396 replies to this topic

[Damion Sparhawk]

I'm going to hell...

[Buck Rogers]

Damascas, on 09 July 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

I asked you to compare it to a mech of the same class, what is wrong with that and why are you acting asinine?

In order to showcase the mech speed versus weapons range issue, I compared a light urban warfare mech with limited speed with an medium urban warfare mech with limited range. That's a completely fair, and logical.

What use would come from comparing the urbanmech to a vastly faster commando or jenner...? Other than just showing how darn slow the Urbanmech is, which we already know.

Edited by Buck Rogers, 09 July 2012 - 05:52 PM.

[Sidra]

Damion Sparhawk, on 09 July 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

I'm going to hell...

Ahhahahahhahahah! xD

[Tincan Nightmare]

Necrodemus, on 09 July 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

Q.) Why?
A.) Options...

Q.) Why Not?
A.) Haters & Whiners...

LOL like people whining for a certain mech type for pages and pages and pages. I hope they put as many mechs in the game as possible, I'd love to see every design from the TRO's. However if we are going to have a limited number of mechs at launch, I would rather see a design in the game in the light slot with far more utility than the Urbanmech, like the Panther or Wolfhound, especially if we only start with 16 chassis or so.

[Damascas]

Buck Rogers, on 09 July 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

In order to showcase the mech speed versus weapons range issue, I compared a light urban warfare mech with limited speed with an medium urban warfare mech with limited range. That's a completely fair, and logical.

What use would come from comparing the urbanmech to a vastly faster commando or jenner...? Other than just showing how darn slow the Urbanmech is, which we already know.

I guess though the urbie still lost, the hunchback weighs more, got to the target first, hit harder, and has a better chance of surving the trip there with its armor. So why use the urbie when I could use a hunchback that is better in literally every way?

[Buck Rogers]

Damascas, on 09 July 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

I guess though the urbie still lost, the hunchback weighs more, got to the target first, hit harder, and has a better chance of surving the trip there with its armor. So why use the urbie when I could use a hunchback that is better in literally every way?

The point was the 15 second difference in-game between two mechs with similar combat roles wouldn't be such a huge game breaker, not that the Hunchback isn't better in literally every way .

For that matter, an Atlas is better than the Hunchback in literally every way . Queue the "Why wouldn't everyone just go Assault?" threads.

[Damion Sparhawk]

Sidra, on 09 July 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Okay seriously just had this idea, A "Urban"mech, with gold teeth, gold chains and air jordans xD

[Damascas]

Buck Rogers, on 09 July 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

The point was the 15 second difference in-game between two mechs with similar combat roles wouldn't be such a huge game breaker, not that the Hunchback isn't better in literally every way .

For that matter, an Atlas is better than the Hunchback in literally every way . Queue the "Why wouldn't everyone just go Assault?" threads.

The hunchback is faster and can escape the atlas, most mechs could catch an urbie walking backwards,

[Sidra]

Damion Sparhawk, on 09 July 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

You sir, are nothing but pure win <3 "Urban" mech

[Adm Awesome]

[Buck Rogers]

Damascas, on 09 July 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

The hunchback is faster and can escape the atlas, most mechs could catch an urbie walking backwards,

We can do this all day... If they ever throw in the Victor, which, loadout wise, is basically a Super Hunchback with jump jets, more ammo, and the same speed, it would really make the Hunchback look stupid, if you ascribe to the "this other heavier mech can do it better so why bother?" argument...

[Damascas]

Buck Rogers, on 09 July 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

We can do this all day... If they ever throw in the Victor, which, loadout wise, is basically a Super Hunchback with jump jets, more ammo, and the same speed, it would really make the Hunchback look stupid, if you ascribe to the &quot;this other heavier mech can do it better so why bother?&quot; argument...

Modules or whatever those class specific little bonus things are called. The hunchback could still use the ones relevant to it's weight class while scout modules would not aid the urbie since it would die on first contact with the enemy and not be able to do any scouting. The urbie would die to anything it could not outgun in an instant and anything it outguns is far faster than it, it loses pretty much 100% of the time unless it can snipe a headcap with its first shot.

The whole victor thing is also irrelevant anyway given that it is not in the game and is a support mech and as you pointed out we are apparently only comparing urban combat mechs.

[Adm Awesome]

You guys really caused me to get a warning, I hate you all.

EDIT: I'll just blame it all on UrbanMech.

Edited by Adm Awesome, 09 July 2012 - 06:37 PM.

[Buck Rogers]

Damascas, on 09 July 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

Modules or whatever those class specific little bonus things are called. The hunchback could still use the ones relevant to it's weight class while scout modules would not aid the urbie since it would die on first contact with the enemy and not be able to do any scouting. The urbie would die to anything it could not outgun in an instant and anything it outguns is far faster than it, it loses pretty much 100% of the time unless it can snipe a headcap with its first shot.

The whole victor thing is also irrelevant anyway given that it is not in the game and is a support mech and as you pointed out we are apparently only comparing urban combat mechs.

What do you mean by classes? Tonnage classes, light/medium/heavy/assault? Or role classes of Scout/Brawler/Fire Support?

'Cause the role classes aren't weight specific. An 80 ton Charger is a scout, for instance.

As for what the Urbanmech could or could not take down, it all comes down to if it hits or not. If it can land its AC-10 shells, then the Raven, Jenner, and Cicada are all way less armored than it, and if the Urbanmech can land its shots, the AC-10 will punch through their armor in most instances, whereas their medium lasers will not punch through the Urbanmechs armor in most instances. If it can land its shots or not in MWO I have no idea. I haven't played it and I'm not sure how they're implementing hit probability at speed and whatnot.

And the Victor has the same armament as the Hunchback, save the addition of an SRM-4. It's just too similar to the Hunchback not to be compared to it. Again, that's if you ascribe to the "this other mech can do it better so why bother?" argument, which I don't. If there is no reason not to go for the heaviest mech in its combat role, why not brawl with a 100 ton Atlas, do urban combat with an 80 ton Victor, scout with an 80 ton charger, etc.

Edited by Buck Rogers, 09 July 2012 - 07:08 PM.

[Damascas]

The victor is not even in the game, the urbie could win against another light but never catch one, every mech, even an atlas outruns an urbie so tell me this, what would you do if you saw an atlas coming at you while you were in an urbie and it was about to get you in lrm range? You know what, let's make this fun, if any mech except another light was coming at you, what would you do?

Edited by Damascas, 09 July 2012 - 07:16 PM.

[Mattrixx]

Someone threw around the word line mech. So are other light mechs line mechs then just not the Urbie?

Also many of you point out how slow the Urbie is or fast the other mechs are to it. Question, how much armor does your leg(s) have? If the leg(s) of your so much faster mech gets shot up, are you still faster? No, wait let me quess. The Urbie would not hit your legs because you would shoot him first with your fast light mech? So, if the Urbie has the range on you and you are still outside your guns but the Urbie is shooting already at you (especially if you swap for longer ranged weapons on the Urbie), possibly even from cover if it has decided to hide and wait for you to come to it since you want that joke Urbie kill?

We can throw around as many scenarios here as you wish. Problem is that not me, not you, not any of you (barring beta testers and they are under NDA) know fully totally well how the in-game mechanics and action truly works yet. And until you do most of the debate of "urbie is totally useless because it is for urban warfare specific" against "Urbie fills a niche and is canon etc." should not be get you all too excited about it all. At least not until you know better what the in-game stuff does and is.

Do not forget also that some players like to do the unexpected. Like sneak behind you and shoot you in the back (or legs or even your precious weapons hard points). Not everyone will just run towards you and hope to find you face-to-face and duke it out.
Yes, the urbie will be slow and would take a while to get anywhere.

Also throwing around saying this or that mech is better when half the mechs or their variants (that seem to have ballistic mounts) don't even show up for another 10+ years is not really that useful nor do they seem to allow before such variants anything but energy or missile weapons.

So, for a ballistic mounting light mech, anyone of you urbie protesters can you show me one (for the era of 3049) that has more then MG mount on it and make it viable with the ballistic mounts? Pretty please with sugar on top.

[Damascas]

I would rather have a viable open combat mech instead the urbie with its ballistic hardpoint and the Jackrabbit has an AC2.

[Buck Rogers]

MWO is a team based game...

If an Atlas was coming at me unopposed by everyone except me, I would be perplexed as to how the team let this situation occur.

Go play World Of Tanks and drive a Hetzer. It's a slow, low tier tank destroyer with very little ammo but decent armor and a big gun.

It can't scout. It can't flank. It can't out maneuver the enemy. What it can do is take down any tank within its tier range, and seriously annoy any higher tier tank it will face.

How do you employ it effectively? You find a position where you can support the heavier tanks on your team, and you lob shells down range, popping in and out of cover if you can, and hoping your armor can withstand the shots that connect. Fully upgraded it won't take down much higher tier tanks by itself, but the firepower it throws down range can make it so your team mates take down the enemy before they die.

Hetzer doesn't win the match single handedly. It helps your team win the match by packing a big gun on a low tier tank that can contribute valuable hit point loss on the enemy, increasing the chances for victory.

Urbanmech won't win the match single handedly. It will help your team win the match by packing a big gun on a low weight mech that can contribute valuable damage to the enemy, increasing the chances for victory.

[Vechs]

I like the videogames and the novels, but I've never played the tabletop.

Can someone familiar with the TT tell me what the final stats of this design would be:

Stock Urbanmech

1) Strip weapons
2) Mount ER PPC in the left arm energy hardpoint.
3) Use remaining weight to max engine.
4) Any fractional weight left over, max armor and heat sinks.

What do you end up with?

[Damascas]

Except the urbie cannot really do that your support mechs like the CAT would be lobbing shots down range, with an AC10 you are more like close support and one push from the enemy would get you destroyed and your team would be down a mech. Name me one role the urbie fills on team another mech cannot do far better. Some mechs are naturally inferior to others. It makeup for it in being more durable or mobile, so tell me what the urbie brings to the table.