fire for full damage then retreat to repeat.

#18 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:53 PM

View Postsycocys, on 14 October 2015 - 03:52 PM, said:

So what I'm saying based on the run I had, so long as you are in sensor range... not much is going to change other than Clans have shorter max laser range.

Target - full range whether you have acquired the info or not.

My light mech was 100% fine. I could pop a corner, target a Hellbringer and immediately fire for full damage then retreat to repeat.


Okay, if that is the case, then ECM is just about ******* useless now. lol

#19 sycocys

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:56 PM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 14 October 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:


Wait, can you confirm that against the mech with ECM, you get full range as soon as you hit R? Because that changes a lot.

Yes - worked exactly like that. There is no delay once you hit R, you have full range on that target and ECM didn't delay that at all.

Dropping again - only modules I'm adding are the MPL ones. No mech modules and I don't have bap on the DK. Let you know after it finds me another match.

#20 cSand

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:57 PM

Making BAP, or TC and CC mitigate the "no-lock-range-decrease" would be a great addition

Also, I can smell a module for this coming a mile away





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