25 replies to this topic

[Relek Nom]

What is the point, mechs rarely go into the sea in maps such as river city, forest colony, crimson straight..... The only time I ever use the sea is when I'm in a fast mech and want to flank without being seen.

It's wide open space that no sane heavy or assault would go near. The only solution I could think of bar a full map redo to make it land would be to add ships to add some cover so all types can use the space

[TWIAFU]

Relek Nom, on 27 October 2015 - 03:24 AM, said:

What is the point, mechs rarely go into the sea in maps such as river city, forest colony, crimson straight..... The only time I ever use the sea is when I'm in a fast mech and want to flank without being seen.

It's wide open space that no sane heavy or assault would go near. The only solution I could think of bar a full map redo to make it land would be to add ships to add some cover so all types can use the space

1. Cover
2. Heat dissipation
3. Different landscapes/environments are good
4. Not every pilot is a lemming

[El Bandito]

Well, it is kind of a buff to Light mechs. Since water reduces damage, the Lights can be pretty damn durable, depending on how submerged it is.

[Elizander]

It'd be nice if submerging affected more DHS than just in the legs.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Maps need MORE water. Water needs to be everywhere (even in Tourmaline) .

I say this (kind of jokingly) because one of the "sells" for Single Heat Sinks is that you could install them in a mech's legs and it would increase the mechs cooling capabilities. Therefore, if water was all over the darn place, maybe SHS wouldn't be so bad (which of course it still would).

Actually, if water was like a coolant flush in how rapidly it cools a mech with SHS in the legs, and water could be found all over the place, maybe SHS could actually be useful (very inefficient when compared to DHS on dry land, but better cooling than DHS in water). Hmm. Only bummer is, you aren't finding water on HPG manifold, Terra, Tourmaline, or even Alpine (since it is all solid ice).

Boy, I really posted a large heat sink brainstorm starting with a simple Water everywhere joke. Huh.

[Raubwurst]

What do you eant to say? There should be no water on the maps, because you cannot use it?

I have seen lights taking great advantage of it (beyond being sneaky).
It gives open space, too, thus being needed for non-brawl & non-lrm ranged weaponry.
It gives a map a feeling of diversity and (not sure about the correct english term) "correctness".

Saying, that there would be too much wate sounds kind of saying "There are too much buildings in River City. Delete half of it, so non-brawler can use the space, too."

Not every aspekt of the maps have to be made perfectly for 'Mech combat. Especially not natural components, that just exists and don't care about our stompy warfare.

[Relek Nom]

The point I was trying to make very badly was that the water areas are not used that much. I'd love a water only map or a flat map for all out carnage.

But take the three maps I mentioned in my op, how often do you see a battle in the large water areas. . once in a blue moon. And it really gets to me, on C.S. When most are in the tunnel or near I love flanking from the water but no one ever joins me because there is little cover and it's seen as a suicide run. When in reality I rarely die because the move causes a bit of panic and my team push (some of the time).

[Tarogato]

In competitive play, water is used a lot. One of the foundational strategies competitive teams use is to spread out their mechs in open ground as a firing line. Large bodies of water enable this.

[Myke Pantera]

Because there are 2 ways to limit the size of a map: Wall/Mountain or Water. Open plains with out-of-bounds messages for no apparent reason would be silly. Water with out-of-bounds suggests too deep water and doesn't ruin immersion (completely).

[KuroNyra]

[CDLord HHGD]

From an offensive/defensive perspective, water offers several advantages and several disadvantages. I have won many times from water. Would be nice if water resisted mech movement a bit though, for realism.

[Mad Porthos]

Raubwurst, on 27 October 2015 - 03:36 AM, said:

What do you eant to say? There should be no water on the maps, because you cannot use it?

I have seen lights taking great advantage of it (beyond being sneaky).
It gives open space, too, thus being needed for non-brawl & non-lrm ranged weaponry.
It gives a map a feeling of diversity and (not sure about the correct english term) "correctness".

Saying, that there would be too much wate sounds kind of saying "There are too much buildings in River City. Delete half of it, so non-brawler can use the space, too."

Not every aspekt of the maps have to be made perfectly for 'Mech combat. Especially not natural components, that just exists and don't care about our stompy warfare.

You're right, but unfortunately there are those who look at this from a purely game perspective - and will say things like that the geometry of a more "natural" layout is unbalanced, or that because a given structure or landscape item like a mountain is not perfectly mirrored somewhere on the side that the enemy started on as well, that the map is biased, unbalanced or "broken".

This then leads to uninspired maps where you see crafted terrain features that do not make sense, like small mountains in the middle of cities, central terrain features that seem designed (cause they were) to serve certain functions in a game, rather than real world uses where giant stompy robots are NOT fighting each other and rather people are trying to work, ship goods, eat and engage in commerce.

Asymetric maps based on real terrain, possibly with larger boundries as well is something this game needs, with water levels deeper than simply ankle or waist deep. One particular reason that has not been the case though, I suspect is the whole hiding when you are the last mech issue. Maps that had any significant amount of deeper water would have a proliferation of places for those hiding mechs to remain hidden, meaning at the end of a match that is already decided, there would be alot more complaints as the winner would have to send scouts... or even their assaults to slowly, ponderously go into underwater lakes, trenches and backwaters just to kill that hold out.

Another issue is combat. Combat wholly underwater I suspect would make issues with LRMS and SRMS, which I think may explode on contact with water. Further laser is disspated by water, even in the game engine - that is to say, I understand even as is if you are aiming at the legs of a mech that are under water, you will do little or no damage because of passing through water. Even ballistics might be effected by this. So how are you going to fight if you do find an enemy mech, underwater, shut down or even afk? You cannot flush him out. There is no melee. Your missiles, even Srm may explode when fired. Your ballistics and lasers might not even hit for any significant damage even if you think you are pressed right up against their hull. That has to be resolved somehow before you ever see deeper water maps.

[Sjorpha]

Too much water?

No I don't think so, but it's way too shallow. Why is there no deep water where we can hide our King Crabs and pretend to be ancient sea monsters? Outrageous, PGI pls fix.

(last mech alive shutting down underwater to grief would totally not happen, we promise.)

Edited by Sjorpha, 27 October 2015 - 04:53 AM.

[InsaneRotta]

I saw a nice match on twitch were a team spread out into the water on River City. They formed a good firing line and had range on the other team. Of course no cover ment that they took lots of damage, but they won regardless...

[sycocys]

Sjorpha, on 27 October 2015 - 04:51 AM, said:

Too much water?

No I don't think so, but it's way too shallow. Why is there no deep water where we can hide our King Crabs and pretend to be ancient sea monsters? Outrageous, PGI pls fix.

(last mech alive shutting down underwater to grief would totally not happen, we promise.)

I can see the twitch streams with people playing the Jaws theme

[Spleenslitta]

OP is right. We rarelly go into the wide open water areas. We will cross rivers and light mechs might cross the water when they flank to take a longer but safer route to their destination.
That's all we activly use water for at the moment and that is sadly the truth.

When i saw the rewamped Forest Colony and River City maps i was eager to try those maps.
Then they were released and i was pleased but those wide open water areas were solid disapointments.
If they wanted variety in the terrain they could have had most of that water in the out of bounds part of the maps.

[FrontGuard]

introducing the Water Troll...
He is big and wet.

[Valdherre Tor]

Relek Nom, on 27 October 2015 - 03:24 AM, said:

What is the point, mechs rarely go into the sea in maps such as river city, forest colony, crimson straight..... The only time I ever use the sea is when I'm in a fast mech and want to flank without being seen.

It's wide open space that no sane heavy or assault would go near. The only solution I could think of bar a full map redo to make it land would be to add ships to add some cover so all types can use the space

Too much Salt

In fact there is so much salt in this game that if PGI got rid of all the salt there wouldn't be anyone left to play the game. Though I'm not trying to sound salty but go ahead with the water thing you were talking about.

[FrontGuard]

To much Air....

I totally think there is to much wide open Air in this game...
Please Fix now!!!

[sycocys]

They should have put a huge pond/lake dead in the middle of the new Forest Colony with some tree stumps scattered through it. Would have actually made it more interesting than all the dead space with the water on the outside of the map.