205 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

Bounty hunter is not a single person
we know that Natascha and the Bounty Hunter clashed on LeBlanc in 3026 again - (don't know the official outcome)
We know that in their next engagement 3027 the Bounty Hunter offered Kerensky help
and after that Michi Noketsuna became the BountyHunter before he gave it to Vic Travers

[Archie4Strings]

You all seem to forget Vladimir Ward (Phelans Nemesis)!
On the battle on Strana Metschky he fought a 1on1 vs Kai Allard Liao (both in Omnimechs, maybe Kai had a medium and Vladimir a heavy? I am not really sure anymore) and it ended as a tie.

Actually (if i remember right), Phelan won 1 or 2 times vs. Vladimir. Considering this would make Phelan more skilled than Vladimir which means (see above) that he is also a better Pilot than Kai Allard Liao which makes him probably to the best Pilot of the 3050s-3060/70s era? I

[Karl Streiger]

Archie4Strings, on 26 November 2015 - 02:15 AM, said:

On the battle on Strana Metschky he fought a 1on1 vs Kai Allard Liao (both in Omnimechs, maybe Kai had a medium and Vladimir a heavy? I am not really sure anymore) and it ended as a tie.

Stackpoled DireWolf vs Stackpoled Executioner (3/5/3) - and Vlad was shot down by Kerensky.
Anyhow it wasn't a tie because Phelan had two foes before he met Vlad, who was shot to give Kerensky the rank of a Star Colonel.

Anyhow - the next equal duel was Grinner (WLF IIC) vs an Adder D.... you can play it in MWO or in TT all my bets are on the WLF IIC - with equal pilots - so its not "fair" again.

But as we know the usage of Mech is also a measurement of skill - Vlad should have taken a Adder Prime or a Adder B.

[TheArisen]

Archie4Strings, on 26 November 2015 - 02:15 AM, said:

You all seem to forget Vladimir Ward (Phelans Nemesis)!
On the battle on Strana Metschky he fought a 1on1 vs Kai Allard Liao (both in Omnimechs, maybe Kai had a medium and Vladimir a heavy? I am not really sure anymore) and it ended as a tie.

Actually (if i remember right), Phelan won 1 or 2 times vs. Vladimir. Considering this would make Phelan more skilled than Vladimir which means (see above) that he is also a better Pilot than Kai Allard Liao which makes him probably to the best Pilot of the 3050s-3060/70s era? I

Kai & Vlad didn't have a draw though... Kai won completely. The battle in which their fight took place in ended in a draw.

Even if it had been a draw, Vlad was in a Twolf prime, losing whilst having an advantage doesn't help your case.

That's why both me & Marack agreed that Phellan & Vlad place 7th (give or take) in a top 10.

[TheArisen]

Two people I think belong in anyone's top ten.

Justin Liao (Kai's dad) the original pilot of the famed Yen-Lo Wang. He was a Solaris champion & was an all around great pilot.

Grey Norton. Solaris champion for 7 years using a 60 ton Rifleman. He regularly fought comparable pilots that had bigger or better mechs. He's also described as being as good as Justin Liao. He beat Justin because he had a 30 ton advantage. Justin was in a Valkyrie.

Edited by TheArisen, 01 December 2015 - 03:15 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

TheArisen, on 28 November 2015 - 05:09 PM, said:

Justin was in a Phoenix Hawk.

Valkyrie so 30t

[Brian Davion]

Marack Drock, on 19 November 2015 - 08:33 AM, said:

Then again being beaten in a bigger mech doesn't mean you are a worse pilot. I am mediocre at best and can turn dire wolves to **** with my Jenner. Weight class is not an accurate determination of skill.

And Arisen. Vlad was pretty new himself. You forget at that time he had only just become a warrior (if I recall correctly). Plus by that logic shouldn't Vladimir have gotten better over time too? Sounds like plot shielding for Phelan to me.

except, here's a few key things to keep in mind, MWO and the setting are very VERY differant animals. Couple of things to consider.

First of all, This game is balanced so IS tech and clantech are (theoreticly) on a semi even footing. clan tech in table top and in universe is just better, (keep in mind this was 3049, Phelan didn't even know about star league tech and no one had heard of the clans before)
Secondly, you know what that Direwolf can do, sure you may not nesscarily know his exact weapons loadout, but you know he's carrying a certin amount of armor, can move at a certain speed, and proably have a rough idea of how far out his weapons can reach.

Let's play a game, you're off in your little Jenner playing a game, you see some sort of mech you don't know. you target it and it tells you it's one mech model, then another, eventually it just sort of gives up and says "Unknown!" and then it opens fire at you from a distance of 2 and a half kilometers (2500 in the range scale in game) and when it hits you, it hits like a UAC 20...

THAT, was what first contact with the clans felt like. I'm exaggerating a little, but not a whole lot, Vald out ranged Phelan, had more armor, and was nearly as fast and manuverable. (a WLF-1 only moves 6/9, a Timber wolf moves 5/8) the fact that Phelan managed to inflict notable damage on Vald's mech was in itself judged to be impressive (and it was noted to Phelan that it proably only happened at all because Vald was feeling cocky)

[Brian Davion]

Marack Drock, on 18 December 2015 - 10:51 AM, said:

Except this is not about MWO.... this is about Lore... and as stated before we are going of TT rules.

I know, I was trying to elaborate for the guy whose claiming he can kill dire wolves in a jenner so Phelan totally shoulda been able to pwn Vald in a Mad Cat

[Koshirou]

Easy: Maximilian Jenius.

Wait, what was the question again?

[Coffee Black]

Phelan and Kai fought in simulators, they tied effectively.

[Natural Predator]

Straight Piloting of Mechs?
Vlad of the Wolf Clan
Justian xiang Allard
Kai Allard Liao
Phelan Kell
Natasha Kerensky (Dead which may eliminate her depending on your view)
The guy who took out Justin Xiang arm was pretty good, He piloted a riflemen in the arenas, I cant think of his name.
Jamie Wolf
Morgen Kell
Yorinaga Kurita

[TheArisen]

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 21 December 2015 - 10:35 AM, said:

Straight Piloting of Mechs?
Vlad of the Wolf Clan
Justian xiang Allard
Kai Allard Liao
Phelan Kell
Natasha Kerensky (Dead which may eliminate her depending on your view)
The guy who took out Justin Xiang arm was pretty good, He piloted a riflemen in the arenas, I cant think of his name.
Jamie Wolf
Morgen Kell
Yorinaga Kurita

The Rifleman's pilot was Grey Norton. I talked about him a few posts back.

[Brian Davion]

TheArisen, on 21 December 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

The Rifleman's pilot was Grey Norton. I talked about him a few posts back.

yup, and Grey Norton is easily in the top percentile. as is every mechwarrior who can claim to be "champion of Solaris"

[TheArisen]

Marack Drock, on 22 December 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

Gray Noton (spell it right people) was actually a SEVEN time winner of Solaris. And Gray defeated Justin Allard-Xiang on Kittery like a little pratt. Justin only got revenge when he betrayed Noton after joining his intelligence unit. Also that Rifleman was named "Legend Killer" i.e. what the Hero Rifleman is based off of in this game. Noton is flat out better than little Xiang.

You're forgetting the part where Xiang (Kai's dad) was in a Valkyrie, a 30 ton mech. Gray had a 30 ton weight advantage. The difference in firepower & armor easily outweighs any speed advantages Xiang had.

If you put two pilots of comparable skill against each other but give one a better mech, you should know who's gonna win 9 times out of 10.

The book specifically states that Gray was "as good" as Xiang & won because he had a more powerful mech.

[Brian Davion]

TheArisen, on 22 December 2015 - 09:10 PM, said:

You're forgetting the part where Xiang (Kai's dad) was in a Valkyrie, a 30 ton mech. Gray had a 30 ton weight advantage. The difference in firepower & armor easily outweighs any speed advantages Xiang had.

If you put two pilots of comparable skill against each other but give one a better mech, you should know who's gonna win 9 times out of 10.

The book specifically states that Gray was "as good" as Xiang & won because he had a more powerful mech.

actually onl;y a 30 ton advantage is being generous to Norton. Given that it's been pretty heavily hinted legend killer was a 80 ton Rifleman 2.

all told Norton could make a mistake, while for Allard any mistake would have seen his mech crippled.

[Vxheous]

Kai Allard Liao in short bursts, Natasha Kerensky in terms of sheer longevity (she also killed countless Bloodnamed Wolf Crusaders in circle of equals fights in her twilight years with Clan Wolf).

[TheArisen]

Marack Drock, on 22 December 2015 - 11:22 PM, said:

I would rather say it was because Gray was so freaking good that he had the longest winning streak on Solaris of any MechWarrior in recorded BattleTech history (unless there is some unnamed pilot who managed to out do Gray). We also have to consider judging from what we have seen, is that Justin was not as good as Gray. Justin was nearly defeated (and only won by a narrow margin) against Wolfson in their final dual. Frankly I doubt he was good enough to beat Gray in mech combat anyways, as his neck snapping actions attest to. In every other case Justin fought his battles in mech combat (like with Phillip and Wolfson), but in the case of Gray nope.

Wrong. that is nothing but Canon rumor. In the book En Garde where Gray makes an appearance it merely says Rifleman. All other lore places only indicate the Rifleman 2 thing as a rumor with no actual evidence. That is merely a rumor. And in that meeting all sources specifically only refer to that mech he piloted against Justin as a RIFLEMAN. Not a Rifleman 2.

The book clearly states that they're more or less equally skilled & heavily implies Gray won because he had a more powerful mech. I also doubt Gray easily defeated every person he fought. I would obviously agree it was lame & anticlimactic to not have them fight in mechs.

As for Gray's Rifleman, there's only one confirmed lore Rifleman II and it's not Gray's. The book actually says it was a heavy mech. So no 80T Rifleman II.

[B0oN]

Cassiopeia Suthorn, 17th Recon Regiment "Camacho´s Caballeros"

More mechkills on foot than most mechwarriors .
Not a trained mechwarrior, still some mech-on-mech kills ... Jeffrey Kusunoki of the Black Dragons, for instance, is one of her victims .

"Mechwarriors ? ... Bah ! Nicely crammed into their multi-ton armoured cocoons they were so far removed from the sharp end of scouting it was a joke in and on itself that these guys would actually dare calling themselves scouts ."
as Cassie would say

[TheArisen]

Marack Drock, on 23 December 2015 - 05:44 AM, said:

Implication is not confirmation. Will just say that. I personally think Gray is better by a narrow margin. Could be wrong completely just my personal theory.

Fair enough. Obviously I still think Gray having a mech twice the size with twice the firepower & armor gave him the edge to win that fight.

[Kurvi]

1v1s From Canon:

Phelan beat Vlad (Wolfhound IIC vs. Adder D).
Phelan drew with Kai (Wolfhound IIC vs. YLW).
Kai beat Vlad (Stormcrow vs. TBR).


But the one that makes them all look like wankers is Tony Dansel from "An Entry With a Bang" fame.

http://www.mediafire...with+a+Bang.pdf

Edited by Kurvi, 23 December 2015 - 12:13 PM.