26 replies to this topic

[Airmikee]

MWO is old, dying, and just no fun anymore. Hawken is not a stompy robot game, it's COD-Obesity mechanics. Am I stuck playing Mechwarrior 3 and 4 or is there another good game involving stompy robots?

[sycocys]

Looking at what they might have coming with the balance changes, MWo is going to be a fair bit different in a few months.

But yes - there is Heavy Gear Assault. Or if you have consoles - Front Mission, Armored Core, and a bunch of Gundam/anime styled mech games.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Before MWO last proper stompy (none of this glidy animu crap like gundam or armored core) was... uh... steel batallion maybe?

Heavy gear is gonna end up being fairly arcady (and the mechs all have roller skates) so... unless there's a new project coming along that I'm unaware of... nothing properly stompy is coming soon.

[Triskelion]

sycocys, on 14 October 2015 - 01:59 PM, said:

Looking at what they might have coming with the balance changes, MWo is going to be a fair bit different in a few months.

But yes - there is Heavy Gear Assault. Or if you have consoles - Front Mission, Armored Core, and a bunch of Gundam/anime styled mech games.

Gundam mech games are pretty few and far between unless you like re-skinned dynasty warriors. Front Mission: Evolved is disgustingly terrible, so you're better off playing the originals.

Armored core has been slowly dying as FROM has been getting much more money from Dark Souls. Chromehounds (also from FROM) has no online servers left. It actually remains to be seen if AC6 is even going to happen. I've played all of the more recent ones and it's not a surprise to anyone that they have no idea how to make one anymore. AC5 was terrible, and introduced this wonky mechanic where all upgraded weapons had different stats, resulting in random ammo-empty times and non-uniform projectile velocity across otherwise identical weapons. It was dumb.

Verdict Day tried to solve this, and was pretty unsuccessful. It brought back something like the war from Chromehounds, but in a stupid way. Maps were not location specific, in a game that had enough maps to make that work. It was dumb. Not to mention the claimed "speed and scale reduction that would make cover more worthwhile" only made it harder to play with anything but the most optimized rifle-style weapons, and led to a really stale game within around 4 weeks. Oh, and weapons were rock-paper-scissors style when it came to damage type. What a shocker.

Why can't we have huge maps with enough variation in major features that we don't have to be patronized with optimized cover? Why can't we have mechs scaled appropriately with our environment (which admittedly even AC broke pretty badly)? Why can't we have a large variety of weapons that still manage to accomplish niche roles, and why don't we punish all-rounders enough to make them choices based on some other constraint, like mass or remaining weapon slots (based on game, I grant)?


Mech games have been in a sad place for a while. Nobody understands how to get the scale right, or make modularity interesting enough. On the off chance that they do, they short on the basic shooter mechanics and it all feels absurdly clunky.

[Triskelion]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 14 October 2015 - 02:23 PM, said:

Before MWO last proper stompy (none of this glidy animu crap like gundam or armored core) was... uh... steel batallion maybe?

Heavy gear is gonna end up being fairly arcady (and the mechs all have roller skates) so... unless there's a new project coming along that I'm unaware of... nothing properly stompy is coming soon.

Heavy gear looks like a weird evolution of Front Mission and maybe a bit of Exteel, but it's far and a way too arcady for my tastes.

I actually quite loved Exteel, but it's arcady-ness was balanced by it's own internal logic. It was more like Gundam-arcady, and that's a bit better in my book.


Oh, and I've seen something teased recently that looks like actual Exteel 2. I'll let you know if I can find anything on it. I'm pretty psyched though. They've taken a lot of cues from older Armored Cores, and I've always wanted something like that for PC.

Oh right, there is M.A.V..

It's steam early access, but it's a one-man rebirth of chromehounds. I actually used to deal with the dude doing it on an old forum. All power to him, I might pick it up at some point just to help support it.

It's pretty early though.

[Death Proof]

I've been keeping on eye on this project...

www.voxmachinae.com

If you have an Oculus Rift, their demo is a lot of 1st person mech sim fun. It's a pretty short demo...but worth the download.

[Airmikee]

Well at least it looks like there is some promising stompiness in development.

I'm just afraid it won't be until PGI loses the license and someone else is given the MechWarrior reins before another stompy game can reach the levels set by MechWarrior's 2-4.

[Mister Blastman]

Elite Dangerous! The ships are bigger than 'mechs. I have a quad railgun 400 ton pirate ship that has two heavy chainguns, shields and can travel 1000x the speed of light by folding space.

Screw robots.

[Hollow Earth]

Is Hawken still alive? i like it's fast Quake/Unreal twich gameplay but it's HORRIBLE map design really kept me off that game. like that Bazaar map where one side gets a serious advantage from the map design. though the mechs aren't really stompy.

There is also Heavy Gear Assault coming out. looks promising but i don't know much about it. other then it's like VOTOMS or something

Now unless there is a game where you play as Imperial Knights in the 40k universe ( i know it exists but it's for mobile), looks like the Mechwarrior series is the only one that has big stompy robots.

[Airmikee]

Hawken is still around, a new dev bought the IP, but it's still not stompy robotness, it's just a regular FPS with slower, lethargic movement.

[RaptorRage]

Regarding Heavy Gear Assault, it is not going to be "arcadey" as seems to often be the perception. The faster pace of the game doesn't have a bearing on its complexity. Compared to the usual MechWarrior PC game setup since MW2 where the Mechs have 9 armor locations, internal damage transfer towards the center torso and variations of legging where one or both legs being destroyed kills the Mech, in HGA the Gears currently have around 23 external armor locations and around 14 internal skeleton and engine locations that can be individually damaged and blown off. If a Gear is immobilized from a leg being blown off it can still fight and move from the grounded position.

The pilot can bail from the Gear, run over and get a new ride from base or in the field. A Gear can pick up hand held weapons from downed targets or teammates, and if an arm is blown off carrying a single handed weapon, the remaining usable arm could pick that weapon up and keep fighting, or equip another stored handheld weapon. Gears also have mounted support weapons systems on the shoulders and engine, and can equip melee and thrown weapons.

Regarding Gear movement, they are powered by a V-Engine that uses various combustible fuels, and the fuel powers the generators and pumps on top of the engine that provide electrical and hydraulic resources to operate the Gear. The fuel also is directly consumed by jump jets if equipped. The hydraulics power walking, regular jumping and dodging, and each of these actions consume an amount of hydraulic pressure that replenishes while the pumps are operational. So a Gear can hop a few times and consume hydraulic pressure each time, and if the hydraulic pressure is depleted from continuous use, those actions cannot be performed until the pressure rises again. The Secondary Movement System (SMS) are usually wheels or tracks in the feet that provide increased speed on smooth terrain, and run on electrical power from the generators.

If the armored cylinders on top of the engine that house the pumps and generators are damaged or if one is destroyed, they reduce the rate of hydraulic and electrical resource replenishment. If both are destroyed, they can no longer replenish those resources and the Gear has a short distance of movement available for walking and SMS using the remaining stored resources before they can no longer travel. Likewise if the fuel runs out or if the fuel tank is blown off and the reserve fuel is depleted, the generators and pumps stop functioning and the result is the same, stopping mobility. If the engine is blown off the Gear is knocked over and incapacitated, but the pilot can still bail.

That's just a very basic overview of Gear operations not even going into the various weapon types and equipment, and the maps themselves having dynamic envorinmental effects and hazards that alter the flow of gameplay. I hope it can go a short way towards dispelling arcade twitch shooter perceptions that the game has received since being unvieled.

Edited by RaptorRage, 14 October 2015 - 08:52 PM.

[Anjian]

Heavy Gear Assault feels quite tactical, which is something missing in MWO. In fact its hard to remember when a robot game is ever tactical since Heavy Gear 2 and Chromehounds.

Hidetaka Miyazaki of FromSoft, who directed Dark Souls 1, III, Bloodbourne as well as Armored Core 4 and 4Answer, had mentioned he wanted to go back to the Armored Core franchise with a brand new beginning.

Toshifumi Nabeshima, producer of Armored Core V and Verdict Day, and Chromehounds, have moved to Square Enix for a new Front Mission revival.

[Anjian]

If you want a game involving huge machines with huge guns smashing each other to bits, plenty of fires, sparks and the ugly sound of crunching metal, but not necessarily robots or stomping on land, I would recommend World of Warships.

Edited by Anjian, 14 October 2015 - 10:12 PM.

[Anjian]

Last April, War Thunder had all week April Fool's event where they brought out mechs that look like AT-AT walkers with Soviet tank turrets, and you can take out those mechs and fight each other and against player tanks while being subjected to player aerial attack. I find it remarkable for something done for the first time and as an April Fool's joke, they got the look, the walk, the feel and the sound of an ugly stomping mech right.

[Anjian]

sycocys, on 14 October 2015 - 01:59 PM, said:

Looking at what they might have coming with the balance changes, MWo is going to be a fair bit different in a few months.

But yes - there is Heavy Gear Assault. Or if you have consoles - Front Mission, Armored Core, and a bunch of Gundam/anime styled mech games.

MWO is barely recognizable as Mechwarrior or Battletech anymore.

[LeucippusK]

I've played mech 2,3,4 and LL all online. This is the best version by far.

[Anjian]

Marack Drock, on 15 October 2015 - 05:40 AM, said:

A quadruple post..... don't think you could have kept it all together into one could you eh?

Also this game is quite decent now. Its nothing special but at least it is working now.

I don't think the game is decent at all. It has made many steps forward, but a few major steps backwards. Quirks, WOT style modules, these are things that don't belong in the Battletech universe but are greatly affecting the game today. These guys cannot stop aping Wargaming's F2P grind devices. Around the time when the Phoenix Pack was first introduced, PGI did a great job in polishing off intensive laser alphas and PPC alphas, and this was the best time of the game where it was most balanced. The result of quirks and modules, laser vomit alphas are back in a big way, undermining at least a year and a half of balancing (the early game was also laser vomit intensive and PGI worked hard to reduce that). The TTK is the lowest ever, games are lasting 3 to 5 minutes with no depth at all. That is not a good situation for a PvP game, that is pretty cancerous.

Edited by Anjian, 15 October 2015 - 10:42 PM.

[Anarcho]

I will just drop this here:

[Anjian]

Marack Drock, on 17 October 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

Laser vomit will always be in though. Just saying. It has always been popular and always will just become people barely have to aim with a laser to hit something, and they get infinite shots. No matter what it will always be popular especially amongst newbs.

It makes for bad play because it gives the easiest the most reward. This is when other games are rewarding the means with the most difficulty and the most risk with the most reward. This theme is fundamental to the success of EVE Online for example and the games of Wargaming.

A short TTK also makes the robot feel a lot less like a giant armored robot and instead more of a thin one out of paper. There is considerable loss of immersion.

Add the no geniune role warfare, immense and useless ground clutter that snags feet, the poor atmospheric filtering and bad light conditions of the maps, and the constantly bad enviromental hitboxes. The differences of playing MWO and then moving to another game within minutes is striking in the way the visibility clears up in the eyes.

[EmyLightsaber]

There's always Mechwarrior: Living Legends. Up to those interested on how to get there.