73 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

KodiakGW, on 20 October 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

You're all fooling yourselves. We are still being subject to an Elo based system. How do I know?

1) If you read the forums there has already been a post by someone who said they had network issues, disconnect, reconnected to find out they had already been killed. No damage and zero match score. Yet the team won and their PSR showed =.
2) I have posted screen shots with me and 1-3 others all doing over 200 match score while the rest of the team failed to break 150. Four or more even failed to break 100 match score. Yet, all of our PSR dropped.

Seems like a system leaning heavily on the fact that the team won or lost, instead of individual performance as compared to the rest of the team, hmmmmm? The first instance there should have been a penalty for non-performance. There was none. Second instance those who broke 200 match should have stayed equal. We didn't.

You'll say no proof. It is there. You're all big boys and girls, you can search the forums yourselves. I'm on lunch break posting this.

I don't care about my PSR. I just want good matches when doing solo queue. I don't want to feel like I need to take my "CARRY HARDER" mechs every time.

Edit: Checked profile to show my PSR for those that will cry that I must have a low one if I'm complaining. Will uncheck later because I really don't care what level this game's system says I'm at.

errr, maybe you should read how it works.

It uses fixed values for rating + / = / - not compared to your team. On a loss with everyone getting 200 or less match score, everyone will lose rating.

I'm not sure its possible to lose rating on a win. It's a positive biased system, you will only really lose rating on losses where you scored roughly less than 280 match score.

[Wintersdark]

Tarogato, on 20 October 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:

So you're saying you could play a Locust 1V or Spider 5V at T1 and maintain your W/L and K/D? Because I couldn't. I would have loved to buy back those mechs and start playing them again, but they just don't hold up. Even my Locust 1E can hardly hold up. So I ended up starting an alt account instead where I can actually have fun with **** mechs like Spiders and Vindicators. At T4, playing a trial MLX isn't stressful - it's fun.

There are particularly ****** mechs that you're probably not going to stay T1 with. The very worst of them. This has no bearing on PSR, those are just very bad mechs. PSR changes nothing. Not a whole lot, though. I have no trouble gaining rating in t2 in any of the 100+ mechs I have, and nobody accuses me of being particularly awesome.

PSR changes none of this though. It's exactly the same as it was with Elo, except you can see your rating.

Edited by Wintersdark, 20 October 2015 - 01:17 PM.

[Ted Wayz]

So keep in mind that I am saying I do not think PSR will be a benefit when when the Steam release occurs.

So if you are enjoying the matchmaking good for you. But this post is not about experienced players who have bought into the experience already. BTW, the matchmaking system determines the quality of matches. And although matchmaking may work better in some tiers than others there is no evidence to support this. So saying PSR is better than ELO...well both received the same comments and criticisms at their release and both measure different things.

For Steam players I am not sure PSR will be a benefit for reasons stated above.

[Wintersdark]

Ted Wayz, on 20 October 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

So keep in mind that I am saying I do not think PSR will be a benefit when when the Steam release occurs.

So if you are enjoying the matchmaking good for you. But this post is not about experienced players who have bought into the experience already. BTW, the matchmaking system determines the quality of matches. And although matchmaking may work better in some tiers than others there is no evidence to support this. So saying PSR is better than ELO...well both received the same comments and criticisms at their release and both measure different things.

For Steam players I am not sure PSR will be a benefit for reasons stated above.

I'm not saying its better than Elo. Nor worse, just quite similar with a few fairly minor differences.

But, and this is the key point: PSR not being a benefit and it being a hindrance, something one should hate? Those things are not the same. PSR certainly won't hurt new players.

Quote

TL:DR PSR has the potential to kill this game.

So far, I'd say you've pretty much failed to back up this statement.

[Ted Wayz]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 October 2015 - 10:37 PM, said:

We'll wait till you submit your list of 100 unplayable. BTW; you will notice I even gave you a 150 as a cushion, since I noted 4-450.

Arguments always have so much more merit with elbow work to validate them, don't you think?

Nice try. You presented the number, not I. So the onus is on you to prove it unless you want to stand by a certain vagueness like "I have seen plenty of players....".

But I don't even have to look. There are over 20 quads and I can make up the rest of the number with apocryphal, behemoths and prototypes alone. So your turn, show me 400 that meet the criteria discussed. Show me 400 mechs that people would buy because it offers something new or some sort of competitive advantage. I would even put a wager on it. My money vs your reputation. Hell we are already running into the "why would I buy mech A when mech B does the same better" and how many mechs are released?

[Xetelian]

While there might be reasons PSR isn't all that much better than random because of release valves, I find none of your arguments make any sense.

[fat4eyes]

Tiers and PSR are not a problem at all for new players. I doubt they would even care about it until they really get into the game. CBills are all that a newbie cares about, and the CBill bonuses for new players need to be tuned so they don't quit after the cadet bonus.

[Clint Steel]

I think PSR is an issue, since it discourages playing of sub optimal Mechs.

There are a few things I think would fix it.

Don't count matches played with Mechs that are not Elited/Mastered. They certainly are not indicative of how well you play. You also shouldn't be thrown into your regular Tier with a Mech still in its basics, not fair to you or your team really.

Also, have a separate "PSR" for each Mech. Everyone has the Mech they play best at, and another they are awful in.

Balance the Mech's. Seriously, if they could monitor everyone's "PSR" on a per Mech basis they could easily tell which are not performing for the majority and buff them up until they are competitive. Until all the Mechs are on the same level, they shouldn't effect your PSR the same.

[Xmith]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 October 2015 - 03:29 PM, said:

When I see people post about the evils of PSR, yet they hide theirs? Makes me wonder if they are embarrassed and want it gone because of that.

I honestly was against public posting, but put mine up, because I honestly don't care. I'll at least make sure I have transparency on my side for any argument this way.

I would prefer to say it's none our our business.

[Wintersdark]

Ted Wayz, on 20 October 2015 - 03:42 PM, said:

Show me 400 mechs that people would buy because it offers something new or some sort of competitive advantage. I would even put a wager on it. My money vs your reputation. Hell we are already running into the "why would I buy mech A when mech B does the same better" and how many mechs are released?

A mech offers "something new" simply by being a new mech, with unique geometry and different features. Maybe that isn't good enough for you, but it's fine for many of us. *shrugs* Particularly for those new players this thread purports to be about: They could buy an existing mech, or the new shiny. Why not buy the new shiny? Even if *I* am not motivated to buy a new mech because I have existing comparable mechs with identical hardpoints, it certainly doesn't stand to reason that a new player would have that limitation.

After all, children and retired folks with oodles of free time aside, a massive part of the playerbase doesn't have limitless time to play to fund new mechs. For many of us, just buying them with money is a lot easier. I can stay late for an hour of overtime tomorrow and buy a mech pack; but it'll take me weeks to buy a single mech with cbills.

New mechs that don't offer anything you'd qualify as "new" are not without value.

[kuritakun]

i say its pure luck... this is just me but when psr came out ive had pretty decent games 40%-60% on W/L ratio but lately ive had just 20% win rate on the same tier... just hoping for the losing streak to end

i think meta/mechs really does matter today in the tier system much more than before as my whales are suffering on my tier now getting focus fired prolly by higher tiered teams or getting left behind during noob nascars that i decided to just garage it for the meantime, my ebjs and my other laser vomits and hybrid heavies really doin good.

why not just seperate tier 5 and play by themselves, 1,2 together, then 3,4. or simply just put 3 tiers hard, normal, easy then let them play against themselves, just my 2 cents

Edited by kuritakun, 20 October 2015 - 04:50 PM.

[KodiakGW]

Wintersdark, on 20 October 2015 - 01:12 PM, said:

errr, maybe you should read how it works.

It uses fixed values for rating + / = / - not compared to your team. On a loss with everyone getting 200 or less match score, everyone will lose rating.

I'm not sure its possible to lose rating on a win. It's a positive biased system, you will only really lose rating on losses where you scored roughly less than 280 match score.

And maybe you should read the post before replying. I know how it works. I know you need about 300 on a loss to equal out. I said it SHOULD take into consideration that the rest of the team blew it. That the four could not carry six to eight individuals who should be in a lower PSR tier. In a case where a full lance cannot crack 100 match, many times combined, anything over 200 is actually good. You should equal out. If you do match score over 300, in that case, you should increase. But you don't.

It is currently impossible to lose rating during a win. The guy posting that he equaled out when contributing nothing proves that. People should not increase in PSR in wins that they did not contribute over 150 match, yet they do. People should not equal out if they can't break 100 match score, yet they do.

Because of that, it is a system based more on Elo - Win/Loss progress - than personal performance. So they should stop calling it Pilot Skill Rating and call it Team Skill Rating.

[Ted Wayz]

Wintersdark, on 20 October 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

I'm not saying its better than Elo. Nor worse, just quite similar with a few fairly minor differences.

But, and this is the key point: PSR not being a benefit and it being a hindrance, something one should hate? Those things are not the same. PSR certainly won't hurt new players.



So far, I'd say you've pretty much failed to back up this statement.

So you say PSR will not hurt new players...and provide no examples why....and I, who gave examples how it could negatively impact new players, am the one who failed.

You sir just won general discussion!

BTW, people in this thread saying people playing the meta and focusing on playing a few number of mechs are helping me make my point. But I am sure you realized that and were using super subtle sarcasm.

Edited by Ted Wayz, 20 October 2015 - 07:47 PM.