82 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

cdlord, on 22 October 2015 - 03:29 PM, said:

I play with my glass turned on. So there!

You're on an island.

[Gas Guzzler]

I probably missed the counter point to this, but doesn't repair and rearm further enforce energy weapons that don't need to be rearmed?

[Xmith]

Roadkill, on 22 October 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

So we back to preventing people from playing in the Mechs they want to use.

I have a lot of Mechs - probably over 100 - that I'd return for a refund if I could. Just because I own them doesn't mean I ever want to play them again. They're just not fun to play because they're not competitive.

I generally play 1 Mech exclusively on any given night. So yeah, you're preventing me from playing -or- you're requiring me to buy extra modules to equip a second Mech.

Meanwhile, you could just pretend and do it yourself without forcing the rest of us to have to deal with it. Just alternate Mechs every match. Presto! You have time-based R&R! No coding required!

Sorry, but it's a dumb idea that doesn't add anything in the current death match shooter environment, and would only be immersive in CW if CW were radically improved.

R&R would screw up balance worst than it is now.

Then again, could be interesting with R&R in place.

I would not mind trying it again.

This would give myself a good reason to sell mechs I probably would not play and use the monies toward repairs.

Plus the c-bills just from playing and winning is an added bonus.

Yeah, I think I can make it work.

[Xmith]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 October 2015 - 03:33 PM, said:

I probably missed the counter point to this, but doesn't repair and rearm further enforce energy weapons that don't need to be rearmed?

They have to repair the energy weapon if it's get blown off too. Also energy weapons are dependent on heatsinks. The lost of heatsinks can be just as costly in some respects.

[FupDup]

Xmith, on 22 October 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

They have to repair the energy weapon if it's get blown off too. Also energy weapons are dependent on heatsinks. The lost of heatsinks can be just as costly in some respects.

Destroyed ballistics/missiles and ammo explosions are also costly.

[Troutmonkey]

cdlord, on 22 October 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

I propose reintroducing R&R but with time being the only cost required*. I would say 1.0 or 0.5 seconds per point of armor or health of destroyed components is sufficient..

This is the least worst implementation of R&R that I've seen, and I still don't like it.

Even if only affected the CW queue it would reduce accessibility and make CW more of a ghost town than it already is.

[Funkin Disher]

I'd be totally behind this for CW.

Repair costs equal to X% of cost of components destroyed. Say 15% then tweak from there perhaps.
Repair time equal to X min per Y tons of the damaged mech (eg 1 min per 5 tons?), or X seconds per Y piece of equipment lost (eg 30 sec each).

Small chance of random piece of equipment for each component destruction you get
Middling chance of random piece of equipment for each assist you get
Good change of random piece of equipment for each kill you get

[Gas Guzzler]

Xmith, on 22 October 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

They have to repair the energy weapon if it's get blown off too. Also energy weapons are dependent on heatsinks. The lost of heatsinks can be just as costly in some respects.

Ammo based mechs are guaranteed to use their ammo, and risk getting weapons destroyed, ammo explosions, etc

Energy based mechs can survive a match using no ammo, losing no heatsinks, and not even suffering internal damage. Over a long period of time, energy heavy mechs will have more of a net gain, therefore making energy boats even more prevalent they are now. I suppose you would say the solution is to nerf the crap out of energy mechs and use there cheaper usage costs as a way to balance them, which is great for a long drawn out campaign style game, like perhaps the upcoming Battletech game, but overall would likely hurt the gameplay aspect of this match to match style game.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 22 October 2015 - 04:08 PM.

[Deathlike]

cdlord, on 22 October 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Look, since this has no bearing on the actual game play, how about making it an option like cockpit glass? Some of you just want to log in and rampage, I'd like a little more immersion into the Battletech universe.... We could all have our cakes and eat it too.

I've kinda suggested it should be implemented like this, but the thing is that such a system requires an iterative process and PGI is really bad @ this concept (like "pebbles of steel").

I'd rather rework it as a reward system instead of a straight out system of penalties. The problem is that PGI is also bad @ math.

Inevitably, it isn't going to work w/o a massive rework of the entire concept anyways.

[Khobai]

Quote

If this was a full fledged Battletech game with real salvage, real contracts, a real economy, and a real reason for R&R? Absolutely. But what we have is a shallow, Mechs for real money, robot shoot'em up without a whole heck of a lot else.

This. Just having R&R in of itself is NOT immersion. In order for something like R&R/salvage to be immersive there needs to be limited resources and continuity between missions. You need to feel like youre actually running a merc corp and balancing its budget; like MW2: mercenaries.

If we had to hire pilots for our mechs, hire mechanics, hire jumpships/dropships to transit us between systems, etc... and if we had an actual market system which regulated rarity of items and you couldnt just buy whatever you wanted. then R&R and salvage might make sense.

But when you just have R&R without any of those other elements it just comes off as a tax to player income and doesnt make the game more rewarding...

Edited by Khobai, 22 October 2015 - 05:04 PM.

[Tahribator]

As someone who recently tried a Wargaming title, no thank you. R&R is nothing but an annoyance.

[dario03]

The current system of R&R is the best system for R&R. No need to fix what isn't broken.

[MauttyKoray]

I would love to see the return of R&R but only for specific game modes. Those being:

-Campaign/Skirmish (AI opponent missions)

-Community Warfare (once the mode gets smoothed out and various missions are implemented, not just the standard 12 man attack/defend)

Something that should NOT implement R&R is Public Queue. It should be the place to gain CBills if you've had poor luck and cannot join a CW match or Campaign due to lack of armor/ammo.

[Damocles]

0bsidion, on 22 October 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

If this was a full fledged Battletech game with real salvage, real contracts, a real economy, and a real reason for R&R? Absolutely.

Just this. R&R doesn't need to be rewritten or re-imagined. Such ideas are a waste of time imo.
R&R as a piece of a system that includes those other items quoted; is what we should have been working towards for the past 4 years.

and the Quakewarrior crowd should keep their solo drop pug matches at no cost.

[Lucian Nostra]

Sorry but R&R didn't work when it came out once people started overloading ammo since 75% was replenished free so you just ran with dead tonnage and once people realized not repairing your engine had no impact we ceased doing that as well so the system was pointless.

It's already hard enough to get people in MWO to not cower behind rocks because of the games single death gameplay. Putting a punishment on dying or taking damage in the form of C-bill drops or a time penalty would just compound the issue further.

[CDLord HHGD]

FupDup, on 22 October 2015 - 03:29 PM, said:

You're on an island.

This is an online game with no relevance to real life. We're all on an island.

Lucian Nostra, on 22 October 2015 - 09:25 PM, said:

Sorry but R&R didn't work when it came out once people started overloading ammo since 75% was replenished free so you just ran with dead tonnage and once people realized not repairing your engine had no impact we ceased doing that as well so the system was pointless.

It's already hard enough to get people in MWO to not cower behind rocks because of the games single death gameplay. Putting a punishment on dying or taking damage in the form of C-bill drops or a time penalty would just compound the issue further.

I see no difference. And you all are missing the point. I have no idea how long it should take to repair, I just want more immersion and since it looks like you missed it, it can be optional!

[Dino Banino]

I agree to bring R & R back, but only for CW.

In fact, my ideal MWO would be
> Regular Drops ---> no C-Bill rewards; kind of like a practise lobby
> CW ---> yes C-Bills; the real thing

[Mothykins]

Archangel Dino, on 23 October 2015 - 04:55 AM, said:

In fact, my ideal MWO would be
> Regular Drops ---> no C-Bill rewards; kind of like a practise lobby
> CW ---> yes C-Bills; the real thing

So I'd basically never be able to buy mechs?

Classy.


R&R would require a working game economy and something like a proper salvage system.

[Nightmare1]

I could go for a time delay with the option of spending C-bills/MC to speed it up. The thing I really disliked about R&R back in the day, was that is was nothing more than a big money sink, and that was it. It was very hurtful to new pilots and irritating to experienced players.

Perhaps the best thing, would be to have R&R kick in after new players finish their Cadet Training and Tutorial. By that time, they should be able to purchase their first Mech. R&R also need not apply to trial Mechs.

A damage Mech could take a few minutes to repair, while a destroyed one could take several minutes.

The only potential downside is that it will hurt group drops. With the new tonnage limit, this means that groups will have a lot of downtime in between matches as they re-select and kit out new Mechs while trying to fit within the appropriate tonnage ranges. That's going to slow down group drops significantly and is a huge mark against R&R. Perhaps it would be better to restrict R&R to the CW queues? That would shake things up a bit and prevent the larger, more competitive Units from steamrolling quite as easily.

FupDup, on 22 October 2015 - 03:29 PM, said:

You're on an island.

I play with my glass on too, actually...

[FupDup]

cdlord, on 23 October 2015 - 04:32 AM, said:

This is an online game with no relevance to real life. We're all on an island.

I think that's an ironic argument to use, because in some cases that arguments in favor of RnR have been "it's more realistic" or "how does my mech magically get fixed between matches?"