192 replies to this topic

[Chryckan]

Have a suggestion for yet another flanking fail comic.

Was in a game all the lights and mediums just rush across the map in a wide circle so the came at the enemy from the side while leaving the fat mechs far behind. After the predictable team stomp I asked why they rushed a head and got the reply that they were flanking while we the fat guys just hid behind a hill. It isn't the first time I've seen this happen though it's the first time anyone admitted to "flanking".

So how a about a comic where the smaller mech rush away in a circle to "flank" while the big mechs is far far behind wondering where the smaller ones got to before the stomp for fail.
And one where the big mechs first engage the enemy before the smaller ones runs around to bring home the point that you can only flank a previously engage enemy.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

Hmm, got a couple of ideas.

• Setting up ambushes:
  
  Good ambush: team has a scout or two reporting enemy positions and movement. Possibly has another scout being a squirrel and baiting the enemy team to come for him (likely baiting light lance in). Ally team sets up firing lines in blind spots behind terrain, and alphas the poor sod coming in behind the squirrel.
  
  Bad ambush: team has no scouts reporting enemy positions and movement. Sets up firing line in open terrain, maybe behind one or two tall rocks or buildings. Enemy team scouts spot them without being spotted, proceeds to flank as the red team keeps waiting on their ambush target path. Red team gets wrecked because their ambush got flanked.
  
• Missile support
  Good missile support: finds a place where he has the good amount of cover, with good firing lines to most of the map. Stays close enough to the team that lights and mediums can come to help if he gets rushed by lights. Knows not to fire missiles at enemies close to tall cover.
  Bad missile support: Uses teammates for cover, or uses cover which has poor firing lines to most of the map, or just one possible target. Continues to fire missiles into walls or tall cover, or at extreme ranges. Often hangs back too far and gets assassinated by enemy lights.

[White Bear 84]

Sereglach, on 27 October 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

This is phenomenal, despite the simplicity of it. You manage to outline some very solid, yet simple, tactics that people should be paying attention to in both PUG and Group Queues. Excellent work; and I look forward to seeing it continue to grow.

These are simply amazing - and so simple too. It would go a long way for new players to review these over and over.. ..perhaps even if PGI added something like this to the loading screen to encourage players to well... ...play well.

I have a couple more ideas for the OP;

- Shooting down UAVS (something that is not done nearly enough)
- Actually checking for UAV's
- Strategic placement of UAV's
- Light sniping/and/or flankings

[fat4eyes]

New comic! A rather simple one this time on how to handle a wolfpack.

Spoiler

Spoiler

The best defense against wolfpacks is to be with your team. But if you do get jumped by a wolfpack when you're in a slow mech, here's what you can do:

1. Put your back against a wall to protect your rear armor.
2. Pop a UAV and call for help from your team.
3. Stay with your back against the wall and shoot at the enemies as they move past you. Keep your back protected.
4. Help your teammates to drive off the lights when they arrive.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Three chokepoint comics are coming after this one, and at least 1 ambush comic is in the pipeline.

[Sereglach]

White Bear 84, on 02 November 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

These are simply amazing - and so simple too. It would go a long way for new players to review these over and over.. ..perhaps even if PGI added something like this to the loading screen to encourage players to well... ...play well.

Another thing I love about the simplicity and quality of them is the fact that they don't make it look like perfect play is going to result in no friendlies going down. Frankly, I only see that happen extremely rarely (as much as people scream about stomps, they're not that common). In a solid push you may lose some of your mechs, or it may even come down to a really close game if both teams are playing correctly. Friendly losses happen, and players shouldn't be given the illusion that they'll never go down if they play right.

White Bear 84, on 02 November 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

I have a couple more ideas for the OP;

- Shooting down UAVS (something that is not done nearly enough)
- Actually checking for UAV's
- Strategic placement of UAV's
- Light sniping/and/or flankings

Flanking maneuvers are covered, and so are wolf-packs. Really these premises apply no matter what weight class you're in. I think the basics of sniping could be covered, but once you get into the nuances of advanced strategy . . . you've then overstepped the bounds of these comics teachings of elementary strategy (and turning people into Modern Major Generals).

UAV spotting and shooting down might be coverable, but proper placement you can't cover with comics like this (as much as I wish they could). Proper placement of a UAV really is dependent on map, enemy locations, high grounds, and whether the enemy actually has people paying attention. There are far too many factors to cover in these comics. It's something that really requires practice and inherent knowledge of the maps and enemies.

Also, what some people consider "good" placement really isn't all that great. Scanning the whole team might be great for your xp gains, but if you KNOW that the enemy is going to shoot it down within 5-10 seconds (barely long enough to get your xp and cbill gains), then your UAV actually failed. The purpose is to give solid and consistent intelligence over enemy movements and positioning, as well as targeting locks, over an area, for a lasting period of time.

Granted, I use LOTS of UAVs for that exact xp gain purpose when grinding mechs, but they're tactically failed UAVs nonetheless. However, when someone says "LRM boat here, get locks, please" then I make sure to not squander my UAV; but my ability to do so has come from a great deal of trial and error and experience (and even then sometimes the enemy just has someone with eyes like a hawk).

Again, as much as I wish these comics could actually teach how to use a UAV effectively, I don't think they really can. Spotting and shooting down is one thing (and I think it's a great idea), but proper use is another entirely.

EDIT: Let me add that my statements about UAV's are in regards to their use for scouting and spotting purposes, which I believe is the suggestion by White Bear (please correct me if I'm wrong). There are LOTS of UAV uses that can be applied to various other scenarios (as shown in the comic just posted by the OP).

Edited by Sereglach, 02 November 2015 - 04:33 PM.

[LORD ORION]

fat4eyes, on 27 October 2015 - 05:51 AM, said:

P.S. This is not yet complete. I will add more comics when I am able.

Great job... +1 to this being an official MWO guide, with animation!

[White Bear 84]

Sereglach, on 02 November 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

EDIT: Let me add that my statements about UAV's are in regards to their use for scouting and spotting purposes, which I believe is the suggestion by White Bear (please correct me if I'm wrong). There are LOTS of UAV uses that can be applied to various other scenarios (as shown in the comic just posted by the OP).

Yup, I was thinking scouting and spotting purposes, but I am thinking mostly along the lines of "holy crap, are these guys cheating cuz im getting lrm'd behind cover", "Oh its a uav.." kinda situation. Or where you get seismic and communicate over comms, but the team remains oblivious to say, a flank and you need to place one in order for the team to spot their impending doom.. etc etc etc.

I mean, if you get one placed behind the enemy team that is great - kudos for not being spotted in the process; and this is also situational based on maps.. ..but yeah, too many times see uavs go up and watch as the team just let's themselves get shot to death by lrms, or flanked without realising.

I think there is some importance in finding a way to visualise how this works, so players know what to check for and when etc etc.. ..for example, light runs up to a team, almost suicidal - takes a few shots and runs off.. ..chances *sometimes* are they placed UAV directly above the team, but all too often this goes unnoticed.

So there is also countering UAV's, having at least one player in the rear that can spot uavs go up etc etc...

Edited by White Bear 84, 02 November 2015 - 04:56 PM.

[QuulDrah]

This needs to be stickied...

Can you do one stressing the importance of 'R'?

No 'R':
- One mech sees enemy, fires some ER Large Ls, and wonders why noone reacts from his team.
- On the minimap, one of your teams runs in tiny circles for no apparent reason? *shrugs* just enjoying the landscape 360*
With 'R': (better yet, UAV)
- Team sees read blip on minimap, comes to help/fires some LRMs.

On the receiving side: missiles out of nowhere? no red in sight? check the skies!

Or similar

Edited by QuulDrah, 03 November 2015 - 11:33 AM.

[TygerLily]

Smart comic! Well done!

[fat4eyes]

New comic! It's the first in a series about chokepoints.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Chokepoints are great when you're defending. It's the terrain doing your job for you: maximizing your firepower while minimizing the enemy's.

The enemy going through a chokepoint is not an instant win though. Your team has to guard the chokepoint properly to take best advantage of it.

• If you guard it too close, your team won't have enough time to concentrate fire on their lead mechs until they close to a brawl. Once a brawl is joined, the advantage is lost and it comes down to individual skill and luck, not tactics.
  
• If you guard it too far, the enemy won't take enough damage going out of the chokepoint because your shots will be less accurate or have less damage due to range.
  
• You have to guard it so that most of the team's weapons are still effective, yet far enough away to have enough time to do damage. It's hard to put a definite number on this range because of the variation on loadouts, player aiming skills and the terrain just outside a chokepoint, but I've found for most PUG matches guarding from around 400m away seems to be a sweet spot (mostly out of range of srms and medium pulse lasers, but still in range for medium lasers).

Sereglach, White Bear 84, at least 1 UAV comic is in my to-do list, though it may be a while before it comes out. It will be about where and when to/not to pop a uav (behind and close to an enemy, to reveal a flanking attack, and just before a brawl).

[Sereglach]

fat4eyes, on 03 November 2015 - 02:09 PM, said:

*snip*

Excellent new addition. Keep them coming. Only fair warning on the UAV one . . . try not to get into too complex or abstract of situations, or newer players may feel overwhelmed. Awesome to see you're tackling every concept you can get your hands on, though.

[Repasy Cooper]

this needs to be pinned. NAO.

[Zainadin]

I'd love to see a comic of how to enter the center of Terra Therma. Basically a good example of a door breach and a fail or two like; stopping in the doorway, clearing corners, spacing, firing angles and other common mistakes.

[fat4eyes]

New comic! Second one of the chokepoint series, on how to push a guarded chokepoint:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Pushing through a guarded chokepoint is usually a bad idea. But if you HAVE to do it, you must do it as a team. Your goal is to get out of your disadvantaged position as quickly as possible, and minimize the amount of damage your team takes as you go out of the chokepoint. Here's one way to do it:

• The entire team pushes hard out of the chokepoint, firing whenever they can and torso twisting to spread damage. EVERYONE must move, staying behind just gives the enemy an advantage.
  
• Once out of the chokepoint, most of the mechs go for a flank of the enemy. This has 3 purposes: 1) Going for the enemy's flanks lessens the chance you'll be flanked on both sides as you come out, 2) it unbalances the enemy as they have to adjust their positions to deal with your push, and 3) moving sideways relative to the enemy makes it harder for them to aim for your central torso.
  
• At the same time, a small distraction force of fast mechs go the other way and try to draw as much fire away from your main force as possible. The longer the distraction lasts, the better.
  
• Once you've formed your battle line outside the chokepoint, the battle proceeds as normal.

Use anything that will reduce the enemy's advantage as you go out of the chokepoint. Use artillery and airstrikes to disrupt their formation. Blind-fire LRMs onto the enemy to make them go into cover. If you have many autocannons, use it to scare as many of the enemy's mechs as possible into torso twisting or getting into cover. Use anything at all that reduces the enemy's advantage as you push out.

And don't underestimate the fear factor of a big push as well. The bigger and more aggressive your push is, the better. I've seen chokepoint defenders scatter in disarray at the sight of 3 assaults followed by their entire team coming out of a chokepoint with all guns blazing.

tl/dr: EVERYONE pushes, most go towards a flank, fast mechs do a distraction on the other side, be as scary as possible.

Zainadin, on 04 November 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

I'd love to see a comic of how to enter the center of Terra Therma. Basically a good example of a door breach and a fail or two like; stopping in the doorway, clearing corners, spacing, firing angles and other common mistakes.

I don't have any plans on doing map-specific comics as yet. Terra Therma is a strange case though. Usually the best option you have if the enemy already has the center is not to force a breach on one chokepoint, but use 2 or more entrances to put the enemy in a crossfire, trick the enemy into guarding one chokepoint then pushing the other, or lure the enemy out into an ambush. I have comics on feints and ambushes in my todo list, I'll probably mention Terra Therma there.

Edited by fat4eyes, 04 November 2015 - 04:37 PM.

[Sereglach]

fat4eyes, on 04 November 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

*snip*

"I better get a damn medal for this." . . . Ah, how I have been in that place so many times. It's virtually suicide, but it's better for the team as a whole. I wish more people realized that sometimes the best course of action for the team will result in sacrificing your mech.

[TanE]

Funny and very true!

Vote 4 sticky and for ingame implementation, too.

[fat4eyes]

Another chokepoint comic! It's the most common way teams lose in a chokepoint.

Spoiler

Spoiler

When your team is already pushing a chokepoint, getting cold feet and trying to get to cover will not only make your team lose the match, it will get you killed faster. The time it takes to go from full speed to full reverse is about 1-2 seconds, and that's enough time for 12 enemy mechs to kill you. When you're already pushing, your best hope for survival is to give the enemy more targets to shoot at (your teammates behind you), not getting into cover and blocking your teammates.

(This message has been paid for by the Terra Therma Widow's Society)

[Fox With A Shotgun]

This comic holds so much truth. It always makes me rather angry to see people milling aimlessly about the entrances in Terra Therma when I'm already inside taking cover by the tall boxes in front of the entrance.

[bayoucowboy]

These are excellent! Kudos!

[loopala]

best way to bust an ambush is to charge though it. same with a choke point. i wish i had a nickel for every time i have tried to explain that at the pug zapper. Charge in one mech go right one mech go left do not stop