82 replies to this topic

[Clit Beastwood]

wow people would waste even *more* time between drops

And as laser-heavy as the meta is right now, if people paid for ammo it's going to make it even more laser heavy.

[Kira Onime]

New players already struggle to get more than 100k cbills a match... you want to reduce it even further?

EDIT: re-read OP... still a stupid idea.

Edited by Kira Onime, 22 October 2015 - 11:34 AM.

[Keeshu]

There is no immersion in penalizing people for using builds they find fun in solo/group queue where people are just there using whatever build they want to use.

With that said, I'd be all for repair and re-arm in community warfare. Since there is going to be an economy there eventually. Also, depending on how in-depth PvE becomes in the far future, I'd be all for repair an rearm for doing short co-op campaigns with friends.

Though, in whatever game mode it's added for, make sure it doesn't prevent someone from using certain playstyles. I most certainly don't want to see it be nothing but lasers or whatever just because that weapon system gives you the best bang for your buck. It would make things boring not seeing even less build diversity on the field.

[Roadkill]

cdlord, on 22 October 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

I propose reintroducing R&R but with time being the only cost required*. I would say 1.0 or 0.5 seconds per point of armor or health of destroyed components is sufficient.

I really can't support something that prevents us from using Mechs that we purchased with real money.

Honestly, I can't support it for c-bill purchases either. Why prevent people from playing the game? The player base is small enough as it is. We need everyone in the queue that we can get... having people wait an extra 5 minutes between matches just makes matchmaking that much harder.

(And no, I doubt very much that people would outfit 2 Mechs and toggle between them. That's a PITA.)

[CDLord HHGD]

Roadkill, on 22 October 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

I really can't support something that prevents us from using Mechs that we purchased with real money.

Honestly, I can't support it for c-bill purchases either. Why prevent people from playing the game? The player base is small enough as it is. We need everyone in the queue that we can get... having people wait an extra 5 minutes between matches just makes matchmaking that much harder.

(And no, I doubt very much that people would outfit 2 Mechs and toggle between them. That's a PITA.)

cdlord, on 22 October 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Look, since this has no bearing on the actual game play, how about making it an option like cockpit glass? Some of you just want to log in and rampage, I'd like a little more immersion into the Battletech universe.... We could all have our cakes and eat it too.

I edited my OP and the actual time is up for debate... Sigh..... You people.....

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Roadkill, on 22 October 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

I really can't support something that prevents us from using Mechs that we purchased with real money.

Honestly, I can't support it for c-bill purchases either. Why prevent people from playing the game? The player base is small enough as it is. We need everyone in the queue that we can get... having people wait an extra 5 minutes between matches just makes matchmaking that much harder.

(And no, I doubt very much that people would outfit 2 Mechs and toggle between them. That's a PITA.)

You're not preventing them from playing the game... You have a lot of mechs yeah? Mechs you've paid real money/cbills for right?

How many of your entire stable do you actually use on a regular basis? 3 in a day maybe? MAYBE 5? out of what, 10, 20+?

This would enforce players playing other mechs. Especially if it's put into CW.

Seriously, I'm all for RnR but I don't want to burden the new players or anything.

[Malleus011]

I'd love to have something like this for Community Warfare; your 'mech(s) get wrecked in action, you're going to need another drop deck. If you drop too many CW matches in a row, you're going to be running low on 'mechs. It might actually give a strategic reason for pokemech collections like mine.

Secondly, I'd like to see the 'timer' kicked over for extensive modifications. You can swap out those medium lasers and have the 'mech back in a few minutes, but gutting the engine, endo the chassis, completely swap out the weapons and you're looking at not getting it back for a good while as your techs get to work.

Again, maybe this is an 'opt in' mode for those of us who want to feel more like we're playing Battletech instead of a generic robot arena shooter, but I'd still enjoy having the option.

Edited by Malleus011, 22 October 2015 - 12:24 PM.

[WarZ]

I think R&R is necessary to the balance of this game. You want to use clan mechs with all the EXPENSIVE goodies ? Well you gotta fix all that after match. Your rate of income would be lower. You want to make money, drive your best beater IS mech and save / earn more.

It would certainly incentivize piloting less than optimal mechs.

They don't even have to go too extreme with it... maybe the end result is you only make 25-50% more overall by piloting cheaper mechs ? I dunno, but there is something to it.

Edited by WarZ, 22 October 2015 - 12:29 PM.

[TLBFestus]

Mike McSullivan, on 22 October 2015 - 07:25 AM, said:

I think if cBill gains would be raised, an implementation of repaircosts wouldnt be a bad thing. Even if its just an RPG element.
Rearmcosts would hurt ACs and LRMs (which are both nonmeta right now) even more...

Agreeing with you, but let's see......


Add R&R: net outcome, a increase in c-bills to reduce impact


Since you are now doing R&R, even with an increase in c-bills for games, paying for R&R plus saving money is going to result in a slower accruing of c-bills.

Since you get c-bills slower, mechs would be an even bigger grind. So wouldn't mechs have to cost less c-bills to balance the "economy"?

Wouldn't lowering the c-bill value of mechs devalue things? Would package prices change to reflect this?

Putting R&R back in the game would be a great addition to it, but PGI is too far down the road they've chosen to willingly turn around and go back. At this point I'm of the opinion that it would be too big an undertaking since it can affect the balance of the whole game (and keep in mind they are struggling with now).

[Tordin]

R & R for a campaign mode would be fitting if EVER in PUG games. PGI needs to increase c-bill gain by.. the double at least! Or the new cadets and those who play for fun and or experimenting will be hit HARD in the expenses at rearming and repairing their mechs (and dont forget the loss streaks). In CW it could fit, but now its not a priority I guess.

Edited by Tordin, 22 October 2015 - 01:48 PM.

[Xmith]

I recall complaints from some when teammates would drop without making full repairs. They claimed that not dropping with full repairs would hurt team performance.

[Roadkill]

Flash Frame, on 22 October 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

This would enforce players playing other mechs.

Right. So force people to play a Mech they don't want to play.

Yeah, that's much better. /sarcasm

What you're really forcing people to do is buy 2 sets of modules at 6 million c-bills each so that they can fully outfit 2 Mechs and toggle between them.

As far as making it optional... why bother? Just toggle between 2 Mechs yourself and save PGI the programming time (and attendant bugs that we all know would come with the new feature).

I understand the appeal of R&R, but I don't think it is appropriate for the game we have. If CW was as good as it should be then sure, implement it in some way for CW. But CW is just another death match game mode, and R&R doesn't make sense in that environment.

[Wing 0]

if we were to have this feature back in i would suggest having it in CW. I know that alot of ppl wouldnt want it like that but i thought of some things that would get people without having to worry.

1. Bigger pay in Cbills. Obviously repairs for 4 mechs will be costly.

2. Make Bonuses for "Those using mechs that wernt repaired from a previous fight".

3. No Trial Mechs allowed in CW. Sorry kiddies but learn to get 4 commonly used mechs before playing CW.

4. Higher Loyalty Rewards regardless of win or loss. dont do well you can still get paid for at least repairs.

This is only if having the repair and reload function back into the game. i figured it would work on CW and having things like these can help ease all players but i doubt it would work. im sure other people would think of something better but you never know.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Roadkill, on 22 October 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

Right. So force people to play a Mech they don't want to play.

Yeah, that's much better. /sarcasm

What you're really forcing people to do is buy 2 sets of modules at 6 million c-bills each so that they can fully outfit 2 Mechs and toggle between them.

As far as making it optional... why bother? Just toggle between 2 Mechs yourself and save PGI the programming time (and attendant bugs that we all know would come with the new feature).

I understand the appeal of R&R, but I don't think it is appropriate for the game we have. If CW was as good as it should be then sure, implement it in some way for CW. But CW is just another death match game mode, and R&R doesn't make sense in that environment.

if you picked up a mech, for c-bills, you likely wanted to play that mech for SOME reason. And ESPECIALLY if you paid money for that mech.

Look I get what you're saying... but also understand... you have a ton of mechs available to you, you should be playing them... You can cry all you want about "but I own this but don't want to use it" and that's fine, then sit out, and wait for the mechs you want to play to get fixed.

Adapt and overcome... seriously the whine of mechwarriors is insane sometimes.

[Inveramsay]

Flash Frame, on 22 October 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

if you picked up a mech, for c-bills, you likely wanted to play that mech for SOME reason. And ESPECIALLY if you paid money for that mech.

Look I get what you're saying... but also understand... you have a ton of mechs available to you, you should be playing them... You can cry all you want about "but I own this but don't want to use it" and that's fine, then sit out, and wait for the mechs you want to play to get fixed.

Adapt and overcome... seriously the whine of mechwarriors is insane sometimes.

I want to play more mechs in cw than I do at the moment but I simply can't because the unit I've joined happens to be wolf loyalist. I have a good sized stable of mechs that I started building after the last reset but most of them IS and useless in cw.

I also have lots of mechs that I thought I'd like (victors, trebs, phracts) but I just don't get along with them forcing me to play them seems silly.

As for a history lesson on R&R. It used to be part of the game in beta some time where you'd pay a portion of the destroyed value of your mech to have it fixed and reloaded with ammo. You only paid a portion and good a fair chunk of the work done for free. This led to things like the three quarter load cats where only three quarters of the total ammo payload was actually loaded in order to save c bills. It also meant that the amount you paid in repairs were linked to tonnage to a big extent so an atlas was not expensive to run than a Jenner. This wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that the Jenner was probably the best mech in the game at the time. Cbill earnings were higher to compensate for repairs so the people who lost of the disappearance of repairs were us light pilots. I seen to remember losing around 50k with the change.

The R&R system that used to exist makes little sense but so does a timer system, at least for the pub queue. For cw I can see a place for R&R if it is done in a well thought out manner. Paying a percentage of the destroyed equipment doesn't work as some weapons will be unfairly expensive to repair like lbx10s on the IS side. It can't be a system where your bill is related to weight either as often a50t mech isn't making less money than a 100t mech so if the repair bill is twice why bother with assaults if you want money?

[Roadkill]

Flash Frame, on 22 October 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

that's fine, then sit out, and wait for the mechs you want to play to get fixed.

So we back to preventing people from playing in the Mechs they want to use.

I have a lot of Mechs - probably over 100 - that I'd return for a refund if I could. Just because I own them doesn't mean I ever want to play them again. They're just not fun to play because they're not competitive.

I generally play 1 Mech exclusively on any given night. So yeah, you're preventing me from playing -or- you're requiring me to buy extra modules to equip a second Mech.

Meanwhile, you could just pretend and do it yourself without forcing the rest of us to have to deal with it. Just alternate Mechs every match. Presto! You have time-based R&R! No coding required!

Sorry, but it's a dumb idea that doesn't add anything in the current death match shooter environment, and would only be immersive in CW if CW were radically improved.

[FupDup]

cdlord, on 22 October 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Look, since this has no bearing on the actual game play, how about making it an option like cockpit glass? Some of you just want to log in and rampage, I'd like a little more immersion into the Battletech universe.... We could all have our cakes and eat it too.

I suspect that just like cockpit glass, most people would keep it turned off. I would probably be among the first to do so...

[Alex Morgaine]

cdlord, on 22 October 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

One of the things that was removed which broke immersion was Repair & Rearm. Now, I agree with most people that it was expensive and unfair to new players who couldn’t afford the repairs to their mech(s).

I propose reintroducing R&R but with time being the only cost required*. I would say 1.0 or 0.5 seconds per point of armor or health of destroyed components is sufficient. Look at Smurphy’s equipment lists and anything with a “Health” rating would be affected in addition to armor and internal structure. If you look, there are quite a few things that wouldn’t be affected by this, engines being the most prominent.

I would entertain a cbill cost to expedite the time duration, but it would need to be thoroughly tested and its only purpose is a cbill sink.

In terms of the available upgrades, FF and ES and Artemis, there is no difference in the time cost between these and the standard equipment.

*Cadets and players with less than 4 mechs are exempt from R&R.

Cut FFA costs by half to be cheaper to replace them endo and increase payout to compensate for R&R like originally.
Ammo is replaced full immediate out of stock, any past 0 remaining stock at 1/second, no 25% gaming the system.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Adding to the "use a repair timer to regulate instead of cbills" suggestion:

PGI could grant each faction a "repair facility pool", and increase the pool for each planet they hold.

Then any member of that faction could have their time to repair either shortened or lengthened depending on the amount of systems them controlled.... more resources = better equipped forces to fight with.

It would give us a reason to fight over planets, and differentiate CW as a more strategic place to play and Public as the "no repair" arcade mode.

They could even give strategically important planets a larger pool addition..

That my 2 cents.

[CDLord HHGD]

FupDup, on 22 October 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

I suspect that just like cockpit glass, most people would keep it turned off. I would probably be among the first to do so...

I play with my glass turned on. So there!