150 replies to this topic

[RoboPatton]

Instead of JJ's you get tanky (especially on the 1A). I've had no problems going toe-to-toe with cheetos in it.

[Weeny Machine]

RoboPatton, on 24 October 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

Instead of JJ's you get tanky (especially on the 1A). I've had no problems going toe-to-toe with cheetos in it.

1:1 is doable, you are right. However, lately when I got in infights I had to pull back so often because of LRM spam or got badly mauled by streaks.

Therefore I said above that all in all the Cheesetah is better due to its ECM.

[Spr1ggan]

Nightshade24, on 24 October 2015 - 04:08 AM, said:

And this confuses me often:

Because EVERY good jumpjet mech is not meta. (Shadowcat, Summoner, Spider, Mist Lynx, Highlander, Executioner, etc).
Every meta mech that can carry Jumpjets often do not (Firestarter, Timberwolf, Direwolf, etc) and when it does it's usually 1 just for jumping over tiny pines and ground clutter or to bunny hop up a mountain by spamming spacebar or because it's hardwired to get your Timberwolf cheese build....

I honestly do not think JJ is a important option in the meta comp play... mechs that got them don't use them and mechs that don't have them are complained for being bad for not having them... I will never understand.

In comp you will never see a tbr or firestarter without jj's. It's not about how high you can jump. Even with just one or two it let's you get around obstacles and it gives an advantage in taking damage due to being able to jump and twist throwing aim off. Also with those 1 or 2 jj's you can still get up onto certain elevated areas to get an advantage.

Of course this isn't the case for every mech. Assaults like the highlander for example.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 27 October 2015 - 05:12 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Honestly, when using mechs that have all the locked JJs (ACH, EXE, SHC, MLX, NVA, etc) I have found that having to "make do" with all the hops is not such a bad things. Being able to jump around so much certainly helps. If you were to take two mechs that were equal in every regard except that one had 2 JJs and the other had 6 JJs, the latter would have the mobility advantage. The Executioner has assault jump jets that kind of suck compared to lighter mechs, but still, the 20 m altitude helps you get around the map and I have had it get me out of bad spots on several occasions. Just saying, I know its locked tonnage, at least it does do something.

And yeah, to the FS9 and TBR not taking JJs in competition, that is a joke. I have never seen a competent pilot in an FS9 with no JJs, and I personally would never take a TBR without jump jets. Having the third dimension of movement available is hard to not pass up for a couple tons. The Wolfhound isn't useless because it has no JJs, but all else equal, it would put it at a disadvantage next to the FS9, or ACH for that matter. That and I feel like my STs take a lot of fire in the WLF (like full armor, left torso open and orange early on) but thats probably due to my sub par light piloting skills. I almost never use lights so its kind of an adjustment thing for me.

[Nightshade24]

Spr1ggan, on 24 October 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

In comp you will never see a tbr or firestarter without jj's. It's not about how high you can jump. Even with just one or two it let's you get around obstacles and gives an advantage in taking damage due to being able to jump and twist throwing aim off. Also with those 1 or 2 jj's you can still get up onto certain elevated areas to get an advantage.

Of course this isn't the case for every mech. Assaults like the highlander for example.

I think the reasoning for the TBR is because you can not avoid putting the 1 jumpjet for your meta 2 x large pulse 4x er medium laser build as the Right Torso Alt.Config. S is the only omnipod with an energy there. It also has 2 jumpjets...
I think a lot more people would rather have an additional heatsink on that oven than jumpjets and stop crying when they land on Terra therma...

Slightly different for wolfhound to Firestarter relationships because 1-2 jumpjets can actually throw of aim and doesn't make you a slowly flying obese duck that most heavies and assaults are when they JJ...
However isn't their an Advantage for the Wolfhound going 160 kph instead of the firestarters 150 kph in exchange for the jumpjets? Additional speed and agility also will throw the aim of an enemy and the wolfhounds speed is enough to clear most obstacles or go around it faster than a mech with JJ would climb.

FupDup, on 24 October 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

I think that JJs are more important on lights because of that class's reliable on mobility more than any other class.

Also, in your list of "every good JJ mech," Spiders are not a good mech. They are terrible, because they lack the hardpoints to pack a decent punch. Mist Lynx is also rather poopy and Highlanders are just mediocre in present day.

Yes, but isn't the wolfhound the fastest 35 tonner in game and also the most agile 35 tonner? It still has it's mobility and reliability on it- if anything it's greater because Engines can't be destroyed by crits but jumpjets can...

Also my list consisted of the best JUMPJET based mechs, and the resault of them being mediocre is sadly due to the fact that it is a Jumpjet mech because the jumpjets in this game is not the best. Highlander in lore can jump high enough and drop from that height to get momentum to virtually destroy an enemy mech as it lands on them. Currently it's toes barely flies at the level of the cockpit on some other assaults. So all these mechs where the advantage is jumpjets instead of say more firepower/ speed or what have you such as is the case on the spider, highlander, etc. You just get a messy situation, even worse when they are hardwired such as the Mistlynx, Nova, Executioner.

If jumpjets functioned accurately in MW: O the list I put out as well as some other guys I missed out (cicada 3F, Nova, Catapult, etc) would be the best in the realm of jumpjetting performance while mechs like the Timberwolf, Thunderbolt, etc just look up in shame.

Bush Hopper, on 24 October 2015 - 06:21 AM, said:

I play only single queue games because I hate the CW system and dislike the hose like maps. In this mode there is currently no reason to bring anything but an ACH overall simply because of the ECM.

Come again? By in this mode you mean CW or standard?

[Gas Guzzler]

Nightshade24, on 24 October 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

I think the reasoning for the TBR is because you can not avoid putting the 1 jumpjet for your meta 2 x large pulse 4x er medium laser build as the Right Torso Alt.Config. S is the only omnipod with an energy there. It also has 2 jumpjets...
I think a lot more people would rather have an additional heatsink on that oven than jumpjets and stop crying when they land on Terra therma...

Slightly different for wolfhound to Firestarter relationships because 1-2 jumpjets can actually throw of aim and doesn't make you a slowly flying obese duck that most heavies and assaults are when they JJ...
However isn't their an Advantage for the Wolfhound going 160 kph instead of the firestarters 150 kph in exchange for the jumpjets? Additional speed and agility also will throw the aim of an enemy and the wolfhounds speed is enough to clear most obstacles or go around it faster than a mech with JJ would climb.

No, I don't think so. If I really needed extra heat sinks I could use different omnipods to make it work. The Timber Wolf would be hardpressed to fit more heat sinks in anyway. The two JJs would be replaced with a DHS and a free ton.. That really isn't worth 2 JJs, no matter how you try to spin it.

150 with more firepower and jump jets vs 160, yeah the 150 with more firepower and JJs will be overall better, no question.

[Spr1ggan]

Nightshade24, on 24 October 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

I think the reasoning for the TBR is because you can not avoid putting the 1 jumpjet for your meta 2 x large pulse 4x er medium laser build as the Right Torso Alt.Config. S is the only omnipod with an energy there. It also has 2 jumpjets...
I think a lot more people would rather have an additional heatsink on that oven than jumpjets and stop crying when they land on Terra therma...

Slightly different for wolfhound to Firestarter relationships because 1-2 jumpjets can actually throw of aim and doesn't make you a slowly flying obese duck that most heavies and assaults are when they JJ...
However isn't their an Advantage for the Wolfhound going 160 kph instead of the firestarters 150 kph in exchange for the jumpjets? Additional speed and agility also will throw the aim of an enemy and the wolfhounds speed is enough to clear most obstacles or go around it faster than a mech with JJ would climb.



Yes, but isn't the wolfhound the fastest 35 tonner in game and also the most agile 35 tonner? It still has it's mobility and reliability on it- if anything it's greater because Engines can't be destroyed by crits but jumpjets can...

Also my list consisted of the best JUMPJET based mechs, and the resault of them being mediocre is sadly due to the fact that it is a Jumpjet mech because the jumpjets in this game is not the best. Highlander in lore can jump high enough and drop from that height to get momentum to virtually destroy an enemy mech as it lands on them. Currently it's toes barely flies at the level of the cockpit on some other assaults. So all these mechs where the advantage is jumpjets instead of say more firepower/ speed or what have you such as is the case on the spider, highlander, etc. You just get a messy situation, even worse when they are hardwired such as the Mistlynx, Nova, Executioner.

If jumpjets functioned accurately in MW: O the list I put out as well as some other guys I missed out (cicada 3F, Nova, Catapult, etc) would be the best in the realm of jumpjetting performance while mechs like the Timberwolf, Thunderbolt, etc just look up in shame.



Come again? By in this mode you mean CW or standard?

Even before the locked jj's on the timber pods we all used to run at least 1 jj in them. Of course you could jump a lot higher with 1 jj back then as well. With the 2 fixed jjs in the pods, the loss of 1 dhs wasn't much of an issue for the TBR.

What the fixed jj pods did sting though were my Kitfoxes and the build i ran on them. Typical PGI nerfs, mildly inconvenience the powerful mechs and take dumps on the already sub optimal ones. Just like all the blanket weapon nerfs we've had over the years.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 25 October 2015 - 02:59 PM.

[Nightshade24]

Spr1ggan, on 25 October 2015 - 12:00 PM, said:

Even before the locked jj's on the timber pods we all used to run at least 1 jj in them. Of course you could jump a lot higher with 1 jj back then as well. With the 2 fixed jjs in in the pods, the loss of 1 dhs wasn't much of an issue for the TBR.

What the fixed jj pods did sting though were my Kitfoxes and the build i ran on them. Typical PGI nerfs, mildly inconvenience the powerful mechs and take dumps on the already sub optimal ones. Just like all the blanket weapon nerfs we've had over the years.

Welcome to Logramrithamtics.

According to Log, it is very obvious the quote and quote: "best" mechs get hit very little but the worst mechs get hit very hard. For eg look at the Nova after the ER Medium laser nerf.

Also you over estimate the use of jumpjets on the timberwolf before the lock, quite a lot of other people went with at least a targeting computer 1 as the advantages between none and 1 is rather nice especially when you get an additional heatsink to allow you to not suffer to bad on terra therma or instead have 5 ER medium lasers instead of 4 ER medium lasers and remove the targeting computer.

[Spr1ggan]

Nightshade24, on 25 October 2015 - 04:33 PM, said:

Welcome to Logramrithamtics.

According to Log, it is very obvious the quote and quote: "best" mechs get hit very little but the worst mechs get hit very hard. For eg look at the Nova after the ER Medium laser nerf.

Also you over estimate the use of jumpjets on the timberwolf before the lock, quite a lot of other people went with at least a targeting computer 1 as the advantages between none and 1 is rather nice especially when you get an additional heatsink to allow you to not suffer to bad on terra therma or instead have 5 ER medium lasers instead of 4 ER medium lasers and remove the targeting computer.

I'm not overestimating anything. Every comp player i played with and against ran jj's on the TBR with a TC1. Even after the jj's were locked the top players still ran a TC1. You are underestimating players heat management.

It is quite silly to not run jump jets on the TBR. Throwing away the extra mobility and damage tanking jj's give for 1 extra DHS is absurd.

And why are you quoting that other stuff at me. Saying welcome to whatever as if i've just encountered it. I've been playing this game since open beta, i'm not new here.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 25 October 2015 - 05:45 PM.

[Nightshade24]

Spr1ggan, on 25 October 2015 - 05:41 PM, said:

I'm not overestimating anything. Every comp player i played with and against ran jj's on the TBR with a TC1. Even after the jj's were locked the top players still ran a TC1. You are underestimating players heat management.

It is quite silly to not run jump jets on the TBR. Throwing away the extra mobility and damage tanking jj's give for 1 extra DHS is absurd.

And why are you quoting that other stuff at me. Saying welcome to whatever as if i've just encountered it. I've been playing this game since open beta, i'm not new here.

The only reason early Timberwolf players is this:

And by this point, That isn't competitive play. That isn't using a mech to it's advantages or playing by the meta. That is abuse. And if you really want to say that competitive play isn't about skill but a competition on who can abuse the game the most without using hacking tools than it doesn't really reflect to well on the competitive scene you describe.

In case you somehow missed the first half year: This basically abuses an animation bug to make it glitchy when jumpjetting spamming and thus making it very hard to hit

This isn't because it's agile. It isn't because 1 jumpjet is OP. It isn't because the player is skilled and knows how to make jumpjets on a Timberwolf work or what have you. It's just an abuse. Which in my book this is as 'legit' as Tina's 9000 damage small laser of doom.

It doesn't take much skill to spam spacebar.

[Spr1ggan]

Nightshade24, on 25 October 2015 - 07:28 PM, said:

The only reason early Timberwolf players is this:

And by this point, That isn't competitive play. That isn't using a mech to it's advantages or playing by the meta. That is abuse. And if you really want to say that competitive play isn't about skill but a competition on who can abuse the game the most without using hacking tools than it doesn't really reflect to well on the competitive scene you describe.

In case you somehow missed the first half year: This basically abuses an animation bug to make it glitchy when jumpjetting spamming and thus making it very hard to hit

This isn't because it's agile. It isn't because 1 jumpjet is OP. It isn't because the player is skilled and knows how to make jumpjets on a Timberwolf work or what have you. It's just an abuse. Which in my book this is as 'legit' as Tina's 9000 damage small laser of doom.

It doesn't take much skill to spam spacebar.

Erm no. The reason early TBR players used to use JJ's was because poptarting was still a thing and the TBR was one of the best mechs at it. Plus the JJ's allowing more mobility and ability to tank damage better.

But anyway dude i didn't miss any half anything. You literally have no clue what you are talking about. You're just some bad that crawls out of the woodwork to cry and moan about meta and sploits. So how about you stfu and git gud or get rekt.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 27 October 2015 - 04:51 PM.

[3xnihilo]

First loss in the WLF 2® I needed to carry harder.

[Nightshade24]

Spr1ggan, on 26 October 2015 - 02:10 AM, said:

Erm no. The reason early TBR players used to JJ's was because poptarting was still a thing and TBR was one of the best mechs at it. Plus the JJ's allowing more mobility and ability to tank damage better.

But anyway dude i didn't miss any half anything. You literally have no clue what you are talking about. You're just some bad that crawls out of the woodwork to cry moan about meta and sploits. So how about you stfu and git gud or get rekt.

Not really, pop tarting died 5 months before clans are announced. On top of that Timberwolf A side torso was not out there.
Look at all the meta builds for timberwolf for the first few months, none of them carry more than 1 jumpjet- why? no need to, you are not going for height, you are just bunny hopping of to the sunset where not even lasers will touch you.

A quick look in the metamechs archives does support this.

It is funny that you are trying to say I am the one crying meta, exploits op and that i should get good. (by the way... that's how you spell the word "Get" and "good", even than it is a incomplete sentence)

Since you are the one who claims There was a Jumpjet meta for pop tarting awhile ago- even then. you claim it is done with 2 jumpjets on a 75 ton mech. At the current momment that's 14 meters, which has been buffed for heavies since than. Take that for a momment: The cataphract with a lot more jumpjets and was the king of pop tarters ever since it was released and is part of the reason that jumpjets got nerfed. This couldn't jumpjet back than. Not even with the high location of it's PPC's.
Also the HIghlander and victor wasn't poptarting than either... Not the Victor either... Barely the griffon and wolverine could...

On the matter: you claim to apparently be the person who knows everytthing about competetiveness. Let me remind you the things you said

You claimed Timberwolf can pop tart in the time only a spider would.


How about this: you stop acting like you are in kindergarten and throwing petty insaults a lot and do something logical.

Since it is apparently very competetive and power back than. I would like to see a video different videos of the timberwolf poptarting as you claimed. Than there should be many footage on youtube of this happening. If this was a meta. I would like to see it happen because meta is one of the easiest things to see especially in footage. If Lights are OP you would see videos or 4 or 5 lights per team. If it is duel PPC Guass meta you will see the victor and cataphract everywhere. So seeing the brand new shiny clan poptarter carrying on the cataphract legacy we should see a lot more footage: yes?

I would like to see these centered on more competeive players rather than people who have never played more than 50 hours of MW: O or people who probably have 2 tons of machine gun ammo or what so ever as this is aimmed at the comp level.
Also would appreciate it if there is at least 2 different people from different units in said videos to prevent resault inflation.

[ShinVector]

First game in the unbasic hound...
I like it so, far... It is basically the DerpMando's (Aka. Death Knell) big brother.

[Gas Guzzler]

Nightshade24, on 26 October 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

Not really, pop tarting died 5 months before clans are announced. On top of that Timberwolf A side torso was not out there.
Look at all the meta builds for timberwolf for the first few months, none of them carry more than 1 jumpjet- why? no need to, you are not going for height, you are just bunny hopping of to the sunset where not even lasers will touch you.

No, I'm afraid not. The Timber Wolf was an outstanding poptart mech when the Clans came out. JJs hadn't been nerfed that hard yet, 1 or 2 was plenty to poptart. It was literally better than any other heavy or assault mech when using the ER PPC -Gauss build. No Cataphract, Victor or Highlander could touch it because of its speed, and tankiness. In case you didn't know, you don't need to jump as high as a Summoner to poptart. All you need is ~10m or so and good positioning.

Unfortunately, Spr1ggan is right on multiple accounts here.

[Spr1ggan]

Nightshade24, on 26 October 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

Not really, pop tarting died 5 months before clans are announced. On top of that Timberwolf A side torso was not out there.
Look at all the meta builds for timberwolf for the first few months, none of them carry more than 1 jumpjet- why? no need to, you are not going for height, you are just bunny hopping of to the sunset where not even lasers will touch you.

A quick look in the metamechs archives does support this.

It is funny that you are trying to say I am the one crying meta, exploits op and that i should get good. (by the way... that's how you spell the word "Get" and "good", even than it is a incomplete sentence)

Since you are the one who claims There was a Jumpjet meta for pop tarting awhile ago- even then. you claim it is done with 2 jumpjets on a 75 ton mech. At the current momment that's 14 meters, which has been buffed for heavies since than. Take that for a momment: The cataphract with a lot more jumpjets and was the king of pop tarters ever since it was released and is part of the reason that jumpjets got nerfed. This couldn't jumpjet back than. Not even with the high location of it's PPC's.
Also the HIghlander and victor wasn't poptarting than either... Not the Victor either... Barely the griffon and wolverine could...

On the matter: you claim to apparently be the person who knows everytthing about competetiveness. Let me remind you the things you said

You claimed Timberwolf can pop tart in the time only a spider would.


How about this: you stop acting like you are in kindergarten and throwing petty insaults a lot and do something logical.

Since it is apparently very competetive and power back than. I would like to see a video different videos of the timberwolf poptarting as you claimed. Than there should be many footage on youtube of this happening. If this was a meta. I would like to see it happen because meta is one of the easiest things to see especially in footage. If Lights are OP you would see videos or 4 or 5 lights per team. If it is duel PPC Guass meta you will see the victor and cataphract everywhere. So seeing the brand new shiny clan poptarter carrying on the cataphract legacy we should see a lot more footage: yes?

I would like to see these centered on more competeive players rather than people who have never played more than 50 hours of MW: O or people who probably have 2 tons of machine gun ammo or what so ever as this is aimmed at the comp level.
Also would appreciate it if there is at least 2 different people from different units in said videos to prevent resault inflation.

Again just showing you don't know what you are talking about.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 27 October 2015 - 04:53 PM.

[prox]

Nightshade24, on 26 October 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

text

There was an overlapping time of ~2 weeks after release of the Timberwolf where JJ thrust wasn't nerfed and Clan ERPPCs were godlike. PPC/Gauss TBR was about the most op mech since the 3PPC/Gauss 732.

[Nightshade24]

prox, on 27 October 2015 - 05:38 PM, said:

There was an overlapping time of ~2 weeks after release of the Timberwolf where JJ thrust wasn't nerfed and Clan ERPPCs were godlike. PPC/Gauss TBR was about the most op mech since the 3PPC/Gauss 732.

Never have I seen a 3 PPC Gauss Highlander, all the builds I've seen had 2.
Nor have I saw clan ER PPC's popular outside of the adder (For semi obvious reasons) and the Direwolf (For duel gauss, duel PPC).

[Nightshade24]

Spr1ggan, on 27 October 2015 - 04:52 PM, said:

Again just showing you don't know what you are talking about.

care to point that out anywhere? because your argument is the equivalent of a 4 year old with anger issues along the lines of "I am right, you are wrong. You can't prove it. Not with facts, evidence, maths, bla bla bla!" when asked for reasons (beyond "because I am right!") behind it that's slightly logical or coherent rather it be supporting evidence or what have you they start crying and blame the other kid it's all his fault because he's wrong.

Not saying that you are a 4 year old. You at least have the ability to remember your own username and password to log in on MW: O every so and so that it logs you out and you can spell words like competetive. However I am sorry to say that your claims of me knowing nothing at all better suits yourself rather than me. Because you are on the side of neglecting or avoiding the majority of the constructive debate and when asked to pull a single piece of evidence you just repeat the same old ignorant statement of "I'm right, you are wrong.", Because that ended up well after WWI... not like it caused 65 years of wars (WWII, korean, vietnam, Isis, etc) nor did it create a large social and economical voids in several locations as well as ruin several races, cultures, and ethnicities... nope. Not at all...

[Nightshade24]

Gas Guzzler, on 27 October 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

No, I'm afraid not. The Timber Wolf was an outstanding poptart mech when the Clans came out. JJs hadn't been nerfed that hard yet, 1 or 2 was plenty to poptart. It was literally better than any other heavy or assault mech when using the ER PPC -Gauss build. No Cataphract, Victor or Highlander could touch it because of its speed, and tankiness. In case you didn't know, you don't need to jump as high as a Summoner to poptart. All you need is ~10m or so and good positioning.

Unfortunately, Spr1ggan is right on multiple accounts here.

Gas Guzzler, on 27 October 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

No, I'm afraid not. The Timber Wolf was an outstanding poptart mech when the Clans came out. JJs hadn't been nerfed that hard yet, 1 or 2 was plenty to poptart. It was literally better than any other heavy or assault mech when using the ER PPC -Gauss build. No Cataphract, Victor or Highlander could touch it because of its speed, and tankiness. In case you didn't know, you don't need to jump as high as a Summoner to poptart. All you need is ~10m or so and good positioning.

Unfortunately, Spr1ggan is right on multiple accounts here.

Well you have more validity tan Spr1ggan right of the bat. I would like to see video recordings of this as it is the best evidence out there beyond a competition on who has the bigger ego and memory corruption or reliability.

As I mentioned; if it was OP in any stretch, there should be more than a few dozen videos of it on Youtube. I can find more than dozens of Videos of duel gauss duel ER PPC direwolfs, I can find a few dozen videos of 12 er medium laser novas and videos of Kitfoxes with twin UAC 2's, all being popular for the chassis at the time before nerfs. But oddly there is not more than a small handfull of videos I can see with 'poptarting timberwolfs', Any video I find with anything vaguely to that rather it be title or description is just hill humping (which any mech can do) and bunnyhops as i mentioned earlier.