285 replies to this topic

[DAYLEET]

Im loving this change. Boaters who Brawl will be unaffected but wont be the be all end all they are today. Now if we can do that to srm ssrm too so we can buff them a bit without making boaters op.

[FupDup]

DAYLEET, on 14 October 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

Im loving this change. Boaters who Brawl will be unaffected but wont be the be all end all they are today. Now if we can do that to srm ssrm too so we can buff them a bit without making boaters op.

What SSRMs need is to have some kind of manual tracking/aiming system instead of flying to random hitbox locations, not Ghost Damage.

[DAYLEET]

FupDup, on 14 October 2015 - 06:08 PM, said:

What SSRMs need is to have some kind of manual tracking/aiming system instead of flying to random hitbox locations, not Ghost Damage.

That would add more facetime, nail in the cofin for ssrm unless you boat crazy like clanners can do.

[FupDup]

DAYLEET, on 14 October 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

That would add more facetime, nail in the cofin for ssrm unless you boat crazy like clanners can do.

It could possibly work as a fire-and-forget system where you just have to aim at the desired hitbox for a split moment, and then the missiles will make their attempt to hit that location (might be intercepted by torso twisting or w/e).

[Otto Cannon]

Well I for one am not going to slag Paul off for actually trying something. It was leaving obviously broken mechanics unaddressed for months or years that was the problem- now that he's actually making changes we should at least be constructive and try to help fix the game we all play.

I think I can see the idea with this now anyway. Provided they get all the variables right it should be interesting.

It might make getting your own locks with LRM mechs more necessary since your sensors will be better than brawlers. You can also be assisted by scouts like Ravens with good fast targeting which makes the role slightly less useless.

If you're sniping then weapons which require lead will be less unattractive in comparison to lasers. Gauss will still be sniping king as it's supposed to be for the weight and limited ammo.

Brawlers would have the choice to either ignore locks and load up on short range wrecking weapons without subtlety, or invest in extra gear to get a faster damage readout.

The devil is in the details though. If values are out and they don't get sorted out quickly this time, we'll be back to limping along with a small group of best meta mechs with the same couple of weapons. Either way people are going to moan about having to learn and adapt to new playing conditions.

[MischiefSC]

FupDup, on 14 October 2015 - 05:43 PM, said:

There have actually been several "mixed build" metas before, such as PPCs + ACs and Lasers + Gauss...yes those are in fact mixed builds. They aren't the kind of bracket builds that give TT players romantic feelings in their heart and a tight sensation in their pants, but they are in fact "mixed" builds.

Frankenbuilds with like 6+ weapon groups will never be effective because they attempt to be good at everything but end up being good at nothing. This cannot be fixed without random Ghost mechanics everywhere, because even TT itself saw mechs built with a specific purpose beating out the mechs with derpy things like AC/2 + LL + SL + Flamer + SRM2 + LRM15.


The tone in which you're saying "weapons with tradeoffs" makes it sound like the "angry parent watching over your shoulder 24/7" type. As in, your "choice" is between whether you want to get punched in the stomach or kicked in the shin, making it a lose-lose situation. In other words, beating people over the head with sticks as opposed to offering them carrots.

We've already seen that play out countless times, and you were here for all of those times so you should know. When you try to play whackamole by using the "stick" method, the mole pokes his head up through a different hole. You nerf his Autocannons, he uses Gauss. You nerf his PPCs, he boats lasers. You nerf his Highlanders, he uses Victors. You nerf his Clan ERLL, he uses Clan LPL. Etc.

You know that's not what I'm talking about. Currently though on pts I might out-trade your tw laser vomit with ppcs or ballistics. Especially if you stay at range. 500m is suddenly a bad place for cermls. The laser vomit tw is now a brawling build. Gauss plus cermls isn't near the synergy it used to be.

They still work, just not nearly as effecrively. That's the whole point. It's not "done" by any stretch but it's a better direction than blanket stat nerfs.

[InRev]

Yet another observation from the PTS:

When a deathball pushes into you, the last thing you want to have to worry about is cycling through the targets until you get the one you actually want to shoot at in order to do full damage, especially when they are moving in front of and behind each other constantly. This is just a pain in the ass. "Is it Alpha? Nope. Bravo? Nope. Charlie? LOCK THE GODDAMN MECH I AM SHOOTING FFS"

This affects short-ranged lasers (IS small and medium beams and pulses, and Clan small beams and pulses) much more than the heavier equipment. Not good.

[Fate 6]

FupDup, on 14 October 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

Ghost Damage is now fully operational.

Holy **** it's actually happening

[FupDup]

Fate 6, on 14 October 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

Holy **** it's actually happening

[Ultimax]

InRev, on 14 October 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

Yet another observation from the PTS:

When a deathball pushes into you, the last thing you want to have to worry about is cycling through the targets until you get the one you actually want to shoot at in order to do full damage, especially when they are moving in front of and behind each other constantly. This is just a pain in the ass. "Is it Alpha? Nope. Bravo? Nope. Charlie? LOCK THE GODDAMN MECH I AM SHOOTING FFS"

This affects short-ranged lasers (IS small and medium beams and pulses, and Clan small beams and pulses) much more than the heavier equipment. Not good.

Pretty much.

Don't worry we will get target assist or shared lock mechanics probably sometime in 2017.

[Mazzyplz]

so IS lasers weren't hit; nice - there was some misinformation lying around

Monkey Lover, on 14 October 2015 - 02:59 PM, said:

I like it

[Lightfoot]

And this won't affect the number of ECM mechs in a match. I think it means ECM-only actually.

[Alan Davion]

Hans Von Lohman, on 14 October 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

I agree. The ECM nerfs are the biggest change in the whole PTS, yet people are fixating on the lasers getting a partial nerf.

With less ECM, getting a lock is going to be easy. You just hit R, and nothing has changed (well, ok, they did nerf Clan maximum range).

Even the crosshair flashing only when you have a lock is getting more attention than ECM. I would have thought ECM would be the focus of everyone's attention, but it just goes to show how people react to nerfs.

They do that in any game that gets a nerf, though. Just look at Counter-Strike Go and changing a Sub-machine gun from 1.3 damage per bullet to 1.28, and people flip out. MWO isn't any different.

I don't like personal attacks on PGI employees, though. That clearly shows what sort of person you really are, and those people should be warned by moderators, or have their posting privileges taken away for a while. If you tried that stuff on Wargaming forums for World of Warships (and assuming World of Tanks as well), they delete your post in no time. I don't get why PGI is so lenient on this sort of thing. Bello-Russians don't take guff from anybody.

No offense, but you'd have an easier time herding cats. For as long as people have been playing this game, and they've seen the constant, often ridiculous mistakes that PGI has made trying to balance this game, it kind of stands to reason they'd flip out.

They keep making this game more and more ludicrously over-complicated. Wipe the slate clean and start the F over. A proper heat scale will remedy so many issues in one fell swoop. No more ghost heat, no more super alpha strikes, so many more mixed builds.

And if anything, the ECM range reduction will cause more people to run ECM mechs. You think there are too few diverse builds in the game right now? Boy you're in for a shock cause your argument pretty much just went out the window. Only thing we need now is an ECM capable Clan Assault and we can rename the game ECMWarrior Online.

Lightfoot, on 14 October 2015 - 06:45 PM, said:

And this won't affect the number of ECM mechs in a match. I think it means ECM-only actually.

I beg to differ. See above.

Edited by Alan Davion, 14 October 2015 - 07:01 PM.

[Scurry]

This looks like their attempt to address the issue several brought up during PTS1: that infotech is pointless because it doesn't affect ability to kill a mech.

So this is what they put in. Any infotech changes will now directly affect laser ranges/damage. UAVs/scouting become even more important. Heck, even NARC pods will be handy for long range fights. That was what people were clamoring for, eh?

I give a little credit for listening to feedback. However, if implemented, a lot of work will need to be done to ensure it doesn't become too confusing to new players.

On the PPC/Gauss note - to be honest, I don't see how they can be balanced against lasers at long ranges. One will always be either over or underpowered. The Gauss rifle was always addressed as a near-OP weapon in the lore, I believe. Anyways, if you nerf one, people will gravitate to the other.

Even on long-range builds (take the following with a grain of salt) - the Timby runs hot with 2ERPPC+Gauss. Dires will always be dangerous whether they're using laserGauss or ERPPC Gauss. Stormcrows with ERPPC and Gauss will seem a tad undergunned. Hellbringers face a similar problem with tonnage. Even EBJs will run kinda hot.

Edit: And another thing - we need better controls for targeting if PGI wants to make this a reality. As it is, targeting is a bit wonky.

Edited by Scurry, 14 October 2015 - 07:00 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

new players will just learn the system the way it is; they won't be confused because they didn't know how it used to be.

Scurry, on 14 October 2015 - 06:58 PM, said:

Edit: And another thing - we need better controls for targeting if PGI wants to make this a reality. As it is, targeting is a bit wonky.

+1

great point there

[Ohmlink]

I personally think a COF would be a better change for dealing with damage output in general. As long as I can place every bit of damage into a single spot I feel the armor system in general will be broken. Currently you can one shot certain mechs simply because of that.

Ideally alpha strikes would be regulated to brawling only for the most part. The trick there is to decided at what range you can consider brawling.

A heat system adjustment is also in order but for some of that to be done I think the heat on ACs would need to be looked at.

[stealthraccoon]

I think I will make sure I make a hasty judgement before I actually log in to the test server and actually play the game with the changes in place.

I think it would be better if I personally insulted the people I asked to change the game to fix the things I don't like about it.

I am going to declare this mandated change to be the absolute death of this game - I will now wipe my hard drive and obliterate the email associated with my account.



Whaaaaah

/end sarcasm

It's like there was a sale on extra-tight panties and y'all had a two-for-one coupon!

Edited by stealthraccoon, 14 October 2015 - 07:28 PM.

[FupDup]

stealthraccoon, on 14 October 2015 - 07:26 PM, said:

It's like there was a sale on extra-tight panties and y'all had a two-for-one coupon!

I'm more of a thong kind of guy.

[Mcgral18]

Mazzyplz, on 14 October 2015 - 06:39 PM, said:

so IS lasers weren't hit; nice - there was some misinformation lying around

You mean the 40% Extended range nerf? No, not hit by that.

By the 40% Optimal range nerf? They most certainly were:

[Gas Guzzler]

Don't have to worry about any of this with ER PPCs and Gauss Rifles! Yay for Mech variety!

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 14 October 2015 - 08:00 PM.