344 replies to this topic

[J4ckInthebox]

Quote

Like a PPC on Jenner.........not gonna happen, or at least should not

There is a canon Urbanmech variant with an Ac/20, why a Jenner shoundn't be able to carry a PPC ? i don't understand.

Edited by J4ckInthebox, 24 November 2012 - 04:38 AM.

[Gogopher]

lol...not to be caustic or offensive...but dude seriously...how many (and there are tons) of mech books are out there in the battletech universe...and there are tons of variants...the most appealing aspect of this game is the ability to design what u want within the very reasonable limitations tha pgi has placed with regards to hardpoints (which in my TT game we use as a way to limit designs as a house rule anyways)

want a commando with an ERppc...have at it...want an atlas as an energy build buy a Kcopy...so on and so forth...it separates the wheat from the chaff...and allows each player to have his/her own style...if anything there isnt enough creative freedom for my tastes...but i can live with what we have since i enjoy running a wide range of mechs and variants

[Osiris1975]

Wolv e, on 09 July 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

What I would like to see prevented is a "all purpose build" similiar to other games where you take a class and create a build and it beats all. This game is about strategy, using your surroundings, playing cat and ouse and above all have fun..........I do not think by allowing the "if it fits and you have the tonnage" it can be used scenario,

You seem to be ignoring the fact that tonnage isn't the only limitation. You also have to contend with:

• Heat Generation
  
• Critical Space
  
• Hardpoints

Spend some time with the java mechbay tool, and you'll quickly find out that you can't make the 'beats everything' mech you are worried about. I've tried. In fact I've put a PPC on a jenner. Go ahead and try it and you'll see what you have to sacrifice to do it.

Every mech build has to create weaknesses in order to create strengths. It is your job to exploit the former and avoid the latter when it comes to the enemy, and to mask the former and make use of the latter when it comes to your own mech.


The only problem I have with mech customization is there aren't ENOUGH options: there needs to be options for half-ton ammo packages (with half the ammo) and other half-ton customizations more armor options besides standard and FF, such as ones that use less criticals but for less benefit than FF (after the fix FF of course).

So gotta disagree with you, mech customization needs to be expanded, not limited.

Edited by Osiris1975, 24 November 2012 - 05:06 AM.

[MWHawke]

I'm thinking that any mech design that a person does not favour will be up for complaint. In that case, let's settle it once and for all..

PGI, READ THIS:


THIS GAME SHOULD ONLY HAVE 1 CHASSIS AND 1 WEAPON WHICH CAUSES 1 DAMAGE.

Problem solved.

[Calon Farstar]

MWHawke, on 24 November 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

WRONG! Omnimechs have the ability to fit ANY weapon type into the modules in that area of the mech. IS mechs right now do NOT have that ability. They are limited to the weapons class in that area AND in the limited numbers of weapons they were designed with.

Woa! Isn't that what I said. You will be restricted to the number of hardpoints available but not weapon types. So a Omni mech would have say 5 weapon hard points in right arm (Thinking of a Daishi) for example. You would be able to put any combination of missile, laser, ballistic in those 5 spots bu you would be limited to just 5 types of weapons. Not really that restrictive at all.

[Calon Farstar]

Cmdr Harabec, on 24 November 2012 - 03:49 AM, said:

I don't see how people don't have a problem with Catapults. They're much better than most mechs by default, and the K2 is just a slap in the face to most other Heavies by allowing it to rock the heavy hitting ballistics when it's supposed to be a heavy-energy variant.

I do like the system you described, though, and have brought it up before. I think varying the critical slot space on areas of the mechs would be wonderful to reflect the size of the components - as long as you kept the total the same. That said, this system will make messing around with DHS weird on certain variants, but it does what I think should be done much more often in MWO as opposed to the tabletop: really diversify the different Mechs within the weight classes and, potentially, the variants within the Mechs within those weight classes!

Ultimately, though, I think a simple size system attached to each weapon hardpoint would be a bit simpler. Not an MW4 style system, but just an extra modifier. This ballistic hardpoint is small, so I can only mount AC/2s or machineguns. This energy hardpoint is medium, so I can mount a large laser or anything below that, but still only one of them.

Really, though - I'd be happy with either of these systems. They'd rearrange the limits to your customization, and prevent imbalanced combinations like the Dual Gauss/AC20 Cats.

As for what someone else said, yes, I'm baffled too why the 4x has four ballistic hardpoints, but then PGI seems to like mechs trampling on other mechs' territory. Catapult doing the Rifleman's job of potentially mounting dual AC/20s (or dual gauss, something the Cata shared with the rifleman, both in potentially hittable places on designs that also feature hittable side torsos to make an XL harder to run with less torso twist) and now Cataphract doing Rifleman's job of mounting quad AC/2s or AC/5s. I just don't see the point to it doing so when there's another Mech coming along that does just that legitimately, even if it won't be in the game for a while.

I totally agree. The 4x reminds me of an Annihilator, now that would be cool mech for MWO.

I

[MWHawke]

Calon Farstar, on 24 November 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

Woa! Isn't that what I said. You will be restricted to the number of hardpoints available but not weapon types. So a Omni mech would have say 5 weapon hard points in right arm (Thinking of a Daishi) for example. You would be able to put any combination of missile, laser, ballistic in those 5 spots bu you would be limited to just 5 types of weapons. Not really that restrictive at all.

I was responding to this part :

"Having different chassis bring the variety to the game that makes it awesome. I do however think that some of the customizations go against laws of physics. like replacing a 1 critical machine gun with a 6 critical AC5ultra. What do these mechs have small black hole generators to fit in? I maybe just a bit OCD about this stuff. There are lots of other issues I coulg go on about. Like ranges of weapons that with today's technology are insanely short."

It sounded like you were saying that we should not be able to customize ANY of that weapon type because that would make the mech an OMNI

[Axeman1]

That's enough New mexico, That's enough.

[soapyfrog]

The MW4 system was quite nice, I think some ideas could be adapted from that, maybe rating hardpoints by the possible number of critical spaces they can use up.

[Joseph Mallan]

Quote

Like a PPC on Jenner.........not gonna happen, or at least should not

Meet Grace II

Quote

Jenner Grace II - Refitted prior to the WoB War, the prototype chassis and armor of Grace's Jenner were swapped for now refined production grade components. While retaining the Narc Beacon, dropping its ammo to a single ton along with the removal of her 'Mechs jump jets allowed it to replace the two medium lasers with a pair of Light PPCs and add a C3 Slave Unit to enhance her spotter role.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 24 November 2012 - 10:04 AM.

[Khobai]

Im fine with having open mech construction. However there should also be an optional gamemode for stock mechs only. MW3 and MW4 both had that option.


Battletech customization basically goes like this:
1) can I haz gauss rifle? if yes, put on as many gauss rifles as will fit
2) does gauss rifle no fit? if yes, put as many ppcs as your heat allows
3) haz spare tons and crits? if yes, put on as many medium lasers as will fit

Every custom mech ive ever made ends up with like 2-3 gauss rifles, a ppc, and 2-4 medium lasers. And it completely obliterates every other mech with minimal heat buildup. Because those three weapons completely pwn everything in tabletop. The only difference in MWO is that PPCs suck so its mostly just gauss, medium lasers, and streaks.

Edited by Khobai, 24 November 2012 - 10:16 AM.

[MWHawke]

Khobai, on 24 November 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

Im fine with having open mech construction. However there should also be an optional gamemode for stock mechs only. MW3 and MW4 both had that option.


Battletech customization basically goes like this:
1) can I haz gauss rifle? if yes, put on as many gauss rifles as will fit
2) does gauss rifle no fit? if yes, put as many ppcs as your heat allows
3) haz spare tons and crits? if yes, put on as many medium lasers as will fit

Every custom mech ive ever made ends up with like 2-3 gauss rifles, a ppc, and 2-4 medium lasers. And it completely obliterates every other mech with minimal heat buildup. Because those three weapons completely pwn everything in tabletop. The only difference in MWO is that PPCs suck so its mostly just gauss, medium lasers, and streaks.

I use ER PPCs. And I have seen LRMs demolish opponents real quick. And I have seen mechs loaded up with AC 2s and AC 5s and UAC 5s.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

MWHawke, on 24 November 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

I'm thinking that any mech design that a person does not favour will be up for complaint. In that case, let's settle it once and for all..

PGI, READ THIS:


THIS GAME SHOULD ONLY HAVE 1 CHASSIS AND 1 WEAPON WHICH CAUSES 1 DAMAGE.

Problem solved.

And range 90m.Balanced game for most players

[SpiralRazor]

Its ALREADY quite limited herpaderpa!!!!!



pick up a battletech book sometime and youll see what im talking about.

DCLXVI, on 24 November 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

Instead of nerfing the hardpoints they should just put a damage penalty on the number of times the same weapon is equipped. Second ac20, guass or lb10x gets a fifty percent damage penalty while the third, fourth and fifth missile hardpoint gets another appropriate damage penalty. This way each weapon won't get nerfed to the point where the rest of the mechs won't be able to make use of one of each hardpoint configs.

That makes zero...sense...zero sir...ZERO I SAY. If something like that was ever pushed through, you would see the 95% of the purists leave en masse within days. Some have already quit on the game, even with having spent 120$

Edited by SpiralRazor, 24 November 2012 - 11:03 AM.

[Melcyna]

Khobai, on 24 November 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

Im fine with having open mech construction. However there should also be an optional gamemode for stock mechs only. MW3 and MW4 both had that option.


Battletech customization basically goes like this:
1) can I haz gauss rifle? if yes, put on as many gauss rifles as will fit
2) does gauss rifle no fit? if yes, put as many ppcs as your heat allows
3) haz spare tons and crits? if yes, put on as many medium lasers as will fit

Every custom mech ive ever made ends up with like 2-3 gauss rifles, a ppc, and 2-4 medium lasers. And it completely obliterates every other mech with minimal heat buildup. Because those three weapons completely pwn everything in tabletop. The only difference in MWO is that PPCs suck so its mostly just gauss, medium lasers, and streaks.

streaks actually are bad efficiency wise...

however, MWO have a serious issue with it's interpolating mechanism that's supposed to help players see a more accurate interpretation of the field as his latency would suggest.

streak only real strength is the fact that it allows players to bypass this limitation set by MWO network code system and interpolation mechanism.

at least now it's not as bad as before the patch... during the 25th oct patch the interpolation went completely BONKERS...

now at least it's just very poor... but not as bad as it was then after open beta patch.

[Imagine Dragons]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 November 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

Meet Grace II

Those two "light" PPCs weigh less than a normal PPC...

... With tech we don't even have yet, ingame and in timeline...

[MWHawke]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 24 November 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

And range 90m.Balanced game for most players

Oh yeh.. That too

[Fiachdubh]

Agree totally, the TT rules on customization are ridiculous and at odds with the fiction. It is meant to be very difficult and expensive to make changes which made the Clan omni system such a big deal. Seriously the rules allowed any weapon in the legs if enough crits free there. Would prefare to see much more limited customization, make it a big deal when you can do it and end the plague of Streak Cats.

[Langstes]

Wolv e, on 09 July 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

One of the biggest problems with previous Battle tech games was the "universal customization" allowance. Meaing everyone thought just because they salvaged or puchased it, it was going to fit on their mech, even tho common sense said no. Like a PPC on Jenner.........not gonna happen, or at least should not. However if you have the tonnage or willing to sacrifice things, you could make it happen, and this brought on the light - medium mechs with 12-18 small pulse lasers circle straffing ppl (which has been addressed in this game).

However playing the IS WAS supposed to be hard, they were no Omni mechs like the clans, thus the IS had Variants of their mechs and this is what we need to stick to also...the variant models. Or at the least limit the amount of a specific type of weapon can be put on an IS mech.

An Atlas with 4 large pulse lasers would make no sense, as there is already a mech that has that config (Rifleman IIC) and the Atlas role if close and personal with beefy armor, or would you put 3 ER PPC on an Atlas, when the Awesome already has that config?

To be true to the table top game you also have to be true to the varaints and each mechs limitations, as each mech was built to fit a role with certain needs in mind.

The Omi mech (clan mechs and later the IS introduced their versions) Is the only mech capable of taking and swapping various weapson and heatsinks without penalty...........we should keep it like that. My 2 cents...FLAME ON!

Dude, you are so lame to complain. Even the IS costomized there mechs. The variants are the base line mechs. This does not mean that you can not change your loadout. Look what Justin Allard did with Yen-Lo-Wang.

[MWHawke]

Fiachdubh, on 25 November 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

Agree totally, the TT rules on customization are ridiculous and at odds with the fiction. It is meant to be very difficult and expensive to make changes which made the Clan omni system such a big deal. Seriously the rules allowed any weapon in the legs if enough crits free there. Would prefare to see much more limited customization, make it a big deal when you can do it and end the plague of Streak Cats.

Great.. another complaint bout Streakcats. Pls go to other threads.