98 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 27 October 2015 - 08:10 PM, said:

AC20 and Gauss Ravens beg to differ.

Hahahahahaha, wait you were serious?

Narcissistic Martyr, on 27 October 2015 - 08:10 PM, said:

More realisticaly, IS lights can share a single XL engine which can keep costs down.

That's very true, but one can can simply keep the omnipods and sell all but one variant of the Clan mechs, later on. Most Clan mechs are distinguished by omnipods, not variants. On the other hand, one simply does not sell different variants of a Hunchback, since they are all unique in their own way.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 October 2015 - 08:45 PM.

[Idealsuspect]

Maybe F2P isn't good for MWO.

I explain why:
1) When you put some money on something, you want have fun back and you will try to find how make it more fun as possible.
Even after fews games you feel you made a bad choice when buying this game you will keep playing a bit more and maybe for some others people a LOT more just because you put some money into. It's something psycological.
2) Any player know they have to grind in any multiplayer game but when you get something totally FREE in same time you feel FREE to put this in a garbage without any guilty feelings about your wallet..
3) It could be ( have to be ) a very tiny amount like 10 bucks or 15 ... tiny for any mature public ( guess this game aim a mature public ) and give of course MC.


Same time :Benefit for news customers
4) News players should have access to specifics " news players servers " also safe servers with people who are learning like them ( without us tier 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 and any players with mastered mechs and maybe thousand of matchs behind...).
5) They will have time for learn basiclly the game, fight with others new people to the game, mastering one mech maybe 2.
6) Have time for learn the maps, gamemode and dynamic of this game.

Communauty benefits
7) After a certain matchs number, maybe 300 or 400, they will have to insta-join veterans players ( they will have theirs tier rank or ELO they deserve and also be legit if MM do his work ) and also have a decent game experience for them and for veterans players they will have as teamates,
8a) Cash flow for PGI, which you deserve a this point ( a new game for a new player you get pay even 10 bucks, you provide them some MC and some premium time in 8b ).
8b) Same time you will give to any new veteran player some PREMIUM time ( they paid 10-15 bucks at beginning ) give them grinding fever
( you should ask why not give this PREMIUM time when they begin play? Cause they will insta-feel how you grind faster than without. Thing you can't be aware as new player ).
9) Maybe lower your prices ( in fact PGI have to do it ): Lower MC price, camo and paint price, Hero mechs price... 30% i dont know but something important 5% or 10% is peanuts with actuals price.
At this moment, they will put more money or put more time for cBills grind than actual new players does simply because they may enjoy the game even more and be proud to be a veteran player


10) Why make steam players and any new players pay and also disallow MWO be to be a real F2P like now??
Only for prevent stupids trolls to create new profils for play agaisnt news players endless yea it's almost only for that but like i explained above it can give tonns of benefits for everybody BUT ONLY IF PGI WANT TO BALANCE THEIRS BIZNESS MODEL AND BALANCE GAME EXPERIENCE FOR NEW PLAYERS CUSTOMERS yea you have to make some money but new players have to get their fun dose...




NB : I would add to this, something like pilots trees, but about weight class...
New pilots should have to grind rights for drive bigger mechs with grinding XP like we grind module or mechs skills.
Players need real goals and in this game more the mech is bigger, more basically it have to carry his team....
( in addition they will learning the game way better than now weight class by weight class... if someone know how play a light mech, by being sneaky or support his assauts teamates by recon or defensive support this player will know what mistake they have to avoid when they will have final right to drive an assaut mech for first time... like not stay alone, watch his back and of course focus in his role warfare " ASSAULT the others HEAVIES OR ASSAULTS mech and not focus on chasing a light 700 meters away from his team )
If a pilot want drive 100tons and take one important slot we all know that a new player can't carry enough for his team ( my first match i drove a trial atlas and even i play into team without kamikaze rushing like some others did, do and will do agin well i was simply was to noob for carry anything... i guess it's same for anybody... a new pilot in a jenner have less bad impact for his team, than a new pilot in a atlas )
Like in tribes 2 ascend ( another real F2P but really nicely balanced at end ), players had to unlock class, bigger class requiered more XP point than light one and required a different way of play, play way harder.

PGI can achieve thoses points, in fact any compagny is able too but i have to say that PGI haven't achieve those balance now. Make a steam release without working on all of this and well it will be a failure or semi-failure when with few balance it could be a succes or half sucess.

Edited by Idealsuspect, 28 October 2015 - 08:26 AM.

[Redbackz]

Dunno what you are worried about. Has PGI not introduced Pilot Tiers so that all new players will barely touch any of the current players for some time.
At least not until they have been fooled into thinking the game is fun as they will most likely win some fun games against the inexperienced players thinking they have a chance. Thus probably making some purchases from PGI. Then they will hit the wall where they meet the current Pilots and get a taste of Stompwarrior Online.

How ever Steam release pans out, PGI is responsible good or bad.

My prediction is Mostly negative reviews by steam players after it is released, although there are major changes upcoming judging by test center patch notes. (Funny how PGI puts such an effort in after all this time hoping for a good pay off in Steam release).

[ChewBaka]

Comparisons with other freemium games can be both meaningful and pointless.

You can't compare this to Heroes of the Storm. Paying players have no advantage over free players aside from merely having access to a larger roster initially plus costumes. Else the playind field is even. Not so in MWO where a meta mech will trump a stock mech.

You can't compare this to World of Tanks/Warships and just MWO is less grindy. Those games somehow manage to make the grind enjoyable enough to sustain interest from a massive player base. MWO fails badly in that regard, so being supposedly 'less grindy' doesn't matter one bit.

PGI needs to figure out what works for them. But I would agree with the OP in that in its current state, MWO will be DOA on Steam launch. The new player experience sucks. Still does even with the tutorial.

[STEF_]

oldradagast, on 27 October 2015 - 05:05 PM, said:

That's a failure on the part of PGI to provide something other than grind. IMHO, the solution is not to leave the grind in because "there's nothing else to do," but to create something else to do, and then scale back the long, slogging, and laughably obvious grind in the game.

100% agree.
From a newbie point's of view, the grind wall is impossible.
From a veteran point's of view, ....after having all the mechs, I really don't know what else to do: I drop with my friends because I have a lot of fun messing with them, laughing a lot (they try to teach me greek language, for instance), "blaming" the same poor guy if the match is a defeat (me ), cultural exchanges about food and local recipes, blaming Monpax for piloting trash-mechs only, etc.
That is, if there weren't those guys, I would not be here from a long time.
There is no content, aside the "always the same" skirmish.

[Torgun]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 27 October 2015 - 08:10 PM, said:

AC20 and Gauss Ravens beg to differ.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Torgun, on 28 October 2015 - 12:52 AM, said:

AC20 Raven is best raven.

[Vellron2005]

I've not bothered to read the whole thread, but OP, I hear you.. I understand..

I have only this to say..

TRIAL MECHS.

As for veteran players not having anything to do..

PVE is coming..

Edited by Vellron2005, 30 October 2015 - 01:42 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Idealsuspect, on 27 October 2015 - 09:14 PM, said:

Maybe F2P isn't good for MWO.

I explain why:
1) When you put some money on something, you want have fun back and you will try to find how make it more fun as possible.
Even after a few games you feel you made a bad choice when buying this game you will keep playing a bit more and maybe for some others people a LOT more just because you put some money into. It's something psycological.
2) Any player know they have to grind in any multiplayer game but when you get something totally FREE in same time you feel FREE to put this in a garbage without any guilty feelings about your wallet..
3) It could be ( have to be ) a very tiny amount like 10 bucks or 15 ... tiny for any mature public ( guess this game aim a mature public ) and give of course MC.


Same time :Benefit for news customers
4) News players should have access to specifics " news players servers " also safe servers with people who are learning like them ( without us tier 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 and any players with mastered mechs and maybe thousand of matchs behind...).
5) They will have time for learn basiclly the game, fight with others new people to the game, mastering one mech maybe 2.
6) Have time for learn the maps, gamemode and dynamic of this game.

Community benefits
7) After a certain matchs number, maybe 300 or 400, they will have to insta-join veterans players ( they will have theirs tier rank or ELO they deserve and also be legit if MM do his work ) and also have a decent game experience for them and for veterans players they will have as teamates,
8a) Cash flow for PGI, which you deserve a this point ( a new game for a new player you get pay even 10 bucks, you provide them some MC and some premium time in 8b ).
8b) Same time you will give to any new veteran player some PREMIUM time ( they paid 10-15 bucks at beginning ) give them grinding fever
( you should ask why not give this PREMIUM time when they begin play? Cause they will insta-feel how you grind faster than without. Thing you can't be aware as new player ).
9) Maybe lower your prices ( in fact PGI have to do it ): Lower MC price, camo and paint price, Hero mechs price... 30% i dont know but something important 5% or 10% is peanuts with actuals price.
At this moment, they will put more money or put more time for cBills grind than actual new players does simply because they may enjoy the game even more and be proud to be a veteran player


10) Why make steam players and any new players pay and also disallow MWO be to be a real F2P like now??
Only for prevent stupids trolls to create new profils for play agaisnt news players endless yea it's almost only for that but like i explained above it can give tonns of benefits for everybody BUT ONLY IF PGI WANT TO BALANCE THEIRS BIZNESS MODEL AND BALANCE GAME EXPERIENCE FOR NEW PLAYERS CUSTOMERS yea you have to make some money but new players have to get their fun dose...




NB : I would add to this, something like pilots trees, but about weight class...
New pilots should have to grind rights for drive bigger mechs with grinding XP like we grind module or mechs skills.
Players need real goals and in this game more the mech is bigger, more basically it have to carry his team....
( in addition they will learning the game way better than now weight class by weight class... if someone know how play a light mech, by being sneaky or support his assauts teamates by recon or defensive support this player will know what mistake they have to avoid when they will have final right to drive an assaut mech for first time... like not stay alone, watch his back and of course focus in his role warfare " ASSAULT the others HEAVIES OR ASSAULTS mech and not focus on chasing a light 700 meters away from his team )
If a pilot want drive 100tons and take one important slot we all know that a new player can't carry enough for his team ( my first match i drove a trial atlas and even i play into team without kamikaze rushing like some others did, do and will do agin well i was simply was to noob for carry anything... i guess it's same for anybody... a new pilot in a jenner have less bad impact for his team, than a new pilot in a atlas )
Like in tribes 2 ascend ( another real F2P but really nicely balanced at end ), players had to unlock class, bigger class requiered more XP point than light one and required a different way of play, play way harder.

PGI can achieve thoses points, in fact any compagny is able too but i have to say that PGI haven't achieve those balance now. Make a steam release without working on all of this and well it will be a failure or semi-failure when with few balance it could be a succes or half sucess.

Listen to this man PGI, he makes a lot of good points.

[Lugh]

Vellron2005, on 30 October 2015 - 01:40 AM, said:

I've not bothered to read the whole thread, but OP, I hear you.. I understand..

I have only this to say..

TRIAL MECHS.

As for veteran players not having anything to do..

PVE is coming..

Which unless it's VERY robust and replayable will keep many of them busy for a whole 16 hours or so.

[pbiggz]

Stefka Kerensky, on 27 October 2015 - 02:37 AM, said:

This happens when they are having fun.
If not, they fly away.
That's the reason why newbies should have MUCH MORE than trail mechs with awful loadout.
The more they have fun the more they will spend.

Now the noob experience is just a complete failure of fun.

QFT

[XenoBE]

jss78, on 27 October 2015 - 03:52 AM, said:

That said, I think it'd be a wasted opportunity to not further improve the NPE as much as possible, before going to Steam.

No need to pamper them. Noone likes being pampered. The new academy is more than enough.
This game isn't for everyone. Improving the NPE won't change that.

I've played MW2 and since then 'mechs have a special place in my gaming heart. It was the first game i got 'addicted' to.

i only started playing MWO about a month ago and i count myself as a Steam gamer.
In that month, i've spent over €150 which is more than triple what i normally would dish out for an AAA game. So they must be doing something right with their grind mechanics. (granted, i am usually drunk when purchasing...)
I didn't mind starting in T4. I had horrible matches but it helped me learn faster. i'm almost into T3 now...
I wanted to train against AI for maybe 10 minutes. So putting effort in AI is just not worth it.

I wouldn't worry about the NPE. the learning curve is steep but this isn't the sort of game that appeals to most people anyway. The right kind will stay, will play and will spend.

I'd worry about community warfare though. that not working smoothly will bother most people more. It's the glue that will stick people together and to this game.
making it more dynamic is a must.

Edited by XenoBE, 30 October 2015 - 02:37 PM.

[Onimusha shin]

Bobzilla, on 27 October 2015 - 05:21 PM, said:

Free to play is done wrong if players have the fun sucked out of the game so much, that the only way to enjoy it is to spend real money. It's done right if it's so fun that players get invested in the game to the point they want to spend money. MWO is basically a demo, with a promise if you spend money you get the full game, but in reality if you spend money, you get nothing more out of this game.

PGI needs to hire this guy =P

Captain Stiffy, on 27 October 2015 - 05:35 PM, said:

They want people to join the game because it is free-to-play and then spend money on it anyway but they don't want people to actually play it for free.

And PGI needs to fire those guys that think like that.

[Koniks]

tzetzefly, on 27 October 2015 - 02:27 AM, said:

BUT THIS only because I'm not a newbie.

MOREOVER, suddlently in tier 3 in few matches, a newbie will be in teams with and against tier 1-2

Your logic is inconsistent.

[STEF_]

Mizeur, on 01 November 2015 - 12:52 PM, said:

Your logic is inconsistent.

it is not: with another new account I manage to reach tier 3 in 7 (SEVEN) matches, while derping around and charging yolo

[Sabazial]

I'm pretty sure i'm correct when i say that a large number of current MWO players are already steam users, i am and i've played MWO since closed beta in 2012. I can't understand why people seem to insist that PGI getting the game on steam is going to suddenly plug the holes in the ship.

People are leaving the game because of it's mechanics, because of it's pricing, and because it's been the same game for the last 3+ years with little in the way of real improvements / additions other than the next mech pack dangled in front of us, with the same tired old promises that "big stuff is coming soon".

The guys on steam don't live in dimension X, if they are interested in mechwarrior or big stompy robots it's pretty much a given they already know about MWO. The only steam users we might get here will be the casual crowd that will see the game listed and think yeah that looks like it might be cool why not check it out.

No way are serious competitive players gonna be interested in the mess that MWO is right now, and the casual guys will lose interest really fast when they learn they need to grind out hundreds of matches to sort out 3 chassis of the same mech etc.

[oldradagast]

Charlie Pohr, on 27 October 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

You can't compare this to World of Tanks/Warships and just MWO is less grindy. Those games somehow manage to make the grind enjoyable enough to sustain interest from a massive player base. MWO fails badly in that regard, so being supposedly 'less grindy' doesn't matter one bit.

I can comment on the World of Tanks / Warships comparison; there are two big differences:

- in WoWS (and, I assume, WoT), the grind starts easy and eventually gets brutal. But the easy part lasts long enough to get people into the game and hopefully spending money. Also, you don't NEED high tier ships. They can be fun, but it's not like Tier 10's get throw against Tier 3's, so you don't really need them.

In MWO, on the other hand, the grind starts hard and stays that way. It doesn't get as bad as WoWS does at higher tiers, where you can lose money by playing, but it does start out MUCH harder. You need to get 3 of a mech type to elite them, you need to get hugely costly upgrades, etc. Also, in MWO, you effectively have Tier 10 mechs (fully leveled meta-mechs) playing against Tier 1 mechs (trials, useless junk, mechs without upgrades or skills, etc.), which makes it even worse.

- WoWS has far fewer decisions players can make about their ships. That's a drawback on one hand since it means less customization, but it also means a player can't spend his meager cadet bonus on total trash and then be dead in the water... which can easily happen in MWO, a game riddled with junk mechs, junk weapons, and junk "options" in general.

If you look it over, WoWS model is far more effective at bringing players in, having them feel effective, and retaining them. MWO has a big edge in freedom of choice, but the learning curve is brutal and there's no real incentive for newbies to stick around after getting rolled over and over again.

[TexAce]

I must be a very special snowflake then, since I came here 2012, where we only had to choose between 4 very bad trial mechs, no cadet bonus or any bonus whatsoever, and I'm still playing.

Why? Not because I'm a MW fan, I only played MW4 on single player once. No because this game is addicting. The matches can be brutal but so fun.

You all forget one thing: The fun is not in buying mechs, the fun is there on the battle field, when you have to stand your ground and sometimes end a match totally shaking, because you had to fight 3 enemy mechs on your own and you knew YOU HAVE A CHANCE. Thats what makes this game great.

Do cbills need ot be raised? Perhaps. 25%, not more in my opinion. PT up to 50% but that's it. Just to get back what we lost when 12vs12 came out.

I never felt like grinding anything in this game since every match I play could be one of those matches and this keeps me fighting. Never in a meta mech, never with all modules possible (hell I have one radar derp on one of my 41 mechs and i don't even know on which one, I have no clue how much PT I have accumulated throughout the 3 years with all the free giveaways, I never used it)

With that said, you are all a bunch of ******* if all that matters for you are the latest meta mechs and meta weapons. Sorry to say, but its true.

And now stop pussing around and get in that cockpit and blow someone's face off. That's what I'll do now.

Edited by TexAce, 01 November 2015 - 04:51 PM.

[Ph30nix]

New players who have completed their 25 matches and also completed the training stuff should be rewarded with their choice of a starter pack.

It doesn't have to be the best ones heck it could be the packs for the original four. They have to wait until after their 25 matches so they have less chance of picking one they hate. They will also have the cbills then to deck all 3 variants out however they like while they work on mastering them.