27 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

The "focusing range nerf" that people are calling Ghost Damage should only apply to long-range Lasers.

The whole reason for this nerf was to curb Laser Alpha Sniping. This sniping does not occur when a light Mech runs around with IS medium or small Lasers.

The Laser Focusing Nerf should only affect weapons with a range longer than 400m (if the nerf were to remain in effect)

[Darian DelFord]

+ 1 billion!!

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Actually the shorter the range the bigger the issue. Long range lasers (LL and ERLL) have longer burn times and easier to evade. The shorter the burn time the greater the need for the targeting requirement. PGI is well aware of the playstyle they are targeting, it is as much the SPL drive-by mechs as the ML + LPL combos.

Edited by Agent 0 Fortune, 05 November 2015 - 10:28 AM.

[SpiralFace]

Prosperity Park, on 05 November 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

The "focusing range nerf" that people are calling Ghost Damage should only apply to long-range Lasers.

The whole reason for this nerf was to curb Laser Alpha Sniping. This sniping does not occur when a light Mech runs around with IS medium or small Lasers.

The Laser Focusing Nerf should only affect weapons with a range longer than 400m (if the nerf were to remain in effect)

I don't disagree with your assesment of its intent, but let me point out the flaw in the logic.

First off, Its a wide ranging nerf that affects a VAST majority of the mechs in the game. And its not insignificant. In Paul's example, if you where to shoot someone at optimum range with a medium laser, you would only do 60% of that lasers total damage at range. (from 5 damage to 3 damage.)

THAT IS HUGE!

Thats close to a 50% loss in efficiency at OPTIMAL range. Its insanely heavy handed, when the weapon already got "soft nerfed" by the loss in cooling efficiency, and ability for heavier mechs to keep on target due to the gutting of the skill tree.

This will not curb its use, it will destroy any semblance that it is a viable weapon. People will migrate back to PPC AC5 or PPC Gauss. ITS ALREADY HAPPENING ON PTS. This is so heavy handed that it removes it as a viable option and people will just cycle over to the next thing.

Only now, with heavy balistics, that "next thing" will be next to impossible for most mechs of a certain tonnage to chase.

The next issue is its ties to Info warfare.

This is the ONLY direct fire weapon tied to info tech beyond streaks. This disporportionatly means that info tech is almost NEEDED to use these weapons in any functional way.

But heavy laser boats actually tend to be the ones with less info tech (most likely because lasers are still a steal at their tonnage for damage output.)

So to use them effectively, you then need to either cover your bases, or just flat out use a different mech / weapon system.

This change was made probably with the best intentions, but it is not a good change as it currently stands.

It is INSANELY heavy handed, and will lead to weapon migration, and the fact that info tech becomes almost REQUIRED to effectively use the weapons means only a few amount of mechs would even have them as a viable option. And the fact that it is the ONLY direct fire weapon that needs info tech to properly function is just a whole other mess.

Needs MUCH more refinement, and ALL the weapons to be treated under the same system for this to be viable.

[Christof Romulus]

SpiralFace, on 05 November 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

I don't disagree with your assesment of its intent, but let me point out the flaw in the logic.

First off, Its a wide ranging nerf that affects a VAST majority of the mechs in the game. And its not insignificant. In Paul's example, if you where to shoot someone at optimum range with a medium laser, you would only do 60% of that lasers total damage at range. (from 5 damage to 3 damage.)

THAT IS HUGE!

Thats close to a 50% loss in efficiency at OPTIMAL range. Its insanely heavy handed, when the weapon already got "soft nerfed" by the loss in cooling efficiency, and ability for heavier mechs to keep on target due to the gutting of the skill tree.

This will not curb its use, it will destroy any semblance that it is a viable weapon. People will migrate back to PPC AC5 or PPC Gauss. ITS ALREADY HAPPENING ON PTS. This is so heavy handed that it removes it as a viable option and people will just cycle over to the next thing.

Only now, with heavy balistics, that "next thing" will be next to impossible for most mechs of a certain tonnage to chase.

The next issue is its ties to Info warfare.

This is the ONLY direct fire weapon tied to info tech beyond streaks. This disporportionatly means that info tech is almost NEEDED to use these weapons in any functional way.

But heavy laser boats actually tend to be the ones with less info tech (most likely because lasers are still a steal at their tonnage for damage output.)

So to use them effectively, you then need to either cover your bases, or just flat out use a different mech / weapon system.

This change was made probably with the best intentions, but it is not a good change as it currently stands.

It is INSANELY heavy handed, and will lead to weapon migration, and the fact that info tech becomes almost REQUIRED to effectively use the weapons means only a few amount of mechs would even have them as a viable option. And the fact that it is the ONLY direct fire weapon that needs info tech to properly function is just a whole other mess.

Needs MUCH more refinement, and ALL the weapons to be treated under the same system for this to be viable.

RIGHT!

Or... you know. Press 'r'...

[FupDup]

It shouldn't apply to any of the lasers, or any other weapon type.

[kapusta11]

Long range lasers are already affected by Ghost Heat. People who complain about laser vomit complain about 50 damage plus medium range alphas not 27 long range ones.

[FupDup]

kapusta11, on 05 November 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

Long range lasers are already affected by Ghost Heat. People who complain about laser vomit complain about 50 damage plus medium range alphas not 27 long range ones.

There are actually many forum complains about 36-damage alphas with 185m range...

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Prosperity Park, on 05 November 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

The "focusing range nerf" that people are calling Ghost Damage should only apply to long-range Lasers.

The whole reason for this nerf was to curb Laser Alpha Sniping. This sniping does not occur when a light Mech runs around with IS medium or small Lasers.

The Laser Focusing Nerf should only affect weapons with a range longer than 400m (if the nerf were to remain in effect)

Agreed. Ive already made a thread in general and pts feedback about it, hopefully they listen.

[Felio]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 05 November 2015 - 10:28 AM, said:

Actually the shorter the range the bigger the issue. Long range lasers (LL and ERLL) have longer burn times and easier to evade. The shorter the burn time the greater the need for the targeting requirement. PGI is well aware of the playstyle they are targeting, it is as much the SPL drive-by mechs as the ML + LPL combos.

Take away the drive-by, and what do light mechs have?

[FupDup]

Felio, on 05 November 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

Take away the drive-by, and what do light mechs have?

Infotech quirks, brah!

[Felicitatem Parco]

FupDup, on 05 November 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

Infotech quirks, brah!

NON-CONSTRUCTIVE! I have alerted the local authorities to your insolence!

Seriously, though, short-tange super laser alphas are fine. If a light Mech got to close range, then it deserves to shoot you.

We really need to make a fuss about how Light Mechs do not need this nerf. Lights depend on energy weapons to exist, and mostly medium and small Lasers. Please, please, try to share this idea with others - IF the focusing nerf is to remain, it SHOULD NOT affect short-range Lasers.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 05 November 2015 - 11:28 AM.

[pwnface]

Get ready for your thread to be moved to PTS section of the forum just like mine.

[Monkey Lover]

I don't think this has anything to do with laser sniping. It has more to do with decreasing ttk and balancing with other weapons.

[cSand]

I still don't think laser range or damage is a big issue. 1 or 2 ERLL or c ERLL or cERML or w/e from range isn't an issue

It is the ability to fire many of them at once and do huge damage. No-repercussion huge alphas are the problem

But instead of fixing what enables those, IE perfect convergence and EZ mode heat scale, we are getting a weird mechanic on top of the current system.

On the other hand I do like how having mechs get targets for you is now necessary if you want to play the poke game from 800m out. Which means that someone is gonna have to be up close getting LOS on the enemy for the snipers and LRMers.

[BattleBunny]

Prosperity Park, on 05 November 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

(if the nerf were to remain in effect)

I really hope they let this one go. Just reduce laser max range or something. or decrease damage. Anything but this weird system.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Felio, on 05 November 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

Take away the drive-by, and what do light mechs have?

You don't have to give up drive-by, only adjust your strategy.
1. You could drive closer, you weapons still do full damage at point blank (60% of normal range)
2. You could use longer range lasers (extending that point blank range further)
3. You could use weapons other than lasers
4. Finally you could hit the 'R' key to target your opponent. keeping in mind that once you target an opponent they will remain you target and when ever you have LOS they will be re-targeted automatically.

[Nightmare1]

Shoot, I didn't even think about what this would do to my Lights!

*Funeral dirge*

Goodbye Ember and Pirate's Bane with your quad MLs! So long Panthers and Wolfhounds! Hasta Luego, mi Commando!

Edited by Nightmare1, 05 November 2015 - 12:35 PM.

[Malagant]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 05 November 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

You don't have to give up drive-by, only adjust your strategy.
1. You could drive closer, you weapons still do full damage at point blank (60% of normal range)
2. You could use longer range lasers (extending that point blank range further)
3. You could use weapons other than lasers
4. Finally you could hit the 'R' key to target your opponent. keeping in mind that once you target an opponent they will remain you target and when ever you have LOS they will be re-targeted automatically.

Except for that pesky radar deprivation mod...

[Khobai]

I think the focusing nerf should apply to ALL weapons

all weapons should do less damage if youre not locked on the target

its dumb to single out lasers...