5 replies to this topic

[NeoAres]

With yet another needlessly complex series of changes on our doorstep, I feel it is our duty to come up with some simpler alternatives. While some of the changes being tested in the PTS can certainly field the desired results, the long-term tweaking required to balance all the new variables, not to mention the increasing learning curve for new players (and veterans alike) dealing with more complicated stuff, worries me greatly. There are simple solutions, and I aim to propose one. This is going to be part one of a two-part solution (this one dealing with weapons balance, the other dealing with mech balance) that should, without anything more complex than some tweaking of existing values, offer a more fair and Battletech-esque environment.

Through these weapon tweaks, I aim to:
1. Make laserboats less of an OP choice.
2. Eliminate the necessity of the proposed laser "target-lock" system
3. Make clan lasers' increased duration more of a balancing feature without making duration lengths ridiculous
4. Bring jumpjets back to their proper values without creating "poptartwarrior online"
5. Similarly discourage "hillhumpwarrior online"
6. Bring AC and LBX back on par with UAC

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The main component of this solution is a departure from the previous mechwarrior concepts of "bigger weapons must have slower recycle (MWO calls it cooldown)," but without oversimplifying to the CBT-esque "all weapons have the same recycle." Combining this with a blanket reduction to recycle times will help reduce the efficiency of poptarts/hillhumpers by creating weapons that are far more devastating on open ground than when fired sporadically.

Change #1: Reduction of "max recycle" from 4 seconds to 3 seconds and homogenization of like weapon systems.
Now, the SSRM6 technically has the longest recycle at 6 seconds, but before its appearance, the max was 4 seconds, a recycle reserved for the heaviest weapon systems. By reducing that value to 3 seconds, we enable a more furious fighting environment for those with the heat capacity to support it. I will eventually get to which weapons exactly have a 3-second recycle later. Furthermore, since the stats on weapons in CBT are based on a "standard recycle" system, weapon recycles will be internally standardized by type. More on that to follow.

Change #2: Further reduction and homogenization of recycle for lasers and heavy autocannons (and adjustment of AC ammo values to match).
Lasers and autocannons will become powerful brawling/open field weapons thanks to drastically reduced recycle times, but appropriate reductions in potency in other areas will help to compensate for this advantage. This also has two bonus effects: The first is increasing the handicap of clan lasers' increased durations without further increasing the durations because the duration will be a more significant portion of the overall recycle time, severely reducing DPS of clan lasers in relation to their IS counterparts. The second is decreasing the advantage of "quick-cycled" UACs, especially the heavy bores (while increasing the quick-cycle advantage of the underpowered UAC2)

Change #3: Near-blanket reductions to "long range" values for lasers and ACs, balanced by near-blanket increases to "max range" multipliers.
This serves as the "counterbalance" for the decreased recycle times without resorting to straight-up damage reductions (although I also plan to reduce laser damage back to CBT values). By reducing the range at which lasers and ACs deal full damage and instead lengthening the "partial damage" range, we make them more effective brawling weapons but less effective sniping weapons.

By The Numbers
Recycle Times
PPC/ERPPC: 3s
Gauss: 3s (not including charge-up time)
LRM: 3s
SRM: 3s
Small/Medium Lasers (beam & pulse): 1s (not including duration)
Large Lasers (beam & pulse): 1.5s (not including duration)
AC, UAC, LBX: 1.5s
CLBX2: 0.75s

AC Long(Max) Ranges
Clan AC includes both AC and UAC values. AC2 receives little change besides a general range buff (due to the fact that it alone actually recycles slower now than before), and AC5 receives pretty much no change at all since its recycle only gets a tiny reduction. The other ACs get significant long range recuctions, but AC10 max range becomes 3XLR, while AC20 becomes 4XLR, meaning that max ranges stay mostly the same. LBX maintains 2XLR throughout. Damage is still 2, 5, 10, and 20 respectively.
AC2: 800(1600) -- Clan AC2: 1000(2000) -- LBX2: 900(1800)
AC5: 600(1200) -- Clan AC5: 700(1400) -- LBX5: 700(1400)
AC10: 300 (900) -- Clan AC10: 350(1050) -- LBX10: 450(900)
AC20: 150(600) -- Clan AC20: 175(700) -- LBX20: 300(600)

Laser Long(Max) Ranges
Long ranges of lasers go down universally, but get a max range of 3XLR. Damage values revert to CBT values.
Small Laser: 100(300) -- Clan ER Small: 125(375)
Small Pulse: 80(240) -- Clan Small Pulse: 100(300)
Medium Laser: 200(600) -- Clan ER Medium: 250(750)
Medium Pulse: 150(450) -- Clan Medium Pulse: 200(600)
Large Laser: 300(900)
ER Large Laser: 350(1050) -- Clan ER Large: 400(1200)
Large Pulse: 250(750) -- Clan Large Pulse: 300(900)


As you can see, the max ranges of lasers and autocannons do not receive much of a change, but (besides the AC2) the range at which they do full damage goes down significantly, basically the effect of the PGI-proposed system without the complexity of the target-lock. Combined with the reduced recycle times, this turns lasers into effective rapid-fire, open field weapons while reducing their ability to function as a poptart weapon. By increasing the number of times a battery of lasers must hit an opponent in order to core it (especially at range, where that pinpoint accuracy brings its greatest advantage over other weapon systems). They become the energy version of ACs (just like PPCs are the energy version of gauss), with the tradeoffs of pinpoint accuracy vs kick, and heat buildup vs ammo dependency.

How This Fulfills The Goals Above
1.Make laserboats less of an OP choice: By repurposing the laser as a low-recycle, low damage-over-range weapon, we partially mitigate the advantages of their unique ability to pinpoint at range while acknowleding that as an inherent feature of the weapons. While lasers will still be able to "swipe" just about anything, even at long ranges, the damage reduction as range increases will force laserboats to spend more time exposed and/or close in to where non-laser weapons will be able to pinpoint easily.as well.

2. Eliminate the necessity of the proposed laser "target-lock" system: This kinda goes hand-in-hand with #1. By creating a way to keep lasers effective (albeit in a different role) while mitigating the effectiveness of the feature that has made them unbalanced (pinpoint targeting at range, perfect convergence at range), we eliminate the need for a more complex addition to the game.

3. Make clan lasers' increased duration more of a balancing feature without making duration lengths ridiculous: Right now the Clan ER Large Laser has a duration of 1.5s and a cooldown of 3.25s, for a total TBS of 4.75s of which the duration is only 32%. With the proposed cooldown of 1.5s, that percentage jumps to 50%. The IS Large Laser has a duration of 1.25s, for a total TBS of 4.5s, 5% less than the Clan. With proposed 1.5s cooldown, the difference in TBS between the IS and Clan LLs jumps to 8% (2.75s vs 3s). Without touching duration lengths at all, we have increased the effect of the duration difference on gameplay, helping balance Clan and IS laser systems a little bit more.

4. Bring jumpjets back to their proper values without creating "poptartwarrior online": It's something we all want--to get rid of hoverjets and get nimble, powerful jumpjets back in the game. How does this help? Well, by transforming lasers and heavy ACs into more powerful open field weapons, we enable users of those weapon systems to more easily overwhelm snipers. Open field TTK will go down drastically, doing more to discourage sporadic sniping behavior than any jumpjet nerf ever could.

5. Similarly discourage "hillhumpwarrior online": By reducing recycle to the point that some weapons will recycle faster than the hillhumpers can complete their maneuvers, staying exposed for multiple shots (until, say, heat becomes a factor) will become the most efficient fighting method and therefore the new normal.

6. Bring AC and LBX back on par with UAC: Right now, heavy UACs have a huge advantage over other heavy ACs on open ground. This is because of long recycle times being completely negated by "quick-cycling." By homogenizing the AC recycles, we standardize the advantages of UAC quick-cycling between calibers. By setting that recycle at something reasonably low (1.5s), we ensure that quick-cycling ability will not be a huge advantage to UACs at any caliber. Furthermore, the damage-over-range reductions to heavy ACs will help unshelve heavy LBX.


Totally unrelated to the other stuff, but as long as you've bothered to read this far...
Bonus Proposed Change
Change #4: Make SRMs stream instead of spread and increase velocity
Very simple change that should increase coring ability and overall effectiveness of SRM systems against large/slow opponents and distinguish them from LBX. By having SRMs launch one at a time and converge on the targeted location, it will become a valid alternative/complement to pulse lasers on small mechs looking to be "goliath-killers", or as auxiliary weapons on larger brawlers. With LBX no longer in danger of being usurped by SRMs with the new mechanic, SRM velocity can increase to something more reasonable for an unguided weapon, like 500 or 600 (current is 300, AC20 is 650 and LBX20 is 1100 for comparison)

Edited by NeoAres, 29 October 2015 - 08:34 AM.

[Mcgral18]

I cannot support that level of normalizing cool downs, completely making Small lasers and AC2s worthless. The closer gab for IS to clam optimal ranges isn't bad, but pretty severe overall nerf in some cases.


SRM change is theoretically VERY simple, adding the cLRM (or cAC burst) line of code, and putting 'spread' down to a much smaller value.

150 optimal AC20 range seems pretty bad, and the max doesn't make up for it. Cooldown is a big buff, however.


All in all...you've cemented the Gauss as the best weapon in the game.

[NeoAres]

Mcgral18, on 29 October 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

All in all...you've cemented the Gauss as the best weapon in the game.

With the blanket reduction to recycle times in place, the charge-up mechanic becomes a big hit to Gauss TBS compared to the rival PPC, and also encourages it to spend ammo more liberally, causing shortages. If necessary, it can be further balanced any number of ways, from a damage reduction to a velocity reduction to an ammo/ton reduction, to a charge-up time increase. I'm not worried.

Edited by NeoAres, 29 October 2015 - 08:46 AM.

[Mcgral18]

NeoAres, on 29 October 2015 - 08:43 AM, said:

With the blanket reduction to recycle times in place, the charge-up mechanic becomes a big hit to Gauss TBS compared to the rival PPC, and also encourages it to spend ammo more liberally, causing shortages. If necessary, it can be further balanced any number of ways, from a damage reduction to a velocity reduction to an ammo/ton reduction, to a charge-up time increase. I'm not worried.

At 1800m max range, the DPS of shorter range weaponry means little when they're dead by 800m.
Gauss has 2Km/s, and PPCs are far too slow and HOT to compete effectively at range or up close.



You've also brought TTK to absurdly low levels.


I've made a thread of my own, if you wanted to take a look. Just look at the pretty pictures, if you wish:

http://mwomercs.com/...ags-ahoy-pgiplz

[BARBAR0SSA]

Instagib changes, unless you tweak damage down....it's just allowing people to get blasted to death fast.

Recycle times should go up drastically and allow more hit and run, maneuvering and team work.

I'm all for the laser range changes and target lock as it rewards people for knowing their optimal range vs enemies optimal range.

I'd rather they just make lights and mediums accelerate and reverse much much much faster so they can dodge. Fix PPC and SRM hit detection. and do the min/max range changes for all weapons....you wanna 6LL stalker, great my 12SL nova if it gets up close has your number, otherwise it has the advantage...cat and mouse baby!

Edited by shad0w4life, 29 October 2015 - 09:21 AM.

[LordMelvin]

One idea I've been entertaining is altering weapons damage to take into account the supposed "10 second turn" for TT. As it stands, all lasers and ballistics do TT damage in about 1/2-1/4 of the time they normally would, which is why we needed 2x armor/structure.

So a medium laser would still do 5 damage, but maybe 1.6 at a time over a 1 second burn and 2 second cd (3 seconds between shots). Then you could drop armor values back to normal. Although weapons like the Gauss and PPC would be harder to tweak that way since they do all of their damage at once and are supposed to be big, scary weapons, and firing one shot per 10 seconds would render them completely useless.

Unfortunately it's a bit late to be scrapping core game mechanics or I'd suggest binning TT values entirely and balancing based on arbitrary values that "feel" better.