396 replies to this topic

[Spleenslitta]

Come to think of it....The Urbie is one of the few mechs that have that big gun small mech thing going right?
Let's say we had another light mech with a bunch of MG's but we put in an AC 10 or 20.

MG's and other small guns look tiny when they are compared to a big gun by pure looks alone.
The developers would have a hard time twisting the mech into a shape capable of looking like it has a big ballistic weapon mounted instead of the MG's.
That does give the Urbie a unique ability no matter how you look at it...

But i hope they give us a Jackrabbit instead of the Urbie to give us some ballistic firepower in the light weightclass. But that's just me.

[wanderer]

Damion Sparhawk, on 10 July 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

I'm afraid you're going to have to find a more credible source, this is from Sarna

The Master Unit List is straight from the makers of Battletech itself- in other words, it's the canonical source for all units and their time of origin.

Short of walking up to Herb and going "Hey, exactly which day in 3050 did the ARC-5R come out?", it doesn't get more credible than that.

[Damion Sparhawk]

wanderer, on 10 July 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

The Master Unit List is straight from the makers of Battletech itself- in other words, it's the canonical source for all units and their time of origin.

Short of walking up to Herb and going "Hey, exactly which day in 3050 did the ARC-5R come out?", it doesn't get more credible than that.

short of, actually reading the original technical manuals, just because it's been transferred to the 'master list' doesn't mean someone is incapable of making a mistake on that list.

[Tincan Nightmare]

wargonglok, on 10 July 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

you have trouble reading don't you, can any announced light mech snipe? brawl? defend as well. the urbies only downfall is its speed give it more speed and you have an op mech.

Well all of the light mechs announced so far have missile and energy hardpoints, so they can't snipe with LRM's or PPC's? All of them have SRM's and medium lasers, so they can't brawl? And evidently they can't defend for some reason? It would be easy to augment their armor to the level of an Urbanmech so why can't they defend, they can't stand in place like an Urbanmech? And to give it more speed you have to sacrifice the AC. The downfall for a ballistic oriented light mech is the weight of ballistics. That AC/10 is about a third of the Urbanmechs total weight, only getting worse for an AC/20 (where you also start to lose armor.) Yes you could swap out an AC/5, allowing you to upgrade the engine to give you a boost to a Trebuchets speed (without using XL,) but now you have a mech that is still slower than all other light mechs and mounts a single AC/5 and a small laser. If you want to snipe with dual AC/2's, they are the same weight as a single AC/10, so you are an extremely slow sniper, meaning that getting into a postition too snipe will be very difficult, especially depending on the maps and terrain and team starting location.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Spleenslitta, on 10 July 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

So many simply forget that the mechlab exists and say the Urbie is slow. Here is one thing nobody can say anything against.

As you all know there are only a precious few light mechs with ballistic firepower beyond 1-2 MG's.
The Commando C1 and the Jackrabbit 8T have a AC 2's. The Urbie has an AC 10.

Is there any other mechs that have this much ballistic firepower? No? I didn't think so.
You could replace the MG's in some light mech with an AC 10 and they could do the same as the Urbie.
But there are surprisingly few light mechs with even such small amounts of ballistic firepower.

This puts the Commando C1, Jackrabbit 8T and the Urbie in a unique position amongst light mechs.

And it is a unique position because ballistic firepower comes at a high weight cost for light mechs to bear, which is why so many lights go with missiles and energy weapons. When a machine weighs 20 to 35 tons, mounting a 12 or 14 ton AC (or a 15 ton gauss) eats up that tonnage quick.

[Blacke]

The concept of an urbanmech is a couple of them would hide in the city and wait for a hapless victim to pass by them in narrow streets. It is an ambush mech that can hopefully kill a target before it can get a way since it will slowed by the city sprawl. Not a very good mech for planetary warfare and conquest, but good for defending a choke point.

[wargonglok]

They can also snipe with act 2 in more open maps. ac also does way more damage then arm or dot lasers

urban mech brawl better due to stronger weapons act 10 or 20> srm and urbie has higher armor.

that higher armor and low speed marks them out as supposed to be a defender.

urbie is the highest hitting light 'nuff said

[Tincan Nightmare]

wargonglok, on 10 July 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

They can also snipe with act 2 in more open maps. ac also does way more damage then arm or dot lasers

urban mech brawl better due to stronger weapons act 10 or 20> srm and urbie has higher armor.

that higher armor and low speed marks them out as supposed to be a defender.

urbie is the highest hitting light 'nuff said

The Panther and Wolfhound are harder hitting lights that could take urbies apart, especially with equal armor and better speed. And yes dot lasers require you to keep the beam on target, but will that be hard to do against a mech moving slower than an Atlas? Also even half the burn of a medium laser will probably do as much damage as an AC/2 shot since the total damage it can inflict is 5 points. In a brawl a single heavy weapon doesn't equate to more firepower than numerous smaller weapons whose damage adds up to more than that single shot. Also the AC/20 urbie gives up 2 tons of armor to mount a powerful weapon with 5 shots. Once those 5 rounds are gone, you have a 30kph mech with a single small laser. Its pretty obvious that the cult of personality for Urbanmechs is too strong to fight, especially reading your location at the sacred temple of the urbies, so I hope it can do all the amazing things urbie lovers think it can so you are all not disappointed and raging in the game if it doesn't.

[wargonglok]

Panther and confound won't be in. and i wasn't't talking about thing urbie with a laser. one poster commented that you can sniper with lasers. which you can't do due to range limits, dot damage of lasers, and ballistics do more damage so they are better.

rightnow nolight mech can use ballistics and the ones you mentioned i think are clanner

[Buck Rogers]

The Urbanmech is most commonly used in Capellan space.


As others have noted, the Sarna entry for the Urbanmech surmises that the Capellans, in the 3048 time frame, are using a custom variant of the Urbanmech that has:

1 AC-10 (or perhaps the 1 ton lighter LB 10-X AC, as that is available by 3048, and is used on their 3050 era upgrade) (Right Arm)
1 Small laser (Left arm)
1 MG with 1/2 ton ammo (Left torso)

Furthermore the MG position is later upgraded to a small pulse laser in the 3050 era, so from a MWO perspective, that could be a "universal hard point".

The 6 tons of armor would remain the same as Sarna speculates the weight for the MG is freed up by removing the 11th (useless) heat-sink.

So, really, the "base model Urbanmech" in MWO could, canonicity wise, quite possibly be:

Capellan Urbanmech Upgrade Circa 3048:
Specs the same for UM-R60 except:

10 heat sinks.
LB 10-X AC - 2 tons ammo (20 shots)
1 MG - 1/2 ton ammo (100 bursts/shots)
(small laser remains equipped)


Suddenly its looking a lot better. Wonderbucket gets twice the ammo, more range, and (a tiny bit) more close range firepower. Aw yeah!

Edited by Buck Rogers, 10 July 2012 - 05:12 PM.

[Tincan Nightmare]

wargonglok, on 10 July 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Panther and confound won't be in. and i wasn't't talking about thing urbie with a laser. one poster commented that you can sniper with lasers. which you can't do due to range limits, dot damage of lasers, and ballistics do more damage so they are better.

rightnow nolight mech can use ballistics and the ones you mentioned i think are clanner

Huh? The Panther is the iconic light mech of the Combine, and the Wolfhoud is fielded by both Steiner and Davion. Both are Inner Sphere mechs, and while they haven't been announced (like the Urbanmech) that doesn't mean they won't make it in at all. Also you can snipe with an ER lg. laser, you just have to keep it on target for 2 seconds to get full damage so it would be hard against something fast (ie any light except the urbie.) And ballistics are a poor choice for lights due to the weight cost, but I'm giving up on trying to convert zealots .

Edited by Tincan Nightmare, 10 July 2012 - 05:16 PM.

[Orzorn]

Urbanmech is one of the fewer light mechs that mounts a ballistic weapon.

Additionally, the Urbanmech is a 30 ton mech and could reach great speeds with an engine swap.

Yes, the Urbie in the TT is slow, but that doesn't mean it will be slow in the game.

Edited by Orzorn, 10 July 2012 - 05:25 PM.

[Sidra]

Even in death this topic still serves

[Sierra19]

Ok, I'll sum up the reason we all want the Urbanmech in game. It's not about cost, weapon efficiency, armor, jump jets, or any of the other arguments posted here for it. The Urbanmech will be a FUN mech to play (for some of us), period. You know, you have one of those days in the game where you lose 4 out of every 5 matches, your xp and c-bills earnings are crap, and you just want to hop in battle, with a cheap, easy to repair mech to blow off some steam. Nobody is going to gripe at you for hanging out and doing base defense, or guarding the catapult, and you can just relax, and have a little fun, because if you manage to kill something, without getting killed in return, it'll be a good match. If you hate the urbanmech, fine, but allow those of us who want it in game have the little trash can with the BFG on it, and you can have fun trying to kill us, as we're pop-tarting over the hill/building/boulder shooting you in the face. You'll probably get us, but we'll make you pay dearly for it (if we can aim worth a dang, anyway).

Edited by Sierra19, 10 July 2012 - 05:31 PM.

[Buck Rogers]

Tincan Nightmare, on 10 July 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

Huh? The Panther is the iconic light mech of the Combine, and the Wolfhoud is fielded by both Steiner and Davion. Both are Inner Sphere mechs, and while they haven't been announced (like the Urbanmech) that doesn't mean they won't make it in at all. Also you can snipe with an ER lg. laser, you just have to keep it on target for 2 seconds to get full damage so it would be hard against something fast (ie any light except the urbie.) And ballistics are a poor choice for lights due to the weight cost, but I'm giving up on trying to convert zealots .

Unless the devs eliminate entire weight classes of mechs in MWO, Panther & Wolfhound are fabulous, well liked, prestigious 35 ton mechs, that I have no doubt will make it into the game sooner than later. But they're not 30 ton mechs .

You should restrict your "this other mech may be a better choice than Urbanmech" comments to:

Javelin
Spider
(common mechs in 3048)
Falcon
Firefly
(unlikely choices as they're Wolf's Dragoons limited)
Hermes
Hussar
(very unlikely choices as they're pretty much extinct)

Cause as soon as we start talking about 35 ton mechs, rather than 30 ton mechs, thats a whole other can of worms .

Edited by Buck Rogers, 10 July 2012 - 05:31 PM.

[Beo Vulf]

Urbies are fine for their intended roll which is city fighting, but put an Urbie in front of an atlas at 800 yards and the Urbie is toast. Pretty much any mech with ranged weapons like large lasers, ppc's, lrm 20's out range the Urbie and most of the Mechs that carry those weapons also out mass the urbie in weight, and armor. Every Mech in the game whether it be MW3, MW4, or this game has strengths and weakness's under standing them both for your mech and the mech you are facing are the keys to winning a battle. An Urbie v Catapult in a city is a missmatch the Urbie if piloted right will eat the pults lunch. The same two mechs in the country their positions are reversed unless the Urbie can get in closs before being disabled.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Buck Rogers, on 10 July 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

Unless the devs eliminate entire weight classes of mechs in MWO, Panther & Wolfhound are fabulous, well liked, prestigious 35 ton mechs, that I have no doubt will make it into the game sooner than later. But they're not 30 ton mechs .

You should restrict your "this other mech may be a better choice than Urbanmech" comments to:

Javelin
Spider
(common mechs in 3048)
Falcon
Firefly
(unlikely choices as they're Wolf's Dragoons limited)
Hermes
Hussar
(very unlikely choices as they're pretty much extinct)

Cause as soon as we start talking about 35 ton mechs, rather than 30 ton mechs, thats a whole other can of worms .

Is that why we have 3 50 ton mechs while no 45 or 55 ton mediums? We also don't have a 20 tonner either at the moment or a 75. There is nothing that says the devs are going to fill every weight class when they launch, so which would you rather have in game, a Panther or Wolfhound or an Urbanmech? If you have a limited number of units to start with I'd rather start with better units.

[Buck Rogers]

Tincan Nightmare, on 10 July 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

Is that why we have 3 50 ton mechs while no 45 or 55 ton mediums? We also don't have a 20 tonner either at the moment or a 75. There is nothing that says the devs are going to fill every weight class when they launch, so which would you rather have in game, a Panther or Wolfhound or an Urbanmech? If you have a limited number of units to start with I'd rather start with better units.

In my oppinion, the Commando needs some buddies/enemies in the 20 and 30 ton slots. If they're going to focus on "better units", why even include a 25 ton design?

[Captain Fabulous]

Tincan Nightmare, on 10 July 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

Is that why we have 3 50 ton mechs while no 45 or 55 ton mediums? We also don't have a 20 tonner either at the moment or a 75. There is nothing that says the devs are going to fill every weight class when they launch, so which would you rather have in game, a Panther or Wolfhound or an Urbanmech? If you have a limited number of units to start with I'd rather start with better units.

As nice as the Wolfhound is, its niche has already been filled by the Jenner. The only difference in loadout is an SRM-6 instead of the ER Large.

The Urbanmech is the only light who is designed to fill its niche.

[Mattrixx]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about thinking that the Urbanmech friends (and lovers) want and demand the Urbanmech of launch.

We, who like the Urbanmech possibilities, would like to EVENTUALLY to see it in the game, preferrable sooner then later. But we are (most of us anyway) not thinking the Urbanmech will see light of day on launch by anyways.
Sure, it would tickle our funny bones (and some other bones as well ) to no end if it did. But again, we are not really expecting anything of the kind.

Most seem to forget that to kill the Urbanmech you have to come close enough to shoot at it. And if the Urbanmech pilot has done his/her job properly they'll have AC/10 at most, perhaps a Gaus(?) even. Who knows the Urbanmech might even be able to 2x AC/5 on the arm instead of just one? Or maybe if you want to specialize in urban warfare you simply slap as many machine guns on the Urbie as you can fit. Perhaps you can fit more then one. We'll wait and see if and when the Urbanmech comes out.

As for speed, slap on an XL engine and it should do the trick nice enough, what does it matter at that point if you get blown up or blown up even harder since you are dead (according to most) anyway? Or maybe some other low tech but smaller engine with decent output of power still. Since, going so slow as 32 km/h is just as well as standing still (from what I've understood you referring to) you might as well get a smaller engine to the Urbie, save some tons and add more ammo or fill the armor to top or if possible, add more guns.

Since the Capellan Confederation variants of the Urbanmech seem to be sporting more guns on the Left Torso the Urbanmech might have another unused set on the Right Torso allowing you to equip more weapons there if you can squeeze in more space for them.

Now lets take a hypothetical scenario where this actually is true, shocking I know, we are pretending.
So hypothetically if this was true for the Urbanmech then it could potentially field at least 3x ballistic weapons in 3 hard points. And even if we'd go so far as hypothetically say that you can even swap that Small laser to another ballistic unit, that the left arm is not only an energy mount but also a ballistic mount.
Now, hypothetically, if all the assumed were true you could now field a 4x ballistic weapon Urbanmech.
Now then if you took all those mounts and fitted them with the AC/2's. You'd get a 4x AC/2 wielding and fielding long range sniping turret on legs that can shoot you freaky long way away.
Or you could fit other AC's or even, if you wanted to go really up close and personal, just plain Machine Guns and crap tons of ammo on them.

But unfortunately we are (no one outside the dev teams and the beta testers) not fully knowledgeable what all we can accomplish with the Mechlab with each mech separately.

We will have to wait and see for each mech coming out to just exactly what we can and cannot do, fiddle, poke, pull and generally screw around with.