33 replies to this topic

[Narcissistic Martyr]

N0D, on 17 October 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

Really now. Safe place against LRMs? Like where exactly in the Caustic Valley? Typical PUG solo match: both teams go center and nascar around the crater... One does not simply go flanking enemy missile boats in broad open space by himself - this is plain suicide.

Really? I do that in my lights all the time... Just gotta use the ridge along the out of bounds to stay unseen and neglected. Yeah once you get it down you'll pobably be killed but trading a light for their LRM boat that's suppressing your entire team is an acceptable trade IMO.

[ShinVector]

Good Luck to OP once the ECM "Ultimate" nerf comes to pass.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

ShinVector, on 18 October 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

Good Luck to OP once the ECM "Ultimate" nerf comes to pass.

.Eh, LRM power will last like a week before everyone starts mounting AMS again,

[Leone]

N0D, on 18 October 2015 - 02:40 AM, said:

Now wait a darn second please. You've got me all twisted...
Just post your opinions on the idea of LAMS itself. Preferably with reasons behind those opinions.

Okay, yeah. Fair nouf, I did misinterpret.

As for the LAMS, I think it'd be perfectly balanced, just like it was in tabletop. Sure, no ammo to worry bout, just heat spike whenever someone fires missiles near you. Like the good 'ole days of inferno rounds and useful flamers. Seems a fair trade to me. Honestly, I think most folk would actually choose to take normal AMS instead due to the prevalence of laser builds, and only the cooler running ballistics builds would consider LAMS.

~Leone.

[N0D]

Well, addressing heat problems, all i can say is that LAMS heat should be tweaked to the gameplay... i've never run hot because of lams in MW4 (yeah, i know, BAD example), so probably it should be like a bit closer to small pulse laser heat levels. Closer, but still hotter.
Also, it could have not only 2 possible switch positions (On-Off) but also "heat friendly" mode: only self protection against locked on oneself missiles, that will do actual damage (no firing at non-armed <180meter distance IS missiles, for ex.). On, Off, and Heat Friendly.

[Rushin Roulette]

Please get LAMS into the game and make it Meta... Ill pull my 6 * CLRM5 Maddog out of storage just to see entire enemy teams overheat before a brawl because all the LAMS were busy shooting down an endless stream of missiles. Once everyone is overheated, the rest of my team can go in and mop up the remains while I carry on shooting in direct fire (or indirectly if someone has BAP/CAP) installed.

[Arn0ldSchwarzenegger]

W key

[Rushin Roulette]

Arn0ldSchwarzenegger, on 18 October 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

W key

Its close to the R Key... but quite a few players dont know how to use that either... maybe it is a psychological thing... the further a key is away from the body, the harder it is to understand.

[maniacos]

Kotzi, on 18 October 2015 - 01:26 AM, said:

Push. Easy as that. LRM need time to do damage. When we drop with narcs and LRM we always get killed by aggressiv teams. Those who cower in fear get picked apart slowly. AMS if fine if more people would actually play as a team. It is not supposed to negate LRM it does decrease the damage and gives you time to advance. If you dont and cant kill the spotter you will die. But people tend to use the 1,5 tons rather for something else, almost all my mechs has at least 1 AMS and 1 ton ammo.

This is mostly the problem in PUG: PPL sit in their assaults and heavies hiding behind a rock (because aw my nice new paint could get a scratch so better hide from the meanies!) while the impatient lights and medium push ahead and do the assault's job of course failing badly.

Team up, get report, and then do a coordinated push into the enemie's line.

How ever for the OP's defense: This is mostly not one single player's fault but the fault of a bad team. Of course in PUG you can't select your team, hence this advise only works if all players get an idea how to play this game properly. It's certainly bad that you can learn about hitting static targets in the tutorial but not how to do proper teamwork, learn your class' role and get a grip on some of the the basic tactics at least.

Edited by Jherek C, 20 October 2015 - 05:48 AM.

[JC Daxion]

Yup, the guy hit it on the head.. It's called PUSH... If you wanna play Peak and poke verse LRM's you pretty much deserve the team loss. High end play is a different story.. but meta, and getting CT cored by being hit by multiple mechs with gauss's from 800m because you dared to poke your head out? verse a team with 3 LRM boats.. Ill take going against the LRM boats every time.


there are more than enough counters to LRM's already, so realy the last thing we need is another. Hopefully the ECM change will come sooner than later, and there will be more LRM's! then my Brawlers will work even better.. Nothing a brawler likes more than pushing a bunch of LRM boats..


so in other words, if your team is being killed by LRM boats, someone needs to take charge, and change the team strat..

Narcissistic Martyr, on 18 October 2015 - 09:16 PM, said:

.Eh, LRM power will last like a week before everyone starts mounting AMS again,

good, 1-2 tons less of weapons, ammo, or heat sinks.. works for me...

N0D, on 17 October 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

Really now. Safe place against LRMs? Like where exactly in the Caustic Valley? Typical PUG solo match: both teams go center and nascar around the crater... One does not simply go flanking enemy missile boats in broad open space by himself - this is plain suicide.

again, that is a PUG team thing.. take charge and come up with a better plan.. the Nascar plan that most pugs do is one of the easiest thing to counter on this map, if people use their brains..

Reverse direction... and wait for um to come streaming around a corner..because guess what if both are playing nascar.. they are not in groups, they are strung out.. kill their lights and fast mechs.. and now you their boats are toast.

Don't circle the crater, and take one of the great spots to ambush on the sides of the map..Just let a couple of fast mechs pretend they are still going round and round.. and when they all pass... push their back sides..

Split up have assaults, and heavies hold the line, whlie the lights and mediums close behind and push all at once..

these are just a couple simple counters on caustic.. the key here is someone has to speak up, and others have to listen.. But this is the issue on every map, in every pug...


see the theme? It's team work, and a push.. and in pugs, people need to lead.. it won't work every time, and sometimes you need to change the plan part way through.... But no mater what ya do, there will be losses.. you can't win um all.

Edited by JC Daxion, 20 October 2015 - 08:54 AM.

[patataman]

N0D, on 17 October 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

Lets face it: a big number of LRM platforms in enemy team can either be a free ticket to an easy win, or your total doom. This heavily depends on map and different conditions, but not on a personal skill.

WUT? #1 Use cover to close on the LURM boats. #2 Keep an eye on the sky and shoot down enemy UAV's ASAP #3 Take advantage of ECM and AMS when available. #4 Making good use of #1 to #3 is a personal skill. You can walk in the open or behind a ridge to avoid being spotted. You can fight at 300m or 50m. Those are player decisions == skill.

N0D, on 17 October 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

Seriously, sometimes there are situations where you can't do a damn thing against them. And it's so frustrating, being showered out of nowhere, while nowhere near the actual combat oneself.
Here's a simple question: why can't we have LAMS (laser anti-missile system)? Dem things were invented by Clan Wolf in 3045!
Seriously though, if we could use it, it would not be a total bane for LRMs, and there's heat drawbacks too... however LAMS would surely encourage players to experiment with utility hardware and dedicated antimissile platforms, such as KFX-C. As it is now and as i can tell, no one is using double and triple AMS, because it eats too much weight, spent on ammo.
Why restrict diversity?
---------------
Edit to all those people, who read only the first post:
I'm not whining about LRMs being overpowered! Srsly guys, stop giving me personal anti-LRMs advice, because i know most of it. Just post your opinions on the idea of LAMS itself. Preferably with reasons behind those opinions.

I am the weird guy that mounts double ams's when available. Yes, you sacrifice some tonnage, but not that much, and you can turn the ams's off when the missiles are going to hit the dirt to reduce ammo consumption. Denying some damage at long ranges means a fresh team for later. The system itself is even more situational than LRM's, because it's usefulness depends on the enemy loadout. No missiles? No cookies. At least it is marginally effective at close range to reduce streak/srm damage.

I'm not against introducing LAMS, as long as they generate a decent ammount of heat to balance them with the weight cost of AMS + ammo. But, basically, it should be same thing and produce the same results as the current AMS.

Arn0ldSchwarzenegger, on 18 October 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

W key

QFT. LRM boating is a sad duty, and they always need a hug

[InspectorG]

N0D, on 17 October 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

---------------
Edit to all those people, who read only the first post:
I'm not whining about LRMs being overpowered! Srsly guys, stop giving me personal anti-LRMs advice, because i know most of it. Just post your opinions on the idea of LAMS itself. Preferably with reasons behind those opinions.

LRMs have so many hard counters, lazer AMS would still be wasted tonnage.

Radar Derp weights nothing.

[Tesunie]

InspectorG, on 22 October 2015 - 08:57 PM, said:

Radar Derp weights nothing.

Which is sad considering how much it does...

[PFC Carsten]

JC Daxion, on 20 October 2015 - 08:43 AM, said:

again, that is a PUG team thing.. take charge and come up with a better plan.. the Nascar plan that most pugs do is one of the easiest thing to counter on this map, if people use their brains..

Reverse direction... and wait for um to come streaming around a corner..because guess what if both are playing nascar.. they are not in groups, they are strung out.. kill their lights and fast mechs.. and now you their boats are toast.

Which as well can easily be turned by careful scouting (which you actually can do without exposing yourself to the whole enemy team at once) and crashing sideways into your (i.e. the enemy's) firing line.

Edited by PFC Carsten, 23 October 2015 - 12:26 AM.