52 replies to this topic

[HlynkaCG]

Chryckan, on 17 October 2015 - 02:10 AM, said:

What is a meta mech?

Simplest answer? A mech for power-gamers.

As for the OP, allow me to cast another vote for the Hunchback. It's not the most powerful mech by any means, but it's decent and comes in a wide variety options. It is also an absolute blast to play, once you get it leveled up.

Welcome to the game, and hope to see you on the field. Feel free to shoot me a PM in game or on the forums if you've got any questions or are looking for a wing man.

[Moebius Pi]

Going from my experience as of late:

The Black Jack may be rare in the pug queues, but it's pretty common on the IS side of CW in the form of the 1-X (and the rare, 3x Large Pulse Arrow). Very, very good medium for the tonnage and the (current) quirks on the 1X, with some fairly solid other variants (nothing wow worthy, but that might be why they're uncommon). You don't tend to see its brethren very much however. The Blackjack just doesn't seem overly popular despite some pretty solid load-outs.

If you want a fairly unpopular mech that still performs well, definitely a good choice on the IS side right there, and probably what I'd recommend for a true underdog. It hasn't hit its full stride of acceptance despite being a nasty little poker. I'm actually a bit surprised at how little I see them around compared to Hunchbacks.

The Treb just... isn't that great. Between the size, the fragility and the load-outs its less of an issue of being unpopular so much as just... not good given the alternatives. See them here and there but fairly rare just due to being pretty damn bad. They're in desperate need of a rescaling.

I see Vindicators so infrequently I rarely even -recognize them- when one pops up. Very unpopular, very rare to see on the field. The only other mech that I've seen about as rarely is the Anansi hero Spider, but you still tend to see other variants here and there. Vindicators? Rare bird indeed, they just don't tend to pack the punch that other mechs do with similar speeds etc. I can honestly count on one hand since last year how many I've seen in matches.

Highlanders also tend to be very rare for something beefy, but they suffer from the same issue as the Victor and (another now very rarely seen) the Shadowhawk; they were beasts during the poptart meta, but once that get dialed heavily back their spotlight stealing as some of the kings and queens of mechs also sputtered out without finding another niche to weasel into.

Their claim to fame was primarily just that; popping up via previously stronger jump jets, popping off a quick blast while dropping down. You still get some pop tarting going on but their niche long since passed on by. You're more likely to see a Cicada or Shadowcat doing that nowadays along with jump lights. I couldn't recommend the Hawk Victor's or Highlanders currently; they're not so much underdogs so much as bygones of a past meta.

On the Clan end I tend to see a bit more Summoner use (usually PPC+ Gauss neo-poptarts because, well they don't seem to do much else that others pull off better) than previously, still see even the "******" clan lights, hell, even the occasional Gargoyle and Ice Ferrets. They don't seem to entirely drop off the radar even at my tier like some IS mechs do.

If I were to edge towards a Clan underdog, it might be the Nova (rarely used, but with some nasty niche builds) or the Shadowcat (**** upon for a lack of energy hardpoints, but a solid poptart/hyper mobile medium with a few decent, though not insane loadouts if you capitalize on that mobility); hell the SCAT has ecm to boot, though the MASC doesn't add much to it (still a bit unique though).

If something big and beefy, the Executioner gets crapped on a -lot- but it has some very punchy loadouts, some hidden gem setups (a light hunting assault? Doable given masc turn rates etc. if they think you're easy prey and come to get ya; they usually do too the poor ********) and still manages to be a rather mobile assault in general. Like a Blackjack it has some builds that are considered pretty good, but you don't tend to see them frequently. They don't have quite the same level of problems as Gargoyles either with the potential to build something "metaworthy" if you really want. Also... Masc. It's the only mech right now that -really- capitalizes on it's use as a great addition. Also, the Phranken camo spec looks badass on them.

I wouldn't bother with the Myst Lynx currently despite a lack of popularity; it's just not that great much like a Commando and some of the Spiders. Some skilled light pilots can be -vicious- in them, but it's less of them being an underdog and more of them just under performing and being rare for that reason. They jump like mad, they're small, but their hard point placement and lack of speed just makes them entirely obsolete in any respectable way to a ACH. The Kitfox isn't in much better of a spot, though the Adder at least can pack a hefty punch for its size.

[Chryckan]

So from the posts it seems that among mediums the uncommon ones that are viable of the IS mechs is the Hunchback, Shadow Hawk, Blackjack and I'm adding the Wolverine to that list since I've seen other posts noting that it is a rare mech. (Plus I've only seen a Blackjack twice in the game and a wolverine once though it was actually two in the same mathc so I guess that makes them even.)

I'm sorely tempted by the Blackjack since from what little I've read noone seems to have anything bad to say about it.
However, since I'm starting out I'd like a mech where I can try many differnt tactics and weapons. And since the Blackjack lacks a variant with missile slots that is a big check against it.
It's the same reason am scrapping my first plans to build a ECM Griffin since it lack a variant with ballistic hardpoints. (Plus the Griffin feels like a one trick pony since all builds revolve around missiles and energy weapons cept for the hero. And with the need to skill up 3 variants of each mech running similar builds several time when starting out seems boring and counter productive to learning the game. I rather start out on a mech that I can get a more diverse experince from.)

The Hunchback looks cool and I like how it moves in the accademy. Though it lacks jumpjets which is a big drawback for me. (Not for any tactical reason but just because I once spent a couple of minutes walking around river city trying to get out of the river.)
Plus I've actually seen it a few times around in games.

So atm it is a toss between the Shadow Hawk and the Wolverine (with the Blackjack as a outsider cause cool and I like cannons).

[Spheroid]

You are asking for bad mechs? There is always the locust-3V.

[Chryckan]

Spheroid, on 17 October 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

You are asking for bad mechs? There is always the locust-3V.

Well, not bad exactly, just mechs that are uncommon or not played as much because they don't perform well with the current meta tactics.
Like the Blackjack that apparently is overlooked for some reason.

[JC Daxion]

as far as IS goes.. I would say these

Spiders, Highest flying mechs in the game.. very fun

Kintaro, the medium missile boats

Shadow Hawks.. (rarely see, but are darn good mechs, not sure why though.. I guess everyone would rather play a griffin )

Quickdraw, Fast light heavy missile mech

Cataphracts.. Slower heavy, but pack a ton of fire power.. Once were really popular again back when they were OP in comparison.

Awesome, People think they are to large and at one time they were big, but now, there are a bunch that are actually bigger. Another assault that plays the roll of a fast heavy, verse a brawling assault. .

victors (for some reason people don't like um anymore because they are no longer OP, but i still find them a great mech, and one of the assaults i do very well in.. Play it like a heavy, not an assault)

highlanders, another mech that is still good, but since they don't fly anymore, and just use JJ's for bonus maneuvering, they have fallen off the way side.. But i hate running into good pilots in these things, they are pretty darn deadly like most mechs in the right hands.



I would not call HBK's or wolverines rare by any stretch but They are also darn good mechs.. My fav is the HBK 4G with an ac-20, with 3 Small lasers, and 2 machine guns for maximum crit carnage..Or the 4SP, with dual SRM4's and 4 ML:'s.. Though the thing runs hot.. the wolvie 7K is similar to the 4SP, but i run with dual pulse, and dual SRM6's with a huge XL.. Both are strike brawler.. get in, blast, and get out.. Great fun!

Edited by JC Daxion, 19 October 2015 - 09:05 AM.

[Chryckan]

I found that I really like ballistics after playing with the Urbie so I really want a mech where energy or missiles are the backup weapons.
That probably should put the Blackjack in the lead but after looking at the hardpoints layout, even though it claimed to be a ballistic mech the ballistic hardpoints seems to have been added as a token gesture and it is meant to be a laser boat like the Cicida.

The Shadow hawk on the other hand seem as missile focused as the Griffin with both the balistics and energy hardpoints there as a backup. I can understand why it compete with the griffin for the same role of a missile brawler.

The Enforcer do however seem to be able to bring the cannons to the game but I've yet to hear any praise for it.

Have a scary feeling that I'll end up with a Jaeger just for the dakka.

[Kmieciu]

Chryckan, on 19 October 2015 - 10:39 PM, said:

Have a scary feeling that I'll end up with a Jaeger just for the dakka.

You see? Tried to be cool, but will end up using a meta mech.
"Underdogs" are for veteran players that are bored with using top tier mechs having played hundreds of matches in them.

But if you are dead set on playing the hard-mode, I'll recommend a Cicada-3C . It's the most fun ERPPC mech out there.

Edited by Kmieciu, 19 October 2015 - 11:28 PM.

[Rushin Roulette]

Just because a mech has more energy points than balistics doesnt mean it should be played as a laserboat. Dont forget where the hardpoints are located. In the blackjacks, the lasers are mixed between the arms and the torso. However, all balistics are in the arms, meaning, that the balistics can be used more often due to the advantageous positioning (you dont shoot small hils infront of you when you see the target in your display.

For Balistic specialised mechs, Id suggest the following;
IS
Blackjacks, Hunchback 4G, Wolverine, Shadow Hawk, Griffin Dragon, Jägermech, Orion, Cataphract (If you want a real underdog that can perform well in competent hands, then go for the 4X), Catapult K2, Banshee

Clan
Shadow Cat, and just about every Heavy and Assault can pack at least 1 big Balistic weapon.

[Rogue Jedi]

Chryckan, on 19 October 2015 - 10:39 PM, said:

The Shadow hawk on the other hand seem as missile focused as the Griffin with both the balistics and energy hardpoints there as a backup. I can understand why it compete with the griffin for the same role of a missile brawler.

The Enforcer do however seem to be able to bring the cannons to the game but I've yet to hear any praise for it.

the Enforcer and some hunchbacks do make great ballistic Mechs, but so does the Shadow Hawk, in no way is the SHawk competitive with the Griffin as a missile brawler, the Griffin has one of the best torso twist ranges in the game and a big part of the reason I prefer it to the Shadow Hawk is that the SHawk has a comparatively small torso twist range.

the Shadow Hawks ballistics are level with the cockpit and that is a huge advantage, even over the Jagermech or Blackjack both of which have above cockpit ballistics, because with the shawk to fire the ballistics over a hill you literally just need to expose the head as it is a 55tonner you have tonnage for 1 large or 2 small ballistic weapons so it does not matter if you also have energy and missile hardpoints provided you have those. 1-2 high mounted balistic hardpoints.

[Chryckan]

Rogue Jedi, on 20 October 2015 - 12:15 AM, said:

the Shadow Hawks ballistics are level with the cockpit and that is a huge advantage, even over the Jagermech or Blackjack both of which have above cockpit ballistics, because with the shawk to fire the ballistics over a hill you literally just need to expose the head as it is a 55tonner you have tonnage for 1 large or 2 small ballistic weapons so it does not matter if you also have energy and missile hardpoints provided you have those. 1-2 high mounted balistic hardpoints.

How is it an advantage to have the guns level with the head instead of above? Isn't it better to stick only the guns and the eyes above a rock instead of the whole head?

How quick and nimble is the Shadow Hawk?

[Leone]

Being an Inner Sphere mech, the Shadowhawk is as quick and nimble as you want it to be. I've down geared mine to Daishi levels of speed and nimblosity, and it's good enough for me.

~Leone.

[The Basilisk]

Chryckan, on 20 October 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

How is it an advantage to have the guns level with the head instead of above? Isn't it better to stick only the guns and the eyes above a rock instead of the whole head?

How quick and nimble is the Shadow Hawk?

The shadowhawk is a bit of an oddball since its ballistic maingun is right aside and slighly infront of your cockpit. So the muzzleflash and blind spot it generates on one side can be irritating. In addition its geometry makes the movement somewhat awkward but if you can get used to it its a true oneside wonder able to jump, sine around corners and still be able to take some dmg.
The Blackjack is a bit of an oxymoron by itself.
Its a 45T mech trying to wield ballistic weapons.
If you get over this fact you discover a smal relatively slow medium mech with jumpcapability and the ability to carry an AC20 at one arm at headlevel. The other variant is to actually co for multi medium laser or dual AC2 pinging away at enemy mechs from a medium distance. In lower tiers most heavys or assaults get unnerved and ultimately killed by doing something stupid to get away from you.

The only mechs I know of having direct fire weapons above headlevel are the Kingcrabs ( LAZORZZZZ) and the arctic cheater.
So the next best thing is to have one or more BIG guns AT headlevel.

[Rogue Jedi]

What is easier to hit, the head or the head and half the torso?
With the Jagermech and Blackjack the cockpit is mounted quite low on the torso, whereas for the Shadow Hawk it is in the head right next to the gun, so literally all you have to expose in the Shadow Hawk is the head while in the Jagermech you have to expose about a third of the Mech assuming you want to see what you are shooting at.
The Shadow Hawk has a relatively small torso twist range but otherwise can be very fast and agile, with max engine it has similar speed and agility to the Stormcrow, just do not expect it to handle well with an engine smaller than a 275 (I would usualy use a 300 or larger)

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 20 October 2015 - 11:45 PM.

[VortexD]

Clan side....Garg and Summoner....for sure

[JC Daxion]

Ive you want ballistics + missiles most of your IS choices are assaults as almost all the variants of these types have both.


Assaults, victor, highlander, atlas, orion..

for heavies the cataphract 2X, thunder bolt 5S, a couple of the Jags, and quickdraw Hero IV- four

mediums, Shadow Hawk, and wolvie are both great options, but my person favorite is the centurion.. and my fav is the Cent-AH. It is a brawling beast wioth it's ac-20 and dual SRM4's. I only run two because this mech is an ammo hog.. Played right you will just about run out every match.. so an extra 2 tons is worth skipping the extra launcher, It's also one of my favorite mechs in game.. but the other cents all have options, AC-10 or LBX-10, though the other cents also let ya pack on a couple of ML's for when you run outta ammo.

Lights i think your only real option is the raven 4X, and the spider hero.. and neiither can really carry a large ac.. its mainly machine guns+ missiles, or Just a single ac-5 and not much else..


Now clan side of things with the way omini pods work, many mechs can do this.. but seeing i don't play clans, someone else can tell you what would be a good one.. outside of the timber wolf..

[TKG]

More than one contributor in this thread mentioned the relative rarity of the Vindicator and the Panther; Might I point out they are essentially the same mech with ten tons in between? The panther (35t) in 3025, had jump jets, a PPC and an SRM-4, the Vindicator (45t) of the same era had jumps jets, a PPC, an LRM-5 and a medium and small laser as support weapons due to spare tonnage left over. So you have an odd situation with the Panther and it's literal Chinese copy the Vindicator, they're mechs that don't seem to fit the standard definitions of their weight class. It is also at this point safe to say that the Centurion also has the same problem as it too is a line holding sort of mech that suffers when used on the assault against a prepared full health foe because it's not actually intended for the role. The CN9-D fixes the problem a bit, but not as much as some might desire. In short, the three mechs mentioned; are mechs with a defensive lean to their designs. The entire purpose of designs of this sort are ultimately as supporting mechs for the models and makes that are intended to go after the enemy.

The player base forgets often that not all mechs are designed as equal in all things, I've heard a bunch of lament about the spider, and I agree, the Anansi is the oddball rarity of the bunch. I've never seen one in CW, and honestly since I own one configuring it to do what I want has proven very difficult. That may be the issue with the chassis as a whole, In order to get the spiders I have (3x of 1 model, 1 of Anansi) it can get pretty expensive to modify the spider to suit your own play style. That alone puts a black mark on the chassis right off, I don't know how many players said "F*** it!" right there but it's probably not a small number. It doesn't help that the trial model is not configured well, and somewhat uninviting to a new pilots.

[Macksheen]

BlackhawkSC, on 16 October 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

About half the IS mechs are pretty rarely seen in the public queue nowadays. There may be more of these mechs in the lower tiers but in the higher tier matchmaking most people are bringing mechs that can handle themselves. I'll list some notable ones:

COM-3A
SDR-5V
VND-1X, 1R
KTO-all
DRG-1C
CTF-2X
AWS-8T, 8V, PB
STK-5S (actually a pretty decent mech just that people buy the other variants a lot more)
AS7-K

A lot of these are older chassis that PGI sort of ignored or gave up on during the quirkenings.

The AWS-8T has such awesome (haha) generic energy quirks that I ran it as 4xLPL and did surprisingly well. It's not quite the 9M, but man it worked.

Agree with you on the STK-5S. I ran it as a SRM boat, and since they are so freaking tanky anyway it did well enough.

Sadly, at this point I'd say the SHD is behind the curve. And the CPLT, though I still love my K2 and Jester ... irrationally so.

[Top Leliel]

Commando
UrbanMech
Adder(Puma)
Ice Ferret(Fenris)
Vindicator
Trebuchet
Kintaro
Quickdraw
Summoner(Thor)
Orion
Victor
Gargoyle(Manowar)
Highlander

Note: some of these mechs are unpopular or underdogs due to being pieces of junk. You've been warned.

Edit: A lot of people in this thread mention Shadow Hawks. I could concur with that, it's a very solid all-rounder with good hardpoints, though not seen too often.

Edited by Top Leliel, 20 October 2015 - 02:47 PM.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

My guess is that the Kintaro and Commando are the least played chassis in the game.