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Thorqemadas View On The Target Lock Damage Mechanic + Srm - Cone Of Fire

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#1 Thorqemada

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 12:11 PM

So far i like the "Target Lock For Full Damage Mechanic".

It is logical bcs multiple weapons do not "Ghost Converge" out of nowhere at any point of their range but need to be permanently adjusted (in modern times with Computer assistance) to converge at a given point of the weaponrange/the Target.

Usually weapons will be preset to converge mechanically at one specific point like 2/3 of the weaponrange.
But that depends somewhat on the circumstance the weapon is used, the general range of use etc.

Above and below this mechnical preset "Convergence Point" the weapons will stray damage and you have a damage loss.

That is only prevented if your Boardcomputer knows where you want your weapons to converge (in MWO on the Target) and for that you need to "Targetlock" the Mech/Strucure you want to shot.

This is already pictured in a reasonable way with how the Lasers on PTS work in Phase 2 and i like it that way that is logical and of reasonable effort and gameplay consequences!

Critic:
Ranges - especially IS-Short/Medium Ranges - need to be adjusted to good preset gameplay values for combat without target lock:

#Imho Clan and IS Weapons should converge at the same Point without lock !

#Short range convergence should be enhanced to 150m range (and IS ranges increased to fit that) and Medium Range to 250m.

#Damagereduction - dynamic falloff damage maybe to computing intensive - i dont know that - but i would like that more than static falloff damage.
Without lock the damagefalloff increases with the difference to the mechanical convergence point in both directions below or above the convergence range.
If that is to much do it as it is now...but make it true for all and every "Direct Fire Weapon".



#Missiles - they have a Missilelock and a different mechanic and should not be affected but SRM.

#SRM should become the Semi/Basic Guided Missiles that they are in the lore with their inferior guidance having them suffer a big missing chance.
I expect that this way the SRM would become more reliable to use and have less hitreg problems (as low as Streak and LRM).

The way they would work is that without targetlock a predetermined low percentage (20 or 30%) of the Missiles would home in to a Target that was under the Targetreticle when they were fired and the rest flies straight ahead in a specific pattern.
When the target does not or straight move many of them will hit but when it evades many will miss.

With targetlock some more SRM home in ot the target (40 or 50%) - a Missilelock does not affect them.
Artemis, TAG and NARC increase the number that hit a specific Mech (Artemis) or location (Narc/TAG - not additive but exclusive to each other - the highest value counts).

For the Missiles that not home in to the Target it will be tested if the Target has evaded their straight flightpath and they miss or the Target is still on the flightpatch than another 20% or 30% hit.

SRM will now hit depending on Targetlock and Evasionmovement by ~20% to 80% which should put them apart from Streaks and LRM and give them a reliable use.



#Cone of Fire
Imho there are some gameplay problems with that:

Cone of Fire would increase FF.
Cone of Fire can be exploited to hit locations that are behind cover by hitting exposed Mechparts like the AMS or an Arm.
Cone of Fire can be exploited to hit several Mechs at once.
Cone of Fire can be exploited to mitigate the active JJ Penalty.
And probably some more things my innocent mind never will think off... :D

While it would have a higher touch of realism i feel that the current PTS Damagefalloff is better to handle and balance.

Thats the it - Thx!

Edited by Thorqemada, 17 October 2015 - 12:14 PM.


#2 oldradagast

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 01:07 PM

Except why should my lasers deal less damage when I burn a hole on mech's chest because... my sensors didn't get a lock. Sorry, but no. Weapons deal whatever damage they deal, full stop. If they want a LOGICAL way to mech info-tech meaningful, just have getting a lock improve weapon accuracy (via a cone of fire) instead of random "ghost damage" bleeding off into space somewhere.

As for the listed "cone of fire problems"
  • No, it would not increase "friendly fire" by any meaningful amount because - for the millionth time - we are not talking about adding a huge random "spray and pray" pattern to the game. The point is to end idiotic 60+ point alphas on single components at long ranges, not to remove aiming. Just because the jump-jet cone of fire is huge doesn't mean the randomizing factor can't be toned down for the standard cone of fire.
  • Exploited to hit locations behind cover? Huh? Cone of fire means the weapon's bullet path varies slightly from the exact aim point, not that the bullet magically appears behind a rock.
  • Exploited to hit several mechs at once? Again, we're talking about a SMALL cone of fire, not turning every weapon into a shotgun or LBX. And you can already hit multiple mechs at once if you know what you're doing - adding a randomizer isn't going to make that easier, and splattering damage all over is hardly a good idea. If it were, LBX's would be the best weapons.
  • Mitigate the jump-jet penalty?! What?! The jump-jet cone of fire already exists - how is adding a small cone of fire to the rest of the time weapons are used going to magically turn off the jump-jet cone of fire?! Yeah, yeah - PGI doesn't have the best coders, but come on...
Yeesh.

Edited by oldradagast, 17 October 2015 - 01:08 PM.


#3 Thorqemada

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 03:37 PM

Bcs the Lasers be placed on different hardpoint locations each have a distance of Yards/Meters from each other and to do pinpointdamage you need to cross the Laserbeams either at a specific distance or at your target to have them focus on specific point on said specific distance/target to have full pinpoint damage effect.
Without Target Lock your Boardcomputer does Not Know where to Focus...

Cone of Fire depends all on the implementation and...you know... ;)

Edited by Thorqemada, 17 October 2015 - 03:39 PM.


#4 oldradagast

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 04:09 PM

View PostThorqemada, on 17 October 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

Bcs the Lasers be placed on different hardpoint locations each have a distance of Yards/Meters from each other and to do pinpointdamage you need to cross the Laserbeams either at a specific distance or at your target to have them focus on specific point on said specific distance/target to have full pinpoint damage effect.
Without Target Lock your Boardcomputer does Not Know where to Focus...

Cone of Fire depends all on the implementation and...you know... ;)


Except the laser beam in the example hit the mech dead center... but somehow the lack of a lock caused it to deal less damage.

I'm aware that the EFFECT - no lock = less damage - is similar, but the MECHANIC they are proposing is terrible. It makes no sense and is just the latest in a long line of illogical "balancing methods" tacked on to this game.

#5 Thorqemada

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 04:18 PM

Why hit the Lasers the Mech "Dead Center"?

Imho they dont and you have an effect equal to the LBX danage spray and a Nova is that wide it would shot left and right of a target and miss it anyway ;)

#6 oldradagast

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 04:23 PM

View PostThorqemada, on 17 October 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

Why hit the Lasers the Mech "Dead Center"?

Imho they dont and you have an effect equal to the LBX danage spray and a Nova is that wide it would shot left and right of a target and miss it anyway ;)


No idea what you're getting at there, but in reality, yes, a poor sensor lock should result in the weapon's aim being off a bit, resulting in obvious hits to other parts of the mech. Not the beams obviously all converging on a pinpoint location, dead center... and somehow dealing less damage for some dumb reason.

Just because the outcome - less damage without a lock - is similar, does not mean the shoddy mechanics show on the PTS are a good idea. They pale in comparison to a cone of fire in realism, positive effect on the game, and ease of understanding to new players.

#7 Thorqemada

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 04:45 PM

Well, if they say that is what the Manpower of PGI, Computing Power of the Server is able to offer i am fine with it bcs it is better than what we have now - i can accept this as abstraction of the reality of the Battletech Universe put into a simple gameplay mechanic.

Edited by Thorqemada, 17 October 2015 - 04:45 PM.


#8 oldradagast

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Posted 17 October 2015 - 04:50 PM

View PostThorqemada, on 17 October 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

Well, if they say that is what the Manpower of PGI, Computing Power of the Server is able to offer i am fine with it bcs it is better than what we have now - i can accept this as abstraction of the reality of the Battletech Universe put into a simple gameplay mechanic.


Except they never said that. They said delayed CONVERGENCE is a problem to implement. Cone of fire is not the same thing and already exists in the game: jump-jets, masc, and machine guns all use it. Unless the game lags out when everyone has jumpjets and machine guns, there's no excuse for them to not implement it.





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