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Visibility Vs Fun On New Maps


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#1 Alistair Winter

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 06:08 AM

I'm wondering what views you guys have on visibility on maps. Both in terms of different vision modes (normal, heat, nightvision) and foliage that blocks line of sight without actually blocking weapon fire.

A lot of people seem unhappy with Forest Colony because of the trees, and unhappy with Caustic because it has pretty poor visibility in all three vision modes. On many maps, I find myself constantly swapping between different vision modes in the middle of the action. That's not really one of the entertaining elements of MWO for me. It's not like real life, where you can actually adjust night vision or heat vision for the situation at hand. In real life, it's not like heat vision (IR / Thermal) is useless in the desert, because everything is so hot.

I don't know if this is a universal factor in all PVP games with forest / jungle maps, but it's a shame that many MWO players are running graphics on 'low' because it offers so much better visibility.

What are your preferences and what's your solution to the visibility problem? Should PGI take a different approach with new maps, or should they focus on aesthetics and realism first and just accept that tryhards gonna tryhard?

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#2 Kira Onime

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 06:16 AM

Mid range graphics right now.

Main concern is keeping this game at a steady and acceptable frame rate.

#3 Hardin4188

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 06:16 AM

The game looked fine at launch. Always ran bad, but looked fine. Now I can't see anything on the new maps and have to turn my brightness way up and the details way down.

#4 FupDup

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 06:23 AM

I think they should stop trying to smother everything in fog and other visual spammage.

Mech colors that basically blend into the terrain (even without any camo) don't help.


See GMan's post over on NGNG for more details: http://www.nogutsnog...g22652#msg22652

#5 Ultimax

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 06:32 AM

I find a lot of the artificial visibility impairments to be obnoxious.

Some atmospheric/environmental conditions some of the time can add flavor and immersion, especially if you have to swap to a different EFFECTIVE vision mode for those times - but that's not what we have here.

What we have here is PGI going way overboard, adding visibility issues to every map, some of which are present all of the time.


This isn't aesthetics and realism here, this is PGI specifically over-using the environment to nerf ranged play, they are over-using the environment to try and balance survivability by forcing you to shoot at the center of red boxes instead of actual targets.


I don't want to play this game at mostly low settings, I didn't spend two thousand dollars on a PC for games I play to look like crap - but PGI fails to optimize the game, and then also adds frustrating visibility impairments on top of that.

So it's either lower the settings to enjoy gameplay, or play on high settings and suffer atrocious frame rate drops, even worse visibility and generally poorer performance.

I will choose the former over the latter every time, and if I'm not given a choice I'll play a different game and spend my entertainment budget on a different game company's product.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 27 October 2015 - 06:48 AM.


#6 SgtMagor

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 06:36 AM

I think everyone runs around with advanced zoom anyway, heh!

#7 Amsro

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 06:37 AM

I like that a mech as big as an atlas can be "sneaky".


Why not just have endless flat open terrain locked on mid-day with giant green arrows pointing at your enemy mech.?

But then again I play bright blue mechs anyhow. Haha!

#8 EasyPickings

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 06:43 AM

I usually play with my settings on very high - I've got a NVidia GTX 780 (not the best but still solid).

I'm finding that framerates on the new maps have dropped considerably when compared with the old maps. On the old, my framerates would vary from ~80 - 140 F/s, but on the new maps they're more like ~25 - 80 F/s.

All of the new eye candy is great, but when I've got to lower my settings to keep my gameplay on par, it's a little irritating.

#9 RockmachinE

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 06:47 AM

I play on the lowest settings to keep my FPS up. The one problem I have is environmental meshes disappearing beyond a certain distance giving me the illusion I have a clear line of sight to the enemy.

So I will see a mech hiding behind buildings 1000m away, he will "peek around the corner" except that he won't there's still an object in front of him I just can't see it.

#10 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 06:53 AM

With my current computer I run low graphics because that is the only way I can run a playable frame rate :wacko: . So I guess everything is fine then :D .

I would like to see thermal and night vision be a bit more useful. Mostly just let them see a bit farther.

As for regular vision, I agree that visibility should be the same low vs high graphics. I don't mind the fog, day/night cycles, etc..., but visibility should be about the same for all graphic settings.

#11 Tarogato

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 06:56 AM

I'm a fan of low visibility environments. I think that in making mechs more difficult to see, more gameplay opportunities arise. Flanks are easier to pull off, roaming becomes more viable, early scouting becomes more important... and most importantly - more map locations and offbeat strategies become viable because the enemy can't necessarily see you coming unless they actually properly scout it out.

For instance, on Alpine you can't do anything with your team without being spotted, which ruins a lot of options. You can't run to the south and go for a flank, you'll get spotted. You can't run to the north and go for a base cap, you'll get spotted. You can't do anything except go up to the central hill because you'll get spotted. Pretty similar on Tourmaline. From two of the spawns, you can see the entire map from one extreme end to the other and your visibility is complete unimpaired. You can't go anywhere without being spotted and you can't pull off any surprising flanks, surprise attacks, or particularly unusual strategies. In fact, one of the better strategies is to sit up on one of those spawns and camp it, from which you can see any and all enemy movements.

Viridian Bog when it was first launched had wonderful fog. You could practically go straight down the center of the map without getting spotted, and you could certainly flank wide through the north or go all the way down through the lilypads and come out the other side. You could actually leapfrog across the plateaus on top and use your jumpjets to your advantage to shoot down on enemies without skylining yourself. It really had this sense of wonder and exploration and kept you on the edge of your seat because you couldn't keep track of where the enemy was because you couldn't see them approaching from four grid squares away. But ever since they diminished the amount of fog, you can't do any of those things without getting spotted and giving up the element of surprise. This is why I like new Forest Colony so much - the forested areas really obscure vision and the rock formations along the old shore really break up visibility and allow for water strategies. There's enough fog in the forest to obscure entire company movements and it makes brawling a lot more exciting because you never know when something is going to hit you from a flank because you can't see it coming. It's a lot more fun that way.

I adore the new visibility on Caustic - it really does make mechs super hard to see, which in theory should open up a lot more possibilities. But any hope of strategical variety is stifled by the overdone rocks around the center crater that make it nothing but a Nascar fest with shin-bruising obstacles. But what I really like most about Caustic right now is that the vision modes are truly unique. Heat vision is great on it, because beyond a certain range, all mechs appear as obnoxious black dots that are super easy to spot, but the terrain is harder to navigate. Night amplification makes the terrain easier to see and better lights up mechs at close range. Normal vision is kinda in between. None of the viewmodes on this map are really better than any other, and I wish it was like this on all other maps. For instance, on Forest Colony, perma-thermal is pretty much OP unless you're fighting at range. Same goes for River City, Viridian Bog, Mining Collective, HPG, Portico, Taiga, and probably more.

People who constantly whine about visibility and want PerfectVision and Sunshiny Days on every single map must realise that it tends to drastically simplify gameplay. Look at World of Tanks, for instance. Perfect vision on every map because that's what people wanted, so the solution was to make tanks literally invisible if they weren't within spotting distance so they wouldn't shoot each other from spawn (sound familiar?). Literally invisible. The same effect could have been achieved through careful map design and reasonable optical obstructions where needed, but no... they wanted unblemished visibility so now they're stuck with tanks that pop into and out of existence based on whether you're "supposed" to be able to see them, which I find incredibly lame.

Edited by Tarogato, 27 October 2015 - 07:03 AM.


#12 Wronka

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 07:24 AM

I find myself playing in thermal view way too often. I legit just simply cannot see in some of the maps and thermal is the only way to go. It is kind of sad, I do not want to play the game in grayscale.

I will have to look into this low graphics deal though as it seems that can help a lot. I rather play with **** graphics than in thermal view!

#13 process

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 07:43 AM

It is kind of a bummer that, for performance and gameplay, it feels like a necessity to keep all environmental graphic settings on low. I'd be more compelled to crank my graphics up if I knew I wasn't handicapping myself.

The overdependence on heat and thermal vision also isn't great. Playing an entire map on black and white, or green mode, is visually monotonous. I wish alternate vision modes had more specific, tactical functions, but I don't know how to implement that. Terra Therma and HPG Uplink are two maps that come to mind where there there's a healthy balance of normal and night vision.

The day/night cycle on the newer maps don't really solve these problems, since on 3 of the periods you're still in darkness for some duration of the match.

Edited by process, 27 October 2015 - 08:26 AM.


#14 Nesutizale

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 07:55 AM

Wasn't there a IR mode that had the heat of a mech in a colorcode? Like the ground would be in blues while a "cold" running mech was very light blue and when he fires weapons the weapons themself would start to glow red and as the mech builds up heat would also get more red over time.

this could also be an interesting mechanic to check your enemys heat level.

#15 Mister Blastman

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 08:22 AM

I would rather all the 'mechs default to bright blue and red colors so that are easy to see than deal with what we have right now.

#16 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 08:40 AM

We could have the mechs be a bright neon blue or neon red. We should also equip autoaim (like a cross hair snap-to). While we are at it, I think we should change all the terrain to shades of great, eliminate any cover, and heck, remove any inclines and declines while we are at it.

I'm sure there are more "improvements" I'm missing. :)

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 27 October 2015 - 08:53 AM.


#17 Atlasian

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 08:53 AM

I like the new Forest Colony. It gives opportunity to take your fight to various locations on the map so matches don't seem repetitive. And it does feel like a forest. I would switch to heat vision at times when targets are closer. Otherwise it will be normal or night vision.

One question: What are those things on the ground that will roll when you collide into them? Mushrooms??

#18 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 08:54 AM

View PostMeiSooHaityu, on 27 October 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

We could have the mechs be a bright neon blue or neon red. We should also equip autoaim (like a cross hair snap-to). While we are at it, I think we should change all the terrain to shades of great, eliminate any cover, and heck, remove any inclines and declines while we are at it.

I'm sure there are more "improvements" I'm missing.

Well, finding someone using a strawmen argument was inevitable.

PGI's use of fog on recent maps make me really miss predator vision.

#19 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 08:58 AM

View PostAtlasian, on 27 October 2015 - 08:53 AM, said:

One question: What are those things on the ground that will roll when you collide into them? Mushrooms??


It's these little guys...
Posted Image

Don't forget to feed them.

View PostQuicksilver Kalasa, on 27 October 2015 - 08:54 AM, said:

Well, finding someone using a strawmen argument was inevitable.

PGI's use of fog on recent maps make me really miss predator vision.


:rolleyes:

I'm just kidding for pete sake.

Anyway, the Predator vision was a bit too nice. Still, I feel like I am playing the original silent hill with the current heat vision.

#20 Tyler Valentine

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 09:15 AM

Yeah, I'm getting a little sick of squinting at the screen all the time. I haven't broken down and lowered my graphics settings yet but, with all the posts lately, I'm considering it. It's fun to have fog, time of day and other visual effects but It can get out of hand. I wince every time I see Forest Colony loading now. I really like the art of the map but it is just so hard to see what you're shooting at...





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