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Pts 3 Review


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#1 Alistair Winter

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 02:25 AM

It's time to forget about all the current controversies about MWO, wipe the slate clean and look at PTS with some level of objectivity. Here goes!

Skill tree changes
Basically, all skills have been nerfed. Arm reflex has been reduced from 15% (30% when elited) to 2.5% (5% when elited), for example. The end result is that every mech in the game has had mobility, agility and firepower slightly nerfed. The bad news is that grinding will now feel a bit meaningless, because there won't really be a huge difference between a new mech and a mastered mech. The good news is that veteran players in mastered won't have a huge advantage over new players in new mechs. More importantly... one major problem in MWO has been that all mechs were too agile, and it was very hard for light mechs to use their agility against heavy mechs. It was way too easy for heavies and assaults to track light mechs as they tried to evade fire. Also, a global nerf of heat dissipation and maximum heat treshold is basically a global increase of Time To Kill. This is very good.

Verdict: Good change overall.

Heat sinks
Inner Sphere Single heat sinks have been buffed slightly. This is something the fans have been asking for, but the change is less than 10%, so it's ultimately meaningless. It's a step in the right direction, but the step is about two inches. Clan double heat sinks outside the engine (where you have TrueDubs) have been nerfed. This is a good thing, and it's far more simple and elegant than a million negative quirks to deal with the TBR, SCR, EBJ, WHK, HBR, DW and ACH. The bad news is that it indirectly affects mechs like the Summoner and Adder. But it's always better to lay down blanket nerfs that can be countered by quirks for specific mechs, rather than relying on individual nerfs for every mech.

Verdict: Good change overall. (But buff those SHS for God's sake)

LRMs
Both IS and Clan LRMs have received tighter spreads and longer cooldown. This reduces the constant LRM spam rattling your cockpit, but it makes the first salvo a lot more deadly. The first salvo is the most important, because good players will rarely stand in the open long enough to eat multiple salvos.

It also encourages large salvos as opposed to chain firing LRM5s, because that single 4xLRM15 blast is now going to be more devastating. LRM20s may even be viable now. It does lead to lower DPS overall, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing. The issue with LRMs used to be that they did a lot of damage (great for farming C-bills) while spreading that damage all over and not getting kills. There will be less of that now.

Verdict: Good change overall (But where's the velocity increase, for God's sake?)

Lasers
IS ER large lasers and LPLs have received greater maximum range, for more long range sniping vs clan mechs. MPLs now receive ghost heat, which is bad news for MPL Thunderbolts and Grasshoppers. Clan small and medium lasers and pulse lasers receive maximum range buffs.

Verdict: Meh. It's ok.

SRMs and SSRMs
Huge speed increase for SRMs, from 300 m/s to 400 m/s. This will increase viability of SRM builds, particularly against light mechs. Perhaps contributing to less laservomit and laserboating. Maybe we'll see more laser+SRM timber wolves, for example. Both IS and Clan Streaks have received extra speed as well. This is a bad thing, because it basically means it'll be impossible for light mechs to evade streaks once they have been fired. Granted, it will now be harder to get a lock on light mechs (due to new Infotech rules), but once that Streakcrow fires 6xSSRM6, your light mech is going to get crippled no matter what.

Verdict: Good and bad.

Ballistics
Gauss rifles have received longer cooldown. This is something I have been asking for since forever. Great news. Both IS and Clan AC2s now get lower heat and additional crit damage. This is not enough to make them viable, but it's a step in the right direction.

Verdict: Good.

Mech Target Profiles
It seems to be like these values (a maximum 1 second delay against smallest light mechs) are a bit insignificant, but I suppose it will add up with the fact that larger mechs in MWO will generally require more time to get target locks at all. So Dire Wolves vs Locusts will receive double penalties, because the DW will have reduced sensors and Locusts smaller target profiles. I suppose it's better to start small and then play with bigger values later.

Verdict: Good

All in all, I like the things they're testing for PTS 3.0, as I liked the direction of previous PTS sessions as well. It's not perfect, but I think it's an improvement. A lot of the things that I, and others on the MWO forum, have been asking for, are now being tested and hopefully implemented in the near future. PGI is finally applying simple, global changes, instead of messing around with so many quirks and bandaids.

Perhaps I will change my mind when I actually try it for myself, but so far, it looks good.

Thumbs up.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 04 November 2015 - 02:26 AM.


#2 Wintersdark

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 03:21 AM

Minor note. SHS I'm Live are 1.0. Going to 1.2 is a 20% buff: substantial.

However, TruDubs being 2.0 is still huge, this means SHS will only be becoming comparable at very large numbers. Not as high as before - used to be ~30ish.. Maybe 20 now? Haven't run the numbers yet. Probably still just bad 99% of the time, but a lot better than they where.

The 1.1 referenced in the PTS notes is what they were at last PTS.

#3 Alistair Winter

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 03:26 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 04 November 2015 - 03:21 AM, said:

Minor note. SHS I'm Live are 1.0. Going to 1.2 is a 20% buff: substantial.

However, TruDubs being 2.0 is still huge, this means SHS will only be becoming comparable at very large numbers. Not as high as before - used to be ~30ish.. Maybe 20 now? Haven't run the numbers yet. Probably still just bad 99% of the time, but a lot better than they where.

The 1.1 referenced in the PTS notes is what they were at last PTS.

Ah, that's good news. If this is the case, then I really look forward to the PTS tonight. I'm not convinced that they'll be viable, but I haven't really done the math.

So the idea is that SHS will have substantially improved cooling rate, while DHS have higher heat capacity? If the development continues, SHS will be better for sustained engagements and damage over time, while DHS will be better for burst fire with hot weapons and then cooling down behind cover, presumably. This could lead to an interesting dynamic.

But right now, I suppose it just means that certain builds (such as light mechs that sacrifice DHS to make room for XL engine, Endo and FF) will be viable even with SHS.

#4 sycocys

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 03:44 AM

The one thing that annoyed me is that they didn't attempt to address the "ghost damage" mechanic that other people were having an issue with where you dynamic optimal range didn't lock to your targeted range.

Also speed tweak really wasn't necessary to keep at 10%.

#5 l33tworks

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 03:46 AM

View Postsycocys, on 04 November 2015 - 03:44 AM, said:

The one thing that annoyed me is that they didn't attempt to address the "ghost damage" mechanic that other people were having an issue with where you dynamic optimal range didn't lock to your targeted range.

Also speed tweak really wasn't necessary to keep at 10%.


Please tell me they don't still have the the no hit reg marker and lock target for full damage thing going on?

The best change so far is the reduction in skill tree values. Hopefully it brings the ridiculous speed of the game back down a bit.

Edited by l33tworks, 04 November 2015 - 03:48 AM.


#6 Alistair Winter

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 03:46 AM

View Postsycocys, on 04 November 2015 - 03:44 AM, said:

The one thing that annoyed me is that they didn't attempt to address the "ghost damage" mechanic that other people were having an issue with where you dynamic optimal range didn't lock to your targeted range.

I wasn't aware of this issue.

View Postsycocys, on 04 November 2015 - 03:44 AM, said:

Also speed tweak really wasn't necessary to keep at 10%.

I agree with this. Speed tweak should be removed untill they implement multiple skill trees for different roles.

#7 sycocys

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 03:56 AM

View Postl33tworks, on 04 November 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:


Please tell me they don't still have the the no hit reg marker and lock target for full damage thing going on?

The best change so far is the reduction in skill tree values. Hopefully it brings the ridiculous speed of the game back down a bit.

Notes had the dynamic ranging still listed with the updates to the system being that it would "properly" show your range based on whether you were on target or off. Shouldn't have been to hard to just lock the optimal ranges to what you targeted or less if you don't target anything and would have been a solid middle ground on the issue.

#8 627

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 03:58 AM

quick heat sink calculation. This is just IS, by the way.

Max number of DHS in viable builds is around 22. So 22 DHS will get you
36,8 HpS (heat per second)

to match that with SHS you need 30 (ending with 36 HpS)

So 8 tons more for something like 16 crit slots free. (not counting extra in-engine heat sinks)

To get to 20HpS with singles you now need 17 SHS (20,4HpS), that's 7 tons more for no free crit space.

So boating SHS could be viable for Assault laser boats...

Edited by 627, 04 November 2015 - 04:00 AM.


#9 kesmai

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 05:03 AM

Or PPC awesomes... Banshees... Stalkers... Or not at all.

#10 Narcissistic Martyr

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 05:10 AM

Muwahahahaha!!!

AC20 Raven got a buff!

Choke on it meta ******!

#11 Mcgral18

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 05:35 AM

View Postsycocys, on 04 November 2015 - 03:44 AM, said:

The one thing that annoyed me is that they didn't attempt to address the "ghost damage" mechanic that other people were having an issue with where you dynamic optimal range didn't lock to your targeted range.


We'll see how they change ECM as well. Remember that's supposed to add 3 seconds to your Dorito acquisition.


It would prove our point wonderfully about Ghost Damage being rubbish for optimal range.
Wonder what they'll set the Hesus Field at. They turned it off completely for PTS2, live being 25% sensor range for Dorito acquisition.


Alistair don't forget about the PoorDub issue. LOLcust, Myth Lynx, Urbie; Clam trash tiers got blanket nerfed again, probably won't even get compensation.

#12 Alistair Winter

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 05:40 AM

The best part about the weapon balancing is that they've managed to globally increase Time To Kill and increase viability of SRMs and LRMs without adding DPS and also reducing the effectiveness of the current laservomit + gauss meta. So many times, PGI has buffed one weapon to indirectly nerf another weapon, which just leads to another one-sided meta.

Together with the infotech changes and the removal of most weapon quirks, TTK is going to increase drastically when the game is rebalanced. Less effective MPL boats, less effective laservomit Clan mechs, less gauss+laser Clan heavies, less effective dual gauss dire whales, etc. If they keep buffing SRMs, maybe there will even come a time when people start using Victors and Highlanders again. Who knows.

View PostMcgral18, on 04 November 2015 - 05:35 AM, said:

Alistair don't forget about the PoorDub issue. LOLcust, Myth Lynx, Urbie; Clam trash tiers got blanket nerfed again, probably won't even get compensation.

Hey, I weep for the dual CERPPC Adder. But like I said, I think it's better to treat those mechs as exceptions to the rule and give them special buffs, instead of making Clan DHS so great and then bombarding most Clan mechs with negative quirks.

The 6SPL Locust is still going to be pretty good.

The Myth Lynx will never be a good mech untill they redesign the weapon geometry and / or add some more omnipods with weapons in the torso.

#13 Sarlic

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 05:42 AM

I am not too sure what to think of it.

The skills changes are a warm welcome. That one was in no doubt needed. As most mechs are incredible superiour once it's mastered.

The downside i have to work even more in a Orion or Atlas. Not that it matters but it's a switch everybody needs to take. Some builds will even be affected. More challenging!

I personally find this a good change. Although i would like have seen different -balanced- mastering values for weight classes and not the nerfbat on the whole skill system.

Heatsinks: Overall good change.

LRMS. I was hoping for a little bit more. But reasonable. And i agree on the ballistics. Great change.

I need to test (S)SRM changes out before i make my judgement about it. But i personally don't think the speed increase is enough. The IS SRM6 has awful spread, and the SSRM 2 still sucks hard. Even with a speed increase.

The SRM has been always troubling so far. Wheter it's hitreg, latency issues or what else. I don't think 'just a speed increase' will solve it.

I hope i am wrong though.

It's something. Off to a small start.

The only thing that i am afraid of is that the damage has been already done and i dont see that many people testing it.

#14 Shae Starfyre

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 06:15 AM

I wonder if the mobility changes will severally effect Assault so much that they are rarely used outside organized play.

#15 sycocys

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 06:28 AM

Maybe they did it, but just didn't list it, but about the dynamic ranging I'm more surprised that they didn't adjust the 60% blanket range for non-targeting. That alone would have alleviated a bunch of the weird way it works.

Most of the stuff though seems on the whole like a much better approach to get things rolling back into the right direction.

#16 Screech

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 06:37 AM

Don't think that SRM speed change will help at all since they have retained their bottle rocket flight path. Ditch the random flight path of SRMs and you will be on your way of making them viable. It would also most likely help with their hit detection. Though honestly nothing listed really sent any tingle up the leg.

#17 Lostdragon

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 06:54 AM

It's really frustrating they are not addressing the lighter mechs that get screwed out of double heat sinks.

#18 SaltBeef

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 06:58 AM

Clans are getting less fun , more tryhard. More heat, Less impulse, fixed equiptment, Laser Range advantage reduced to under 100 meters, smaller radar ranges info tech, Very little PP damage, while the IS players get better heat dissipation, more Quirked structure, Higher firing rates, Less Ghost heat penaties.

Clan advantage, XL side torso loss. Higher damage on Laser weapons.

IS advantages, Cooler weapons, More impulse effect on enemy targets, More PP damage advantage to players with Better aim. Heat sinks made better to make IS mechs even cooler now. Larger info tech detection ranges.

What makes Clan mech fun ,...the Bloooooo HUD!








#19 Tennex

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 07:20 AM

ONLY the clan Gauss needed the nerf IMO.

Clan gauss is lighter and occupies less crit space than IS Gauss. Yet there are no drawbacks. This was their chance to introduce that drawback to clan Gauss.

There are no IS builds where gauss dominate, but its seen in clan mechs frequently to go with a laser vomit build

#20 Shae Starfyre

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 07:23 AM

View PostTennex, on 04 November 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

ONLY the clan Gauss needed the nerf IMO.

Clan gauss is lighter and occupies less crit space than IS Gauss. Yet there are no drawbacks. This was their chance to introduce that drawback to clan Gauss.

There are no IS builds where gauss dominate, but its seen in clan mechs frequently to go with a laser vomit build


It may actually sync better with laser builds hold on target duration.

I think almost everything they are doing in this Test 3 is not that significant in and of itself, but when combined with what potentially will be the other 2 test changes, we may have an entirely different game, that's to be sure.





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