344 replies to this topic

[MWHawke]

Kaijin, on 13 November 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

The CN9-AH variant comes with an AC/20. We used to have that variant until PGI removed it so they could sell us Yen Lo Wang. Your example fails.

When you say variant, what does that mean? It means customized right? Your English fails.

[Lyteros]

If there is prober balancing customization is not a problem anymore.

IF there is FOTM LRM + ballstics because heat makes all high energy weapons utterly gimped, custom fits with working weapons will always outperform trials / builds with the gimp weapons.

[Clay Pigeon]

[Joseph Mallan]

Wolv e, on 09 July 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

The Omi mech (clan mechs and later the IS introduced their versions) Is the only mech capable of taking and swapping various weapson and heatsinks without penalty...........we should keep it like that. My 2 cents...FLAME ON!

You don't know your BattleTech lore very well sir. Commander Avanti of Avanti's Angels Customized his Caesar with Clan Tech Weapons in the Dropship Mech bay while in transit. If a lone MechWarrior can make those kinds of Mods by himself, a team of Techs can work wonders.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 13 November 2012 - 09:09 AM.

[Lorcan Lladd]

Kaijin, on 13 November 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

The CN9-AH variant comes with an AC/20. We used to have that variant until PGI removed it so they could sell us Yen Lo Wang. Your example fails.

All it takes to mount the AC20 on any Centurion is simply removing one of the arm actuators...
I would be much happier if we were able to do this in the MechLab ourselves, as opposed to being forced to purchase a whole different 'Mech in order to employ massive weapons like that...

Edited by Lorcan Lladd, 13 November 2012 - 09:05 AM.

[Stormwolf]

MWHawke, on 13 November 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

Discussion is moot coz if you read the novels, you would realize that people can cram big guns into small hardpoints, eg. Centurion comes with an AC 10 in the right arm right? Yen Lo Wang had an AC 20 in it. Customization is a big part of BT Universe and trying to limit it would not follow the story line much.

They (re)built that thing at a factory, you can do anything in a factory. There are only a few custom mechs in BT when compared to the armies of stock designs.

Battletech knows 35 customs out of 851 stock designs in 3050, although many of these are rebuilds of the same mech or replaced a previous custom in later years (the Centurion CN9-YLW2 is the same mech as the CN9-YLW). Note that I left out omni mechs in the custom list because they can be reconfigured on the fly.

[Kaijin]

MWHawke, on 13 November 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

When you say variant, what does that mean? It means customized right? Your English fails.

No. It means variant. These are all built in a factory, not field customizations.

Hinds are as good a modern-day example as any.

http://en.wikipedia...._Mi-24_variants

Edited by Kaijin, 13 November 2012 - 10:29 AM.

[SendMyRegards]

Take away my ability to customize my mech to suit my purposes and whims and I'll go and wait for the next stompy robot game that will allow me to customize and experiment. I'm not playing this game inside of someone's battletech purist pipedream.

[TheMightyWashburn]

A post calling for a reduction in customization is asinine, NEVER going to happen, and downright disgusting. Go live in a grey box.

[Stormwolf]

SendMyRegards, on 13 November 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

Take away my ability to customize my mech to suit my purposes and whims and I'll go and wait for the next stompy robot game that will allow me to customize and experiment. I'm not playing this game inside of someone's battletech purist pipedream.

The Battletech purist dream is;
1. Customization is rare, but you can do more then what is possible in MWO (from field refits to factory rebuilds).
2. Guys who can afford it, can customize their rides (we're not all milionairs and often don't own our mechs though).
3. Some mechs are unique to certain characters, the Yen Lo Wang is Justin Allard's ride for instance. It's a heavily modified CN9-A not a seperate mech design. Everybody could potentially get his config, but it wouldn't be THE Yen Lo Wang.

In short, random mook #8556 has a stock Vindicator VND-1R, Archon-Prince Victor Ian Steiner-Davion on the other hand has a Dire Wolf/Daishi with a custom config.

[Joseph Mallan]

Wolv e, on 09 July 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

Let me ask you this, WHY did we all, for lack of a better phrase, fall in love wiht Battletech tabletop game? We had pre-made mech sheets with their variaints to choose from and played them. It was FUN. It was challenging!! And if you used the right tactics, you won....

What I would like to see prevented is a "all purpose build" similiar to other games where you take a class and create a build and it beats all. This game is about strategy, using your surroundings, playing cat and ouse and above all have fun..........I do not think by allowing the "if it fits and you have the tonnage" it can be used scenario, because then why bother having various types of 55 ton mechs or even 100 tonners....why not just give the players 1 chasis from each tonnage and make their own mechs......I understand most arguements, but this is Battletech, We have mechs already made with variants and given Battletech HISTORY/LORE the reason WHY that specific mech does not have a ppc or an AC10 or whatever you wanted to stick on it.....

If the Devs decide to allow "if it fits and you have the tonnage" rule then I say just remove all mechs from the game and give us basic empty chassis and design your own mech.....................

My first mech was a Battlemaster with an XL engine(we called em fission engines not XL), double sinks(double weight double crits), and no MGs. And this was before 3050 was published! The guy who introduced me to BattleTech had ERPPCs that did 15 heat and damage before the Clans. They weighed 10 tons.

What I am proving is not everyone played the same BattleTech, but modifying the Mechs is an art form not to be trifled with.

[Onyx Rain]

Ruin the game for like 75% of the people playing it? Hmm....

Meh, To each their own but, I think OP is in the minority on this one....and thankfully so IMO.

Edited by Onyx Rain, 13 November 2012 - 11:14 AM.

[Elyam]

(repeat of previous comments made in other similar threads)

BT, and MW especially has always been about a common sense approach to customization within the resources that the MechWarrior is able to bring to the table. C-bills, reputation, contacts, salvage, access to battletechnicians and facilities that can actually do the planned change or upgrade. It was never handled under the notion that some things were innately impossible, nor were customizations ever viewed as shunned since "carrying that weapon is that other mech's role". Some alterations would require resources that simply weren't available to the warrior, or were too expensive, or would take too many years to pull off. But BT history is filled with countless stories of customized versions of mech's that represent mods that were within someone's means to accomplish, and the MW RPG was largely concerned with the players striving toward such as individuals and battle units.

BT/MW fans want MWO to honor this approach as much as possible, and from the same general mechanic: mech customization takes resources, and the meta-game should let us strive to gain them - yes, within reason - but be wary of any argument to not allow a mech to carry something even if the MechWarrior has the resources. MWO will find its balance by favoring the players' personal connections to their mech's and the meta-game accomplishments of themselves and their battle units - favoring this just a bit more than the needs of creating a finely-operating competition shooter.

[Psychobunny]

Im just going to say how i personaly like it.
Mech warrior 3 was amazing and i played it very much online, and it had alot of freedom, than came mechwarrior 4, and it had very nazty restrictions, didnt play those games much... MWO is perfect as it is, it has some restrictions, but alot of freedom, alot of creative options, that makes mechwarrior unique.
So much tactics in simply preparing for battle, dont change that plz..
i like it the way it is right now, dont want to much restrictions, otherwice i might as well play HAWKEN, the CoD of MWO..

ow and sorry for any spelling errors, havent ben posting in forums for years, untill now and the 1 befor, and i personaly dont mind spelling so much.

Edited by Psychobunny, 13 November 2012 - 11:22 AM.

[Psychobunny]

Joseph Mallan, on 13 November 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

My first mech was a Battlemaster with an XL engine(we called em fission engines not XL), double sinks(double weight double crits), and no MGs. And this was before 3050 was published! The guy who introduced me to BattleTech had ERPPCs that did 15 heat and damage before the Clans. They weighed 10 tons.

What I am proving is not everyone played the same BattleTech, but modifying the Mechs is an art form not to be trifled with.

i love that guy ^

[bigrigross]

No!

[Grizley]

Wolv e, on 09 July 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

One of the biggest problems with previous Battle tech games was the "universal customization" allowance. Meaing everyone thought just because they salvaged or puchased it, it was going to fit on their mech, even tho common sense said no. Like a PPC on Jenner.........not gonna happen, or at least should not.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jenner

Check out the A version and the KII.

One mounts a single Large Laser, the other mounts a pair of light PPCs.

Your point is invalid.

You also complained about light mechs rigged for knife fighting. The stock Jenner D runs 4 Med Lasers and a SRM 4, how much more rigged for knife fighting is too much? Is it when you add an XL engine and convert the SRM to 2 Streak 2s and extra heat sinks?

You clearly haven't got even a casual acquaintance with custom battlemechs in lore. Houses almost always come up with their preferred variant and Mercs don't run stock more often than not. The Jenner has 8 main variants and 3 custom variants listed on the page.

[r4plez]

@Wolv e uninstall this game, go play farmville instead

[Dagger6T6]

[Joseph Mallan]

Wolv e, on 09 July 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

One of the biggest problems with previous Battle tech games was the "universal customization" allowance. Meaing everyone thought just because they salvaged or puchased it, it was going to fit on their mech, even tho common sense said no. Like a PPC on Jenner.........not gonna happen, or at least should not. However if you have the tonnage or willing to sacrifice things, you could make it happen, and this brought on the light - medium mechs with 12-18 small pulse lasers circle straffing ppl (which has been addressed in this game).

However playing the IS WAS supposed to be hard, they were no Omni mechs like the clans, thus the IS had Variants of their mechs and this is what we need to stick to also...the variant models. Or at the least limit the amount of a specific type of weapon can be put on an IS mech.

An Atlas with 4 large pulse lasers would make no sense, as there is already a mech that has that config (Rifleman IIC) and the Atlas role if close and personal with beefy armor, or would you put 3 ER PPC on an Atlas, when the Awesome already has that config?

To be true to the table top game you also have to be true to the varaints and each mechs limitations, as each mech was built to fit a role with certain needs in mind.

The Omi mech (clan mechs and later the IS introduced their versions) Is the only mech capable of taking and swapping various weapson and heatsinks without penalty...........we should keep it like that. My 2 cents...FLAME ON!

There are rules for customization that could give us all a bit more of what we all want. The Solaris Customizing rules are quite restrictive yet flexible. Each player has X number of points to customize with. depending on the changes made you spent your points. with it I turned this:

Quote

[color=#000000]KGC-005 – The -005 [/color]King Crab[color=#000000] is an upgraded version of the 000 model. The Autocannons have been upgraded to [/color]LB-X Autocannon/20s[color=#000000] and the [/color]Large Laser[color=#000000] has been upgraded to an [/color]ER Large Laser[color=#000000]. The LRM-15 has been completely removed from the [/color]‘Mech[color=#000000] and replaced with two [/color]Streak SRM-4s[color=#000000]. The final upgrade is the inclusion of an [/color]improved C3 computer[color=#000000] to allow the [/color]King Crab[color=#000000] to work in concert with up to five other units sharing targeting telemetry.[/color]

Into this:

Quote

[color=#000000]KGC-005r - By removing the Large Laser, a Streak Launcher, and a half-ton of armor; engineers were able to cram a [/color]Heavy PPC[color=#000000] into the torso and upgrade the AC/20s to LB-X versions, each with three tons of ammunition. The remaining Streak system was reduced to a [standard] [/color]4-tube launcher[color=#000000].[/color]