29 replies to this topic

[TyphonCh]

I'm seeing a lot of this...

Spoiler

So I'm just going to go ahead and quote myself from Khobai's thread, because I feel it needs it's own consideration:

Team Chevy86, on 03 November 2015 - 02:47 PM, said:

How it should work, like many other games that have voting for gamemode and maps, is each vote towards a map or game mode is considered in the final selection.

Imagine throwing a 24 sided die

Map 1: 8 people vote

Map 2: 6 people vote

Map 3: 2 people vote

Map 4: 8 people vote

33% chance to select Maps 1 and 4, %25 chance to select map 2, and %12 chance to select Map 3, for example.

Same goes for the mode selection. This makes it easy for anyone to toss a vote at an undesirable map and have it turn up as a winner.

Edited by Team Chevy86, 03 November 2015 - 03:07 PM.

[Duke Nedo]

Definately should be like that, agreed! I think it was even suggested in that form some time back when Russ presented the alternative...

[1Grimbane]

why not allow us to select from the lobby what map (like select game mode) we want to play on and then MM assimilates players that have selected that map into a match.........

[Death Proof]

I think this is reasonable...and probably a better way of handling it than a straight-up vote.

But I'm of the opinion that it should have been completely random selection instead of voting of any kind....so as to speed up the process even more.

[orcrist86]

No. The whole point was to remove mm constraints while providing players agency. Subbing a rng into the process removes agency. In that example having the rng choose the map with 12% invalidates the vote of 88%. Whereas under the current system with that example only 66% lose out, but in all likelihood a much smaller number will lose out but at least they knowthey lost to player preference and not rnjesus.

[maxdest]

4 maps , one of each game mode

i.e. no seperate game mode choice (note need new game mode)


Example:

• Skirmish Bog
  
• Conquest Terra Therma (+20% Cbill)
  
• Assault River City
  
• King of the hill Frozen City

Player has to weigh up to play favourite map or game mode.

Spice it up by adding a cbill percent bonus (in big letters) for the real outliers (I'm looking at you conquest on Terra Therma) and whilst doing that examine why no one wants to play that map/mode and make changes.

Edited by maxdest, 03 November 2015 - 03:37 PM.

[terrycloth]

The problem is that half the players only want to play on one or two maps, and the other half like variety.

There's not vote option 'variety'. There's three options to split the vote between, and one for 'the same map over and over'.

So, the players that want the same map over and over win every single time (theoretically, they have something like a 1 in 4000 chance of tying) and the players who want variety are completely screwed every single time. It's stupidly unfair.

That's assuming it's half and half, but for the 'one map over and over' people to win they only need to be about 30% of the population.

[Big Tin Man]

Heh. The problem of many choices offered to a group, is that the group will always make the same choice.

The solution is to eliminate the number of choices to increase variety.

Vote on 2 maps. Vote on 2 game modes (hopefully more will come soon to increase variety of games played). The better solution is to combine maps and game mode, and make it one combined choice as maxdest said, but even 4 is too many choices.

Too many choices ELIMINATES variety, as people will vote for the most favorable map.

[oldradagast]

IMHO:

- No map voting. We didn't have it before, and I see no reason for it now since it just forces the easy maps to be played over and over again.

- No matter how many game modes exist, you have a maximum of one turned OFF in your selection. This helps unit the queues a bit, but also allows a person to never play that one mode he hates ever again.

[Troutmonkey]

maxdest, on 03 November 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

4 maps , one of each game mode

i.e. no seperate game mode choice (note need new game mode)


Example:

• Skirmish Bog
  
• Conquest Terra Therma (+20% Cbill)
  
• Assault River City
  
• King of the hill Frozen City

Player has to weigh up to play favourite map or game mode.

Spice it up by adding a cbill percent bonus (in big letters) for the real outliers (I'm looking at you conquest on Terra Therma) and whilst doing that examine why no one wants to play that map/mode and make changes.

That's actually a solid idea. Like the old Halo Reach map voting

[pyrocomp]

Might work, but this is like we had before - something random. If there is a choice, then it should better be it.
I think that the maps abuse can be solved a little differently (and less honestly) at higher step. What if the 4-map stack presented for voting is filled with maps with different probabilities (not equal) based on how often they were selected previously? E.g. players constanly select Frosen city, then next day/hour/15mins this map will have much lower probability to show up in the selection deck.
The game modes are harder to solve this way since the modes pool is criminally low, but ... how many conquests were played since the patch?

Edited by pyrocomp, 03 November 2015 - 04:43 PM.

[AbyssalTyrant]

Just add a "?" choice for a random map and game mode . Best choice for people who want to play something different

[TyphonCh]

Troutmonkey, on 03 November 2015 - 04:31 PM, said:

That's actually a solid idea. Like the old Halo Reach map voting

That's where I got this idea from. It's the best way to pick maps in my opinion.
A %100 democratic vote won't work well. It will boil down to the same 3 maps and skirmish almost every single game. At least this way you can sway the final decision to something else. Think of it as a combination of this new voting system, and the random map factor we had before

I really like that idea as well Maxdest

Edited by Team Chevy86, 03 November 2015 - 05:02 PM.

[Xetelian]

I don't even get a chance to vote, by the time I load into the lobby its over.

[Mystere]

Just randomize everything, including matchmaking. The only thing that can beat that in terms of wait times is to match players as they come. But that one can be gamed given the low population.

[TyphonCh]

Xetelian, on 03 November 2015 - 05:07 PM, said:

I don't even get a chance to vote, by the time I load into the lobby its over.

That sounds like a personal problem. Hah.

Giving this a bump because the sheer amount of crying on the forums this evening is brutal. Any collaborative effort to create a constructive conversation is being buried too quickly.

[Tuis Ryche]

1Grimbane, on 03 November 2015 - 03:09 PM, said:

why not allow us to select from the lobby what map (like select game mode) we want to play on and then MM assimilates players that have selected that map into a match.........

Yes, this. Let me rank the maps I want (or don't want) to play and then that gets factored into the map selection as determined by reading the selections of others in the drop.

[monk]

I think the new system is great but that it should be a weight system with a random number to determine the map/mode so that there's a chance of every map/mode option occurring. There will simply be maps and modes that very rarely if ever get played with this system.

Edited by monk, 03 November 2015 - 11:26 PM.

[Morikuro]

Team Chevy86, on 03 November 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

That's where I got this idea from. It's the best way to pick maps in my opinion.
A %100 democratic vote won't work well. It will boil down to the same 3 maps and skirmish almost every single game. At least this way you can sway the final decision to something else. Think of it as a combination of this new voting system, and the random map factor we had before

I really like that idea as well Maxdest

What do you think about a limited amount of blacklist options? Though the ranking option would be nice as well.

[Pjwned]

I still think voting is dumb, but I agree that would make things less dumb.