27 replies to this topic

[Commander Harrison]

So possibly the max range of Clan lasers will be reduced by 40%. On top of that Clan heat sink capacity may also be reduced.

The question is then what happens to the Nova (which is already presently not all that great)? Less range for it's primary weapon that already causes it to shut down after only 3-4 shots, and with nerfed heatsinks, it may take even fewer shots to shutdown in the future.

Another thought is with these changes, will Laser vomit Clan Mechs even still be attractive to play compared to IS counterparts? Not only will it not have longer range lasers anymore (a Clan ER laser will have similar range to IS normal laser?), it will also not have the flexibility of changing engines or changing armor/internal structure.

If I currently pilot a Nova-Prime, I may in the future be better off with a Sparky.

Edited by Aleksis Kaidonovsky, 14 October 2015 - 04:47 PM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

I blend ACs with small lasers on my Nova and I spend 90% of my time in it. Needless to say my small lasers are significantly less reliable in battle now, and are next to downright crap,

Don't like to be a reactionary, but if this stuff hit's live then I'm outa here, and I'm probably one of PGIs biggest financial contributors atm too :/

[50 50]

Don't forget this is only part of the balance.

[Lily from animove]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 14 October 2015 - 05:35 PM, said:

I blend ACs with small lasers on my Nova and I spend 90% of my time in it. Needless to say my small lasers are significantly less reliable in battle now, and are next to downright crap,

Don't like to be a reactionary, but if this stuff hit's live then I'm outa here, and I'm probably one of PGIs biggest financial contributors atm too :/

Me too, PGI is doing the SAME **** AGAIN:

balancing weapons, which is not going to balance mechs, MECHS differ too much, not the tech.

The Nova is a energy boat, now it less range, same heat, less heatcapacity, slightly better heatdissipation by a forgetable deree, AND it has to lock targets properly to do full damage on lasers. Which with its geometry is beyond what a Nova Pilot is allowed to do: stand in the open.

GG, this patch is for Gauss, PPC's and AC's. and all mechs relying on Lasers because they ahrdpoint don't allow you proper other builds are buried now. BB ferret, BB MLX.

50 50, on 14 October 2015 - 05:56 PM, said:

Don't forget this is only part of the balance.

And? without knowing the "other part" any feedback is pointless and since PGI never showed that they actually seem to go for chassis balance instead do "across the baord" balances I doubt the other parts will finally bring the balance thats needed.

The bets part about this is, they said its about "heat efficiency" and with reducing clanlaser ranges and reducing heatsink capacity they just ruined a few mechs while others do NOT CARE about this change. and guess what, the DWF is not on the caring side, it just keeps spamming ballistics.

PGI failed to analyse again what this means for specific individual mechs and how this change truly affects them.

[Night Thastus]

I think the ER laser reduction thing is fine, but small lasers in general need a buff.

Give IS smalls and Clan Smalls immunity from that 60% of max range decreased damage mechanic, and perhaps a little boost to range.

Right now smalls are just terrible. :c

[Omi_]

If ends up being good flavour for the game, maybe the Nova could get laser range quirks, once we're at that stage.

[MCVs]

I know its off topic here but what happened to the "Mech Re-scale" poll? by that I mean Nova was actually the top among all others in that poll and its nearly 3 months already and we haven't heard from the PGI about this?

Is that poll going to waste again? Are the PGIs making us expect a change for naught?
And they are going to implement another changes when they have yet to fulfill their previous poll?
Come on PGI do your jobs well and listen to the users... not just your ideas

[50 50]

I actually thought it made little difference to Nova.
The overall reduction in laser range is more noticeable on the large laser variants, which are not so great to use on the Nova.
The difference at the small laser end of the scale is negligible. It's a change of about 50m in maximum range and about the same if you don't have a lock, but at that range it's still well within your maximum and you are likely to be close enough it doesn't make a difference anyway.
Plus, if you don't have another mech already locked, you only need to blink in the direction of the mech you want to shoot at and you get the target anyway.
If anything, the slightly quicker heat reduction was more noticeable.
With only the default engine and chassis heat sinks loaded (no extras) it seemed to get rid of the heat quite efficiently on Caustic Valley.

What we are really seeing is a few balancing ideas being tested, reduction in laser range, ECM and the heat sinks, but it's really a second stage to the information warfare aspects to see how some of these new sensor mechanics can apply to the weapons.
Haven't had a chance to test the LRMs or Streaks for their lock on vs ECM, but the laser changes and sensor ranges are pretty good.
As this test has nothing for PPCs, Gauss or AC/LBx there is no point testing those weapons.

I think we can expect some other weapon rebalances to come into testing later and then at some point mech specific adjustments.

@MCVs
I am interested to hear more about that as well.
The Nova next to the crab feels like you are sitting in an Assault mech.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

50 50, on 15 October 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

I actually thought it made little difference to Nova.
The overall reduction in laser range is more noticeable on the large laser variants, which are not so great to use on the Nova.
The difference at the small laser end of the scale is negligible. It's a change of about 50m in maximum range and about the same if you don't have a lock, but at that range it's still well within your maximum and you are likely to be close enough it doesn't make a difference anyway.
Plus, if you don't have another mech already locked, you only need to blink in the direction of the mech you want to shoot at and you get the target anyway.
If anything, the slightly quicker heat reduction was more noticeable.
With only the default engine and chassis heat sinks loaded (no extras) it seemed to get rid of the heat quite efficiently on Caustic Valley.

What we are really seeing is a few balancing ideas being tested, reduction in laser range, ECM and the heat sinks, but it's really a second stage to the information warfare aspects to see how some of these new sensor mechanics can apply to the weapons.
Haven't had a chance to test the LRMs or Streaks for their lock on vs ECM, but the laser changes and sensor ranges are pretty good.
As this test has nothing for PPCs, Gauss or AC/LBx there is no point testing those weapons.

I think we can expect some other weapon rebalances to come into testing later and then at some point mech specific adjustments.

@MCVs
I am interested to hear more about that as well.
The Nova next to the crab feels like you are sitting in an Assault mech.

Max range reduction brings smalls down by 80 meters (320m from 400m). then in turn, the unlcoked damage drops off significantly from 192 meters if PGIs written statement is true; I'm not sure it is though based on the weird range value changes that you can observe on the PTS testing grounds if you aim at a mech you havn't targeted.

Trust me as someone who mains a Small Laser/Small Pulse Laser Nova 90% of the time and drops in it at least 5 times a day. I could tell a significant difference in combat. You would think that since they are small lasers that range wouldn't matter. But in certain situations it can be life or death if you've got some modest reach.

Smalls were Never OP, they don't need this sortof treatment. IS smalls in turn need some serious love. If you're concerned about the cheetah using smalls, address the cheetah, not the weapon system that is modest on every single other chassis.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 15 October 2015 - 05:38 PM.

[50 50]

It's a reasonable enough drop but it has added an interesting dynamic and balance to it.
There are some suggestions out there to look at scaling the decreased maximum range and the unlocked optimal range according to the individual weapons so I guess we wait and see what transpires.
There has been some good feed back.

What is quite interesting to look at is how that reduction in maximum range has meant that the optimal range is no longer half of the maximum. But without the lock, it is a bit under.
So the ER Small is:
Current (Live)
Optimal range: 200m
Maximum Range: 400m
Test Server
Optimal range with lock: 200m
Optimal Range no lock: 120m
Maximum range: 320m

Had it been a straight decrease the Optimal range would have been 160m.... right in the middle.
It might be too much of a drop, but it is an interesting dynamic to introduce to the game play.
I didn't try out any modules or targeting computers with it, but those bonuses push out those ranges again so it will be interesting to see if the modules and/or targeting computers are also adjusted.

Edited by 50 50, 15 October 2015 - 07:19 PM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

50 50, on 15 October 2015 - 07:18 PM, said:

It's a reasonable enough drop but it has added an interesting dynamic and balance to it.
There are some suggestions out there to look at scaling the decreased maximum range and the unlocked optimal range according to the individual weapons so I guess we wait and see what transpires.
There has been some good feed back.

What is quite interesting to look at is how that reduction in maximum range has meant that the optimal range is no longer half of the maximum. But without the lock, it is a bit under.
So the ER Small is:
Current (Live)
Optimal range: 200m
Maximum Range: 400m
Test Server
Optimal range with lock: 200m
Optimal Range no lock: 120m
Maximum range: 320m

Had it been a straight decrease the Optimal range would have been 160m.... right in the middle.
It might be too much of a drop, but it is an interesting dynamic to introduce to the game play.
I didn't try out any modules or targeting computers with it, but those bonuses push out those ranges again so it will be interesting to see if the modules and/or targeting computers are also adjusted.

Small lasers just don't need that kind-of heavy nerfage. They weren't the meta nor were they a problem; they didn't need the nerfbat's love in the first place.

[50 50]

Fair enough point.
It will be interesting to see what further changes are made to the weapons and what they do with this feedback.

[Zoan]

50 50, on 15 October 2015 - 07:18 PM, said:

I didn't try out any modules or targeting computers with it, but those bonuses push out those ranges again so it will be interesting to see if the modules and/or targeting computers are also adjusted.

I run 10 ER smalls and mg's. With TC-IV and ER small range buff:

Unlock optimal: 138m
Locked optimal: 231m

It seems like for small lasers at least, if you are dumping weight and space into a TC, you should get a better buff to optimal range. +18m is not much at all.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Happy days and sunshine, laser lock is canned, the Nova yet lives!

[50 50]

The difference in the PTS3 pass with the targeting was quite interesting.
Could really see a difference with the sensor ranges and target retention.

@Jack
I read somewhere that there was some changes to the ranges for the small lasers but not sure where I saw that.
Has the target lock been ditched entirely now?
I actually thought it was an interesting idea if you now also take into consideration the target acquisition vs profile and other features.

I would not be surprised if some mechs get different modifiers to the default optimum, locked and maximum ranges as well.
That would be quite interesting.

[Widowmaker1981]

Doesn't really matter. If PGI don't unlock most of the Omni restrictions (at the very least ES / FF) then the Hunchback IIC is going to 100% obsolete the Nova in every single way. Higher weapon mounts and ~6 more tons to play with (assuming only 1 or 2 JJs)

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Widowmaker1981, on 12 November 2015 - 02:27 AM, said:

Doesn't really matter. If PGI don't unlock most of the Omni restrictions (at the very least ES / FF) then the Hunchback IIC is going to 100% obsolete the Nova in every single way. Higher weapon mounts and ~6 more tons to play with (assuming only 1 or 2 JJs)

No it isn't. The only thing the Hunchie IIC and Nova have in common is that they are 50 tons and can mount JJs. Nova can fit 6 lasers in one arm and still have a lower arm actuator. Only other mech that can do that is the skillcrow I believe, and it has no jump jets.

Hunchie is gonna be a wicked duel gauss mech, but a properly built Nova can kill a Timber Wolf in a 1v1 brawl.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

And like that, the latest live patch has destroyed the Nova again. The new hit-boxes draw nearly all fire to your side torsos now. They managed to make the thing even less survivable. I spoke to Russ and he said they were going to discuss it internally today. If you happen to like this chassis, please try out the new hitboxes and tell Russ what you think on the live patch feedback page and on twitter(probably the best way)!

Russ's twitter is: @russ_bullock

Let's keep the Nova alive!

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 18 November 2015 - 10:00 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 18 November 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

And like that, the latest live patch has destroyed the Nova again. The new hit-boxes draw nearly all fire to your side torsos now. They managed to make the thing even less survivable. I spoke to Russ and he said they were going to discuss it internally today. If you happen to like this chassis, please try out the new hitboxes and tell Russ what you think on the live patch feedback page and on twitter(probably the best way)! Russ's twitter is: @russ_bullock Let's keep the Nova alive!

Oh did they? wow god, I told that already ages ago. PGI just doe snto listened to those palyers that know the issues of MWO, instead listen to whoever talks the most nonsense. Thats why we seem to get these changes.

every hitbox on the NVA is easy to hit, just adjusting hitboxes just changed NOTHING
Keep the old hitboxes and just buff the HP properly. No hitbox change every will help the NVA unless it totally changes the NVA from not looking like an NVA anymore.

TBH I lost the faith in the balance attemps because obviously PGI seems not to be able even on the theoretical level what a change will cause. And therefore they fail in the desing already. And when the player come and then play the mechs to what is most efficient, then well, you see how it ends.

Edited by Lily from animove, 25 November 2015 - 04:21 AM.

[Jesushupfer]

The Nova might be a big chunky glass cannon, but i still like it. In my (allmost) Stock Nova-Prime i have an allmost as high damage per match value (>480) as my Warhawk, Hellbringer and Timberwolf. It is by no means a bad mech if you know how to use it properly.

I expect it to be quirked again after the laserrange nerf as its main purpose is beeing a laserboat.