246 replies to this topic

[Thorqemada]

PholkLorr, on 29 October 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

Guess what? If YOUR BUILD and playstyle became the new meta, I would take that build and steamroll you with it anyway.

If so why do you howl like a Wolf at the Moon about a changing Meta if nothing will stop you from winning?

And if we have atm the most easy Meta now why would a Skillgod like you not want it harder for inferior Players to reach your level of success to stay farther above this crowd of unskilled Plebs?

Questions, questions, questions - one as mysterious as the next...

Edited by Thorqemada, 29 October 2015 - 11:15 PM.

[Spleenslitta]

Winterburn, on 29 October 2015 - 11:10 PM, said:

In OPs world people run a single build on all their mechs.

Sorry, but what you say is pretty dumb. I used to play MMORPGs and I used to be the guy who uses stuff for nostalgic purposes sacrifises the holy minmaxing in the prosses. Also I used to kick ass big time.

People complain about meta not because they want their builds to be the new meta, but because they want meta beatable, so they see more variety on the battlefield.

It is beatable. At least it's beatable for fast mediums and all light mechs...except when you bring an Urbie with the stock engine that is.
The point is to hit them from their flanks or rear. Keeping yourself completly attached to your team means that every time you come out of cover the enemy is allready aiming in your general direction.
But if you're alone out on their flank they are much less likely to be looking straight at you when you break cover to shot.

Relocate far and often to keep the light mechs with 8SPL's, 5 MPL's and fast streak boats running around to find you.
Want to know more? Here you go....but be warned....it's a textwall monstrousity i made.

Non Meta Light Mech Tactics Guide.

One player liked this guide so much he actually proposed to it.
Now i'm expecting to become a grandpa while i'm still 35 years old. A human and a textwall monster.
I suspect that baby won't be cute....

[Kjudoon]

Quote

Weak, illogical players destroy their own game.

Right here. Should have stopped here because it sums up this community in it's entirity.

/thread

But... since we went on, I will too.

I have seen just as many delusional entitlement junkie Tier 1 players as I have seen delusional participation trophy Tier 5 players.

The meta will always exist. It is the most efficient way to play a game. Every game and aspect of life has this "meta" to it. The problem is when the game is so flawed and easily abused that you star destroying the game with it's own rules. The flaws become the meta, and people who don't then use the 'cheat code' of the flawed meta are abused by those who do. Ethically it's wrong, but I have been discovering the more I play, the gaming community is mostly unethical and it's near universality 'win at any cost and it's only wrong if I lose' mentality.

This game *IS* being destroyed by weak, illogical players, as well as PGI listening to them for advice. Everyone arguing out of their own 'unenlightened self interest' or protect their favorite flaw that they profit from, and with so much conflict of interest and specia interests, PGI needs to get to the point where they just say enough already and stop listening to any of us, make the game they want, and if we don't like it, we walk away or pile on.

But your tier is irrelevant.

Edited by Kjudoon, 30 October 2015 - 12:01 AM.

[Coolant]

The issue is about balance, every weapon being useful, after all there aren't many weapons to choose from unlike mw4:mercs + mekpaks where there were over 100.

And wow the OP is conceited

[Brollocks]

Weak, illogical people cause the current meta to become a problem in the first place. If there wasn't an over abundance of 'tryhards', in any game, switching to the current most powerful 'mechs and classes in any of these games, it would be far less of an issue, and those who don't wish to be railroaded into certain 'mechs/builds/classes, are the one's who suffer.

Then those same weak and illogical people whine all over the games forums when their beloved easier to win 'mech/class are brought down a few pegs from either direct nerfs or changes to the game. All caused because so many of them jumped on the bandwagon to be the best. The best!!


Only issue I have with it all is seeing the same damn 'mechs all the time. Not a learn to play issue, I actually enjoy making meta mech pilots miserable by focusing them. It's just the same every game. You all enjoy your TBR meta builds and cheetah's etc, easily pulling as much or more damage as a well played assault, but those in the know aren't even going to pay attention to how well you do or consider you good players.

[stoogah]

Why some people deliberately choose to play a bad build or playstyle and then whine that it is bad is beyond me.


Why would I want to play 1button-win mechs? There are many more fps shooters where you just push/hold lmb to win. Why would I want to play lmb warrior online? It's boring. Effective but boring. Part of the fun in this game is to menage you wepons/groups in differen situations. You will bring meta laser vomit mech and kill me in 1-2 alphas? Great but I'd rather have some mixed loadout just for the sake of more diversified gameplay. Not to mention laservomit mechs looks incredibly silly.... walking christmas trees. I prefer to play my way - the right way.

Yes the right way... because MW game shouldn't be just boating one type of weapon and alpha it all the time. If you are having fun playing that way... you should look for a different game. There are better press-lmb-to-win games.

Short answer.... because it's boring, easy and looks stupid (for a mechwarrior game).

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Kjudoon, on 29 October 2015 - 11:24 PM, said:

This game *IS* being destroyed by weak, illogical players, as well as PGI listening to them for advice. Everyone arguing out of their own 'unenlightened self interest' or protect their favorite flaw that they profit from, and with so much conflict of interest and specia interests, PGI needs to get to the point where they just say enough already and stop listening to any of us, make the game they want, and if we don't like it, we walk away or pile on.

But your tier is irrelevant.

I cannot forget the glory whine that arose when PGI tried to slightly nerf TBRs and SCRs... The whinestorm was so great it actually buried PGIs attempt to introduce incremental changes to slowly improve balance.

The Game of Mechs: ALL MEN MUST WHINE.

------------

OP: I starting to think I should make a copypasta for threads like this. It would go like that:

1. There will always be meta.
2. There will always be "worse equipment/loadouts"
2. There will always be people using the meta. They have a right to play that way and have fun, because they're developer's customers. They often think they are somehow more important than other players, but they're not. Devs' job is to provide them with fun.
3. There will always be people refraining from using the meta, for various reasons. They have a right to play that way because they are developer's customers. They often think they are somehow more important than other players, but they're not. Devs' job is to provide them with fun.
4. It's the developers' responsibility to make the distance between the meta and "worse equipment/loadouts" as small as possible, limiting the obvious and unavoidable conflict between meta and non-meta players as much as it is possible.
/thread

[zagibu]

I'm going to admit it, I'm not a competitive player. I wouldn't mind if the game was PvE (in fact, I would probably enjoy it more). The reason why I am "whining about the meta" is, because for me, it's simply boring. I get no thrill out of trying to be the best and fastest in aiming and clicking. So, no, I will not "adapt and get better", because I don't ENJOY doing what it takes to get better. When I watch competitive match streams, my eyes drop after 2 minutes because it's so dull and boring.

So yeah, I will continue to be weak and illogical and destroy this game. Because I have a completely different idea than OP what this game should be like. I don't want another Counterstrike, I want epic drawn-out brawls, ideally involving NPC cannon fodder. I am not content with laseralpha online.

[Vellron2005]

"Munches popcorn"..

Oh look, another "Holier than thou" Vs. "I'm so right, its not even funny how right I am" thread...



"closes tab"

[Random Carnage]

It would be nice if my Dire could not get its face melted off by every second light and most mediums.

[White Bear 84]

Meta does not = skill.

So less than meta builds are fun, they raise the challenge bar and add variety to the game.. ..in the right hands they can run just as well as the meta.

Player need to realise we will always have meta and it will always change. It could be more balanced, but it is much better balanced now than it has been in the past..

I rather close grindy matches, steamrolls are boring easy mode wins. Make me torso twist and duck n dive to avoid that last mech, so I can sit back at the end and either win/lose say.. ..that was awesome. That is MWO.

#vote1bearforpotus

Edited by White Bear 84, 30 October 2015 - 01:05 AM.

[Sarlic]

Quote

Besides, if you're having so much fun using crappy builds, why are you crying and whining on the forums about how "meta tryhards" are steamrolling you? Or are you afraid that if you actually played the "meta" AND still played crappily, you wouldn't have an excuse to protect your already bruised ego? Your ego would be utterly destroyed beyond recognition.

Ever thought how easy mode some mechs are? For example the obvious ones...

Ever thought that some people are looking for challenges?

Ever thought that some people like to know their limits and try to push it beyond?

Ever thought that any good game has a own mechanic to counter 'meta'? Yet PGI doenst.

Ever thought i still pound you in the ground with terribad mechs and builds? Perhaps imagine me in these sub par 'optimal' builds. Who knows what will happen. I don't want it, nor i choose for it.

Ever thought of just looking further then your know and our current 'meta' combination excists because of obvious certain weapon values? Alot of weapon values are bad, terrible and suck.


And lastly.. Being Tier 1 doesnt mean anything.

Just saying. You shouldnt bragg about these things. It's for a better cause its flamebait.

I run mixed builds all the time. Sometimes i fail, sometime i succeed.

Edited by Sarlic, 30 October 2015 - 02:09 AM.

[Random Carnage]

Mmm...

Yes, a good pilot will often beat a poor pilot regardless of build. But when 2 good pilots face off, you don't want to be in the lesser build.

I'd love to run a 2LPL, 2UAC10, 2 LRM10 build in my Dire for the versatility it provides, but to actually do so would weaken my team and make my Dire relatively ineffective against other potential load-outs I could bring.

The current game doesn't encourage anything other than boating lasers for the most part, with the off AC or Gauss build exception if running a Dire.

[Tarogato]

I play meta almost exclusively, but I also whine about it. It's really boring that "if your build isn't x, y, or z, it's сrap". I wish I could play more diverse builds and remain competitive, but I simply can't. It's gaussvomit or go home. I want to buy Commandos, but I can't justify it. I want to buy Vindicators, but I can't justify it. I want to buy Shadow Cats, but I can't justify it. Gargoyles. Summoners. Cataphracts. Shadowhawks. But I feel like I'm pidgeon-holed by the meta.

So before you whine about people who whine, try seeing it from their perspective. Which is "I don't want every bloody mech to be the same as every other", which is what the meta does to this game.

[Karl Streiger]

Sarlic, on 30 October 2015 - 01:11 AM, said:

Ever thought that any good game has a own mechanic to counter 'meta'? Yet PGI doenst.

wait - afaik meta is simple the "toolset" that work on any map. Specific a "meta" mech is just a "allrounder" so on some maps you should be able to kill a all rounder with a specalist

The problem is you have a hard time to kill the meta all rounder - using a mixed build (all rounder)

[Random Carnage]

Peek - alpha - hide - cool down. Rinse. Repeat.

Welcome to MWO...Meta Warrior Online.

[adamts01]

No matter what the meta is I either adopt it or find a way to adapt to it. What sucks right now is seeing the same thing all day every day. It's stupid to think there might not be a meta one day. I just wish the runner up to laser spamming was a little more competitive. There are so many mechs and so many variables it just sucks that there are so few that you see in game. Once prime time starts the tier 1 games are, cheetah, cheetah, crow, timber, blackjack, dire, dire, timber, crow, blackjack, thunderbolt, timber..... And nothing but lasers...... I don't want LRMpockalyps but some missiles would he nice. And maybe some autocannons on something besides a dire or dragon. If you ever see a dragon.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Right. First thing's first. I am a crappy pilot. This is verifiable fact. I am crap with my lore-friendly builds and I would be crap with the flavor of the month metabuild. In short, I am crap.

That said, lots of people are, like me, crap. Lots of People are, like me, the kind who don't really enjoy playing a metamech. Lots of people who are crap, like me, put money into this game. I suspect more people are like me than are l33t meta tryhards who can actually call themselves good at the game, and therein lies the problem with your argumen. As much as you might wish for us to play the game the way you do that is unlikely to happen, and if the game is balanced according to only the top players' preferences then many of these crap players with open wallets will eventually find something else to play (leaving only those crap players who, like me, are too old, stubborn and downright stupid to give up). This means PGI won't make enough money to keep the wheels turning. This means MWO dies. This means you don't get to play the game your way anymore and we don't get to play it our way. This should make us all sad.

And nobody lived happily ever after.

The end.

Edited by Steinar Bergstol, 30 October 2015 - 01:28 AM.

[adamts01]

Steinar Bergstol, on 30 October 2015 - 01:24 AM, said:

Right. First thing's first. I am a crappy pilot. This is verifiable fact. I am crap with my lore-friendly builds and I would be crap with the flavor of the month metabuild. In short, I am crap.

That said, lots of people are, like me, crap. Lots of People are, like me, the kind who don't really enjoy playing a metamech. Lots of people who are crap, like me, put money into this game. I suspect more people are like me than are l33t meta tryhards who can actually Call themselves good at the game, and therein lies the problem with your argument, because as much as you might wish for us to play the game the way you do that is unlikely to happen, and if the game is balanced according to your preferences then many of these crap players with open wallets will eventually find something else to play (leaving only those crap players who, like me, are too old, stubborn and downright stupid to give up). This means PGI won't make enough money to keep the wheels turning. This means MWO dies. This means you don't get to play the game your way anymore and we don't get to play it our way. This should make us all sad.

And nobody lived happily ever after.

The end.

That's all good. And ideally matchmaker would put everyone where they need to be to have fun. The problem is there aren't enough players. And this "stop crying about balance" attitude holds the game back and is detrimental to the player base. People should stop being an a$$, help this game get better and lose the "just get good" attitude or the game will die.

Edited by adamts01, 30 October 2015 - 01:32 AM.

[Pjwned]

The problem with complaints about meta tends to be that people who defend the meta don't care about how unbalanced and/or overly dominant it can be when other builds that should also be effective are shut down with ease by meta builds that have many strengths and almost no weakness.

Pop-tart jump sniping meta was guilty of this back in the day, same old arguments used then as we're seeing here, which is basically "git gud you're just bad embrace the meta who cares what effect the meta has on the game or how balanced it is if I'm the one winning." It's not a good argument, it just reeks of people rabidly defending cheesy builds simply because it gets them good results.

That said, there's really not much of an overly dominant meta to complain about now, rather it's a number of weapon options that currently suck (and have sucked for some time) that make options too limited and it makes things really stale. Other than perhaps a select few weapon nerfs, (all of which would be reasonably minor) all that's needed to make the meta more healthy now is to make bad weapons (such as machine guns, flamers, SSRMs, AC2, etc) not be so bad, and even considering that the meta overall is pretty good but it still has room for improvement for sure.