98 replies to this topic

[Hades Trooper]

Appogee, on 27 October 2015 - 02:36 AM, said:

You appear to be trying to provide feedback to PGI.

The General Forum is probably the least effective way to do that. All you'll get here is an angry mob agreeing with you, and a few white knights telling you that the real problem is you.

Twitter is probably your best chance.

the fact the mwo forums mean nothing and people need to go to twitter where Russ can block people asking the hard questions shows they aren't interested in dealing with the tough topics, just a fanfare of yes men who only agree with russ even when he makes aweful decisions, ie like no details on MASC till sale date was a deal breaker for me

[Hotthedd]

The problem is there is no endgame. The grind IS the endgame, CW means nothing, there is no immersion. It is a 'mech skinned arena twitch shooter. Period.

So if PGI were to give new players mo mechs, mo money, then what the hell will KEEP them here? They could drop the game any time knowing they can come right back a year later and not have missed a thing. There is certainly no "investment" in the game if they can get fully kitted out mechs with just a few hours worth of playing.

If you want PGI to give away free mechs and get rid of the grind, fine. But there better be a GAME by then. And then even so, who is going to pay to keep the servers running?

[Uncl Munkeh]

Hotthedd, on 27 October 2015 - 01:38 PM, said:

The problem is there is no endgame. The grind IS the endgame.....

Kinda like Groundhog Day....

[Revis Volek]

sycocys, on 27 October 2015 - 02:56 AM, said:

You could have purchased 3-4 mechs instead of a radar hack and a cheetah.

Or purchased a heavy/assault mech you enjoyed playing the trial version of.

upset he spent 6 mill on END GAME content and not MECHs.....

[Torgun]

FlipOver, on 27 October 2015 - 08:54 AM, said:

I don't agree.

People want more mechs and don't want to "waste" time to collect the c-bills:
Buy mastery packs.

Done.

If you are a freeloader and want to get more with no spending of time and cash, then MW:O isn't the game for you.
And I bet you at least 10% of the Steam people are not on that group (and 10% may be as many as 1k people or even more).

What about the other 90%? You may ask....
Well, those can go for other games and leave MW:O to be F2P.

Here's the thing you don't get. For this game not to have longer and longer wait times before a match starts with a smaller and smaller player base you actually need these so-called freeloaders. People that play for free or just plunk down a few dollars occasionally are also needed to keep this game alive. It's just wishful thinking this game can run with people that put hundreds or thousands of dollars into it each year. It's just real BT fanatics that would find this game has that kind of value, so if you want only fanatics with big wallets to play this game, then enjoy your 10+ min queue times.

Edited by Torgun, 27 October 2015 - 02:13 PM.

[Ted Wayz]

tzetzefly, on 27 October 2015 - 02:27 AM, said:

So, I managed to buy ONLY ONE MECH and seismic module, playing 41 matches.
And this because I'm not a newbie and thanks to 5 million from tutorial.

If I want 2 ach more, to elited and master them, it would take 130-140 matches.
BUT THIS only because I'm not a newbie.

MOREOVER, suddlently in tier 3 in few matches, a newbie will be in teams with and against tier 1-2, so I think it would take around 200 matches for a real new player.

So, do you really really think that there will be players wanting this, hundreds and handreds of matches to have stuff?
Do you really really think new players will open thier wallets meanwhile being wrecked and not having fun at all?

I hope that along with the mythical rebalance patch, you are really thinking something about what to do with the economy.
If not, Steam will be a complete failure.
Dropping with trail and always the same mech for hundreds of matches is the most boring playing experience EVER.
Period.



Think about let players use every chassis, and try to find out a different way to get real money from playerbase.

Thanks for reading.

It will be fail because like many you have not bought MC and your are not buying the best mechs for $$. If PGI doesn't figure out how to monetize players like you and Steam players, then MWO will fail.

[STEF_]

Torgun, on 27 October 2015 - 02:09 PM, said:

Here's the thing you don't get. For this game not to have longer and longer wait times before a match starts with a smaller and smaller player base you actually need these so-called freeloaders. People that play for free or just plunk down a few dollars occasionally are also needed to keep this game alive. It's just wishful thinking this game can run with people that put hundreds or thousands of dollars into it each year. It's just real BT fanatics that would find this game has that kind of value, so if you want only fanatics with big wallets to play this game, then enjoy your 10+ min queue times.

That the point, and we have those old BT and MW fanatics all already here.
That's why I wrote "Steam release will be a complete failure": no Bt or MW fanatics coming from there. Not a single one.
So, I wish PGI make things easier and more fun for new comers.

It's the only way to fatten the playerbase. And we really need to fatten the playerbase. See the huge and horrible waiting time for a match.

Forget to collect new players giving them 10 milions in 41 matches (ok, more with tutorials), forcing them to pilot always the same mech for hundreds of matches. Forget they will open thier wallets if they aren't having fun.

[oldradagast]

Apnu, on 27 October 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

Dunno if anybody pointed this out yet but the ACH-C is 7,617,336 c-bills. A FS9-S is 3,231,842 c-bills.

For the price of one ACH, a player could get two Firestarters, making the mastery curve much easier.

Picking an expensive clan mech as the first mech is not a good move.

And the Firestarter needs Double Heat Sinks (a tax, basically), Endo, and an XL engine... and when all that's done, it's not much cheaper than the ACH.

As for the NPE, it is still poor, though not as terrible as it was when there was no tutorial and the trial mechs were laughable stock builds that have no place in a game full of customized mechs. Still, the pinpoint alpha has only increased and there's still no system to help the new players be anything other than fodder as they "derp" around in trials or horribly customized mechs because they don't know any better.

[oldradagast]

Hotthedd, on 27 October 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

So all of the players that started the game with REALLY bad trial mechs, Repair and re-arm costs, no cadet bonuses, no training academy bonuses (or tutorial of any kind), all ragequit the game after 100 matches or so? Why am I still here?

PGI doesn't need to chase the FoTM kiddies that won't ever spend a dime anyway. They just need to hook some of them.

Good game design is not a passing fad that nobody can understand and changes monthly so "why bother?" MWO, while not a bad game, has an objectively poor NPE, dismal match-making, high prices, an over-inflated grind combined with terrible payouts, and a near total lack of any useful instructions or guides in the game to give new players any help whatsoever. The game itself also lacks any depth or IP specific flavor, too, which is needless and depressing. Again, this is not "flavor of the month" - all of these problems have been understood in some form since first successful free to play game game into being - or even the first subscription online games.

All of this is identifiable and needs to be addressed. We need actual effort and solutions, not "back in my day, life sucked, so your life should suck, too!" as seems to be the response from some mix of bitter-vets or grognards.

Edited by oldradagast, 27 October 2015 - 04:11 PM.

[Coolant]

OP is forgetting the Cadet Bonus. That is around 10 million + 5 Million for tutorial = 15 million.

[Summon3r]

PurpleNinja, on 27 October 2015 - 02:34 AM, said:

I may be wrong, but the point of free to play model is to make people buy stuff.

you are indeed wrong

attract customers, provide enjoyable fun environment to play in where getting new shinnies doesnt take a century, keep customers, some will spend some will not.

i used to be a high paying customer, mwo failed to keep me satisfied.

[Joseph Mallan]

tzetzefly, on 27 October 2015 - 02:27 AM, said:

So, I managed to buy ONLY ONE MECH and seismic module, playing 41 matches.
And this because I'm not a newbie and thanks to 5 million from tutorial.

If I want 2 ach more, to elited and master them, it would take 130-140 matches.
BUT THIS only because I'm not a newbie.

MOREOVER, suddlently in tier 3 in few matches, a newbie will be in teams with and against tier 1-2, so I think it would take around 200 matches for a real new player.

So, do you really really think that there will be players wanting this, hundreds and handreds of matches to have stuff?
Do you really really think new players will open thier wallets meanwhile being wrecked and not having fun at all?

I hope that along with the mythical rebalance patch, you are really thinking something about what to do with the economy.
If not, Steam will be a complete failure.
Dropping with trail and always the same mech for hundreds of matches is the most boring playing experience EVER.
Period.



Think about let players use every chassis, and try to find out a different way to get real money from playerbase.

Thanks for reading.

Just a small thing I been seeing in SWTOR. You ONLY played 41 games. I played TT for the better part of 25 years... earning Mechs is not supposed to the goal of the game. Its the fighting. I have played for over 3 years and I have 15 is Mechs and use ONE 95% of the time. It ain't about the collecting.

[EmperorMyrf]

Making intro equipment viable would go a long way to improving both the NPE and the grind. The advantage gaps between SHS and DHS, STD and XL, STD armor and FF, STD internals and Endo are far too large and it essentially raises the price of what is considered a viable mech.

Bridging the gap between these techs will improve the value of each CBill by roughly 300% depending on the chassis and will drive those upgrades to more of an "end-game content" level instead of a "make sure you can afford both the mech and its upgrades before you buy it" level. It looks like some effort is being done by the devs to improve these lesser techs so I'm hopeful. Still skeptical but hopeful.

[Hotthedd]

oldradagast, on 27 October 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

We need actual effort and solutions, not "back in my day, life sucked, so your life should suck, too!" as seems to be the response from some mix of bitter-vets or grognards.

That is not what I was trying to say.

My point was that the NPE and the grind used to be far, far worse, and people stuck around anyway. If PGI eliminates any grind, then there will be no need for investment (time or money) from the new players. The game is not in beta anymore, there has to be an actual game to keep players, especially if they are given too much to start the game.

I'm not railing against new player bonuses (PGI gave veterans the same cadet bonus in a lump sum to be fair), I'm railing against giving new players no reason to invest in the game.

[oldradagast]

Hotthedd, on 27 October 2015 - 04:56 PM, said:

That is not what I was trying to say.

My point was that the NPE and the grind used to be far, far worse, and people stuck around anyway. If PGI eliminates any grind, then there will be no need for investment (time or money) from the new players. The game is not in beta anymore, there has to be an actual game to keep players, especially if they are given too much to start the game.

I'm not railing against new player bonuses (PGI gave veterans the same cadet bonus in a lump sum to be fair), I'm railing against giving new players no reason to invest in the game.

That's a failure on the part of PGI to provide something other than grind. IMHO, the solution is not to leave the grind in because "there's nothing else to do," but to create something else to do, and then scale back the long, slogging, and laughably obvious grind in the game.

[Bobzilla]

It makes no logic to buy PT to increase cbill earnings as you are still doing the exact same thing, which if you don't enjoy it... You're better off buying a pack or the mech directly.

I've quickly noticed that cbills mean absolutely nothing. If you don't like the grind then buying PT or mechs with real money does nothing as you still have to grind (so you will quit). If you like the game, but are casual/new the grind (altho enjoyable) will become stale if you don't earn enough to have the temp change of buying new mechs.

Free to play is done wrong if players have the fun sucked out of the game so much, that the only way to enjoy it is to spend real money. It's done right if it's so fun that players get invested in the game to the point they want to spend money. MWO is basically a demo, with a promise if you spend money you get the full game, but in reality if you spend money, you get nothing more out of this game.

Edited by Bobzilla, 27 October 2015 - 05:22 PM.

[Captain Stiffy]

They want people to join the game because it is free-to-play and then spend money on it anyway but they don't want people to actually play it for free.

[Deathlike]

Captain Stiffy, on 27 October 2015 - 05:35 PM, said:

They want people to join the game because it is free-to-play and then spend money on it anyway but they don't want people to actually play it for free.

You actually have to make it enjoyable for extended periods for people not minding to throw money at it.

The problem is that this game gets a tiny subset of that due to the poor NPE and purpose. CW has no endgame purpose... as it's not taken seriously (by the playerbase... let alone PGI).

So.. when there's nothing to look forward to.. there's no reason to play. That's even before you are trying to figure out which mech "works for you" w/o spending C-bills/MC and making grave/expensive mistakes along the way... things that usually put people off on a game.

[fat4eyes]

Raggedyman, on 27 October 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

Explain again how putting a game, that's been good enough to run for two years, on a platform with over 11 million active users can do the game harm?

Okay, so the current version of the game may not be able to take the most advantage of the situation, but how would it crush the game or do anything that detrimental?

The sky is not falling, no matter how much you want it to be.

Steam is most likely the make or break moment for MWO. It has ONE chance to do well. If it goes well PGI will have the resources to expand the game and we'll have stompy robots for years to come. If it doesn't, it will get put into maintenance mode to die a slow death as PGI tries to find the next thing that will keep them fed. That's why the state of the game at Steam release matters.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

El Bandito, on 27 October 2015 - 03:04 AM, said:

An IS Light mech without DHS and big engine is not a mech--its trash. And when you upgrade those IS Light mechs, they become no less expensive than Clan Lights.

AC20 and Gauss Ravens beg to differ.

More realisticaly, IS lights can share a single XL engine which can keep costs down.