73 replies to this topic

[Ted Wayz]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 October 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

at a quick count, there are approximately 550 individual mechs on Sarna, not counting Ultralights, Colossal, or Industrial Mechs.

Even assuming 100 of those are deemed unusable (Obsolete, Experimental, LAMS, Quads, etc), that 4-450 individual chassis...with more being officially released every year.

At the current pace of (approximately) 1 a month, that PGI has been releasing mechs, that would be enough for 37 years of releases.... let's be nice and say they bump it to two a month..... that's still almost 19 years.

By which time, even being generous, everything about this game will be obsolete, and defunct, and the servers dark, even if it were to do better than it is.


Lot of things can be argued, but the "sustainability of the finite number of mechs available"? Not a realistic concern.

And the ones already released have already served their purpose in the profit model...any future purchases would just be gravy, anyhow.

There are indeed limitations to their profit model, but running out of mechs to sell.... not really one of them.

I am pretty sure that more than 100 are unplayable. Not sure we will see any 200 ton mechs and so many have repetitive loadouts only diehards will pay to have a mech that duplicates one they already have. As I said in the original posts competitive players will shun anything that isn't new and provides a competitive advantage.

And then there are mechs which are too powerful. And the quads. And etc etc etc. People need to fact check for themselves and I invite them to.

And then there is the PSR factor which this post is about. I do not see the Steam crowd as being a patient bunch. Many will have no clue what the hell a Marauder is. And if they cannot get instant gratification, well there are other games.

[STEF_]

I was feeling indifferent about PSR, and also I was thinking it wasn't possible to run subpar mechs and I was forced to meta.
But soon I saw that it isn't true: it is still possible "to help to win" piloting any mech.
Beside thanks to PSR match quality has improved, so I'm enjoying the game much more.

[El Bandito]

Stefka Kerensky, on 19 October 2015 - 09:56 PM, said:

I was feeling indifferent about PSR, and also I was thinking it wasn't possible to run subpar mechs and I was forced to meta.
But soon I saw that it isn't true: it is still possible "to help to win" piloting any mech.
Beside thanks to PSR match quality has improved, so I'm enjoying the game much more.

This guy gets it. I used basic Adder in T1 and still managed to contribute enough to climb up.

Edited by El Bandito, 19 October 2015 - 10:18 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ted Wayz, on 19 October 2015 - 09:51 PM, said:

I am pretty sure that more than 100 are unplayable. Not sure we will see any 200 ton mechs and so many have repetitive loadouts only diehards will pay to have a mech that duplicates one they already have. As I said in the original posts competitive players will shun anything that isn't new and provides a competitive advantage.

And then there are mechs which are too powerful. And the quads. And etc etc etc. People need to fact check for themselves and I invite them to.

And then there is the PSR factor which this post is about. I do not see the Steam crowd as being a patient bunch. Many will have no clue what the hell a Marauder is. And if they cannot get instant gratification, well there are other games.

We'll wait till you submit your list of 100 unplayable. BTW; you will notice I even gave you a 150 as a cushion, since I noted 4-450.

Arguments always have so much more merit with elbow work to validate them, don't you think?

[Tarogato]

Wintersdark, on 19 October 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

Exactly. This was the crux of my first post in this thread. I just don't see how PSR makes people not buy mechs.

1) you're a competitive person, and you're just going to use the best mechs. PSR has no bearing on this; you'll only buy new mechs if they're upgrades anyways.

2) you're a lorehound with favourite chassis. You'll buy them regardless.

3) you're cheap/only like a couple chassis - you won't buy any regardless.

4) you like new toys. You'll buy new mechs regardless.

So.... How does PSR fit in? If you're super-concerned about PSR, you're basically category 1 above... And thus PSR doesn't actually play into the decision.

As a competitive player, I like to work on improving my global KDR and keeping my tier rating maxed out. I used to enjoy playing Locusts and Cicadas all the time because I could do well with them fairly consistently. But ever since PSR was introduced and I was labeled as a Tier 1 player, I'm matched mostly with other Tier 1 players and I never get to see a single Tier 4 or 5 player in my matches. My Locusts and Cicadas can't compete at Tier 1 - I can't do well consistently with them anymore because my matches are saturated with other Tier 1 players. Since I'm not longer able to do as well in these mechs, I've quit playing them. It is for this reason that I'm not buying mechs like the Shadow Cat, Crab, Wolfhound and others... because they won't be competitive at my tier and at my personal skill level I'd be hardpressed to perform well in them or enjoy myself in them. I don't even deserve to be Tier 1... I just have 8,000 matches played and PSR is glorified XP bar that inflates every time I do "okay."

So yes, I agree with the concept that PSR makes people not buy mechs.

[Sarlic]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 October 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

Well, from my short stint in Tier 4 on my alt acct, I can say it was more varied.... for better and worse. But one thing I notice, is the higher the tier you get... the teamwork really doesn't get any better....despite the fact the PSR system is supposed to reward teamwork.... most matches are won or lost with a bare minimum of actual teamwork in the solo queues, regardless the Tier, unless you consider basic deathballs to be teamwork.

Well in the 'higher' tiers there isnt much difference. If i may speak about 'tiers'. The only difference it feels perhaps like more teamwork because everyone carries practically the same loadout and keep distance. (Ofcourse there are some exceptions) I see more teamwork in Planetside 2 then in this game to be honest.

There are nice and funny teamwork matches but i find them rare. Close matches are often on luck then on teamwork.

And personally i find this game has the worst teamwork ever of any i have played.

Edited by Sarlic, 19 October 2015 - 11:12 PM.

[BlueAria]

Tarogato, on 19 October 2015 - 11:02 PM, said:

As a competitive player, I like to work on improving my global KDR and keeping my tier rating maxed out. I used to enjoy playing Locusts and Cicadas all the time because I could do well with them fairly consistently. But ever since PSR was introduced and I was labeled as a Tier 1 player, I'm matched mostly with other Tier 1 players and I never get to see a single Tier 4 or 5 player in my matches. My Locusts and Cicadas can't compete at Tier 1 - I can't do well consistently with them anymore because my matches are saturated with other Tier 1 players. Since I'm not longer able to do as well in these mechs, I've quit playing them. It is for this reason that I'm not buying mechs like the Shadow Cat, Crab, Wolfhound and others... because they won't be competitive at my tier and at my personal skill level I'd be hardpressed to perform well in them or enjoy myself in them. I don't even deserve to be Tier 1... I just have 8,000 matches played and PSR is glorified XP bar that inflates every time I do "okay."

So yes, I agree with the concept that PSR makes people not buy mechs.

If PSR is just a glorified XP bar why are you facing better opponents in tier 1? So many PSR haters love to complain about their cake and eat it too.

PSR is just an XP bar but look at how good I am because I'm tier one and tier one players are so good

[Tarogato]

BlueAria, on 20 October 2015 - 03:37 AM, said:

If PSR is just a glorified XP bar why are you facing better opponents in tier 1? So many PSR haters love to complain about their cake and eat it too.

PSR is just an XP bar but look at how good I am because I'm tier one and tier one players are so good

Because at Tier 1 I'm not facing Tier 4 or 5 players. Tier 1 is the cutoff in solo queue for not being matched with potatoes.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Tarogato, on 20 October 2015 - 03:55 AM, said:

Because at Tier 1 I'm not facing Tier 4 or 5 players. Tier 1 is the cutoff in solo queue for not being matched with potatoes.

leet much ?

[BlueAria]

Tarogato, on 20 October 2015 - 03:55 AM, said:

Because at Tier 1 I'm not facing Tier 4 or 5 players. Tier 1 is the cutoff in solo queue for not being matched with potatoes.

Potatoes can't grind the glorified XP bar? I thought PSR was meaningless why are more good players in the higher tiers?

[Torric]

El Bandito, on 19 October 2015 - 10:17 PM, said:

This guy gets it. I used basic Adder in T1 and still managed to contribute enough to climb up.

Counter examples: LCT-1V, SDR-5K...

For some mechs it is definitely harder to reach high psr. Having the same matchscore brackets for those mechs and mechs like Direwhales is something only PGI could come up with.

[El Bandito]

Torric, on 20 October 2015 - 04:56 AM, said:

Counter examples: LCT-1V, SDR-5K...

For some mechs it is definitely harder to reach high psr. Having the same matchscore brackets for those mechs and mechs like Direwhales is something only PGI could come up with.

If one loves piloting those mediocre mechs then he won't be QQing about PSR climb, cause he clearly will not care.

Edited by El Bandito, 20 October 2015 - 05:00 AM.

[Torric]

El Bandito, on 20 October 2015 - 04:59 AM, said:

If one loves piloting those mediocre mechs then he won't be QQing about PSR climb, cause he clearly will not care.

Whelp, a few weeks past i would have proven you wrong... but with the recent news from PGIs attempts at "balancing", you are right: i do not care anymore.

[Kyynele]

Your tier only tells how you're placed for matchmaking purposes. It's there for extra matchmaker transparency.

Reaching T1 doesn't mean that you're a superhero mechwarrior. It only means you've grasped the basic gameplay, play mechs that mostly make some sense, and have played A LOT of games. The way PSR works, it's much easier to gain rating than lose it, which means that the skill differences between T1 players will keep growing as more and more people rise up to T1 and only few - if any - drop out.

I'm T1, and know who the demigod players are. I'm not one of them. I also have noticed many people on the forums sporting T1 badges that I know are competitively mediocre at best. The skill difference is huge as it is. At some point I expect T1 matchmaking to be pretty much just completely random matchmaking among players that have played the game a long time.

I know it's hard not to look at the PSR rating as being some kind of a measurement of how good a player you are. But all it says is is how you're going to get matched. Where the MM expects you to have good matches. Which is supposed to help you make informed decisions, like if you're T4 and your friend is T1, you're likely to have a bad time if you group up with him.

[Almond Brown]

Tarogato, on 20 October 2015 - 03:55 AM, said:

Because at Tier 1 I'm not facing Tier 4 or 5 players. Tier 1 is the cutoff in solo queue for not being matched with potatoes.

So your saying there are no T1 players good enough to play Lights in that Bracket, or did you just find yourself not ready for the lack of "fodder" available for your Lights after you arrived in T1 to make playing Lights still W/L or K/D practical?

[KuroNyra]

Tarogato, on 20 October 2015 - 03:55 AM, said:

Because at Tier 1 I'm not facing Tier 4 or 5 players. Tier 1 is the cutoff in solo queue for not being matched with potatoes.

Potatoes who at least doesn't brag about a virtual e-peen that doesn't exist and make them look like total douche.

I looooove my tier 4.

[Galenit]

Tarogato, on 20 October 2015 - 03:55 AM, said:

Because at Tier 1 I'm not facing Tier 4 or 5 players. Tier 1 is the cutoff in solo queue for not being matched with potatoes.

Sorry to crush your dreams.
In a win with 55 damage, one kill and some narcs in a narc raven (with no lrms in the team) you get the green arrow.

Its only a xp bar and even with a bad loadout and the handycap of a stroke (and beeing stoned) my bar goes up,
i tried to go down in tier, but i find no way to do it without beeing banable.

KuroNyra, on 20 October 2015 - 08:58 AM, said:

I looooove my tier 4.

I was there and i want to be there again, there is the fun, but my xp-bar goes up.

Edit:
Maybe i should try 2 sl and and tag and a second ton of ams ammo instead of 3 mls?

Edited by Galenit, 20 October 2015 - 10:49 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Tarogato, on 19 October 2015 - 11:02 PM, said:

As a competitive player, I like to work on improving my global KDR and keeping my tier rating maxed out. I used to enjoy playing Locusts and Cicadas all the time because I could do well with them fairly consistently. But ever since PSR was introduced and I was labeled as a Tier 1 player, I'm matched mostly with other Tier 1 players and I never get to see a single Tier 4 or 5 player in my matches. My Locusts and Cicadas can't compete at Tier 1 - I can't do well consistently with them anymore because my matches are saturated with other Tier 1 players. Since I'm not longer able to do as well in these mechs, I've quit playing them. It is for this reason that I'm not buying mechs like the Shadow Cat, Crab, Wolfhound and others... because they won't be competitive at my tier and at my personal skill level I'd be hardpressed to perform well in them or enjoy myself in them. I don't even deserve to be Tier 1... I just have 8,000 matches played and PSR is glorified XP bar that inflates every time I do "okay."

So yes, I agree with the concept that PSR makes people not buy mechs.

The only difference in this case between PSR and Elo is that you can see your PSR level. The same thing happened before, you where just less aware of it.

We had a 2800ish point Elo band, and matches had a Max of 150 points delta per team, except in edge cases and severely off hours where MM starvation meant you got what you got.

Thus, you'd be matched with players at relatively similar levels then too.

You couldn't see when you lose rating before, now you can. If this knowledge causes you grief, that's you're issue.

Also: I call BS on "I can't use those mechs at my tier. I'm running an LRM/mplas Warhawk and gaining rating or breaking even in 9/10 matches in T2. That's a HUGE positive gain, and will land me comfortably in t1 later. Removing the t4 players from my mm pool won't make that much of an difference.

And this is in no way a meta build, or even close.

[KodiakGW]

You're all fooling yourselves. We are still being subject to an Elo based system. How do I know?

1) If you read the forums there has already been a post by someone who said they had network issues, disconnect, reconnected to find out they had already been killed. No damage and zero match score. Yet the team won and their PSR showed =.
2) I have posted screen shots with me and 1-3 others all doing over 200 match score while the rest of the team failed to break 150. Four or more even failed to break 100 match score. Yet, all of our PSR dropped.

Seems like a system leaning heavily on the fact that the team won or lost, instead of individual performance as compared to the rest of the team, hmmmmm? The first instance there should have been a penalty for non-performance. There was none. Second instance those who broke 200 match should have stayed equal. We didn't.

You'll say no proof. It is there. You're all big boys and girls, you can search the forums yourselves. I'm on lunch break posting this.

I don't care about my PSR. I just want good matches when doing solo queue. I don't want to feel like I need to take my "CARRY HARDER" mechs every time.

Edit: Checked profile to show my PSR for those that will cry that I must have a low one if I'm complaining. Will uncheck later because I really don't care what level this game's system says I'm at.

Edited by KodiakGW, 20 October 2015 - 11:49 AM.

[Tarogato]

Almond Brown, on 20 October 2015 - 08:42 AM, said:

So your saying there are no T1 players good enough to play Lights in that Bracket, or did you just find yourself not ready for the lack of "fodder" available for your Lights after you arrived in T1 to make playing Lights still W/L or K/D practical?

So you're saying you could play a Locust 1V or Spider 5V at T1 and maintain your W/L and K/D? Because I couldn't. I would have loved to buy back those mechs and start playing them again, but they just don't hold up. Even my Locust 1E can hardly hold up. So I ended up starting an alt account instead where I can actually have fun with **** mechs like Spiders and Vindicators. At T4, playing a trial MLX isn't stressful - it's fun.