22 replies to this topic

[Krellshand]

So, I am not a big fan of missle boats, but still I have a few missle based mechs in my vault, and, more annoying, I like to play lights as scouts that sport a NARC - and right now, its a completely wasted hardpoint and tonnage.

I just played a game with my 2*LRM20 Summoner who has a CAP and a NARC, to be a bit more self reliant. The enemy however had 5 (!) ECM Mechs, so I could NARC what I wanted, it always had another ECM Mech to cover it up. I know ECM does NOT do what it does accodring to the fluff, so how about making a 3+ ton "weapon" more effective - like NOT beeing affected by ECM, and you can only NARC one target at a time or sth like that.

I mean, you get NARCD'? Go hide behind a rock and weather the storm... its NOT like you get killed by LRMS easily, and the NARC has to come pretty close anyway to tag you.

There is no reason to play as a scout right now - go get laserz and do damage as a mini Rambo affects the game way more than it should.

I really dislike these invisible bubbles that are there right now, as it makes the whole "lock on", "scout" and "survey" aspect of the game irrelevant.

[Clit Beastwood]

Why not just build/take a better mech?

[Monkey Lover]

Go to the test server and see what they're doing.

[Jzaltheral]

Monkey Lover, on 05 November 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Go to the test server and see what they're doing.

This, pretty much. PGI is already working on changes to ECM that will make it less of a magic invisibility cloak. No telling when that might hit the live servers though.

[Krellshand]

Well, because it is kind of boring to ignore a complete branch/aspect of a game and concentrate on the other.

Damage works fine, I have a ton of mechs and builds that work perfectly well and I seldom have a bad game (<500dmg), BUT I think it should be more diversified -

Light Mechs thats SCOUT the other team, lighting them up and keep em tracked should earn you SOME credits and impact the game.

@Monkey Lover - can you sum up the ECM changes? I skipped through the PTS notes without niticing any significant ECM changes, but I might have missed them

[Peter2k]

Krellshand, on 05 November 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

@Monkey Lover - can you sum up the ECM changes? I skipped through the PTS notes without niticing any significant ECM changes, but I might have missed them

ecm doesn't hide the mech and prevents a lock on

it delays the lock on (I think for 3 seconds, but do keep in mind numbers are not final)

also might have been mentioned in the notes before this weeks pts
no idea if it's in currently though, that was last pts session

I think this week's pts has also the detection range changes in

Edited by Peter2k, 05 November 2015 - 11:48 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

Krellshand, on 05 November 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

Well, because it is kind of boring to ignore a complete branch/aspect of a game and concentrate on the other.

Damage works fine, I have a ton of mechs and builds that work perfectly well and I seldom have a bad game (&lt;500dmg), BUT I think it should be more diversified -

Light Mechs thats SCOUT the other team, lighting them up and keep em tracked should earn you SOME credits and impact the game.

@Monkey Lover - can you sum up the ECM changes? I skipped through the PTS notes without niticing any significant ECM changes, but I might have missed them

I havnt played this test but the last test ecm only slowed locks. Everyone was lockable for ssrm/ lrms. Depending on the range,ecm,mech, and quirks would be the time it takes to lock on.

Ecm cover was also dropped to 90m.


In the end there will be a change to ecm just might be a few months. How much we don't know yet.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 05 November 2015 - 11:50 AM.

[Krellshand]

Well thats a nice change

Thank you a lot

[STEF_]

Fierostetz, on 05 November 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

Why not just build/take a better mech?

Why we must have only two viable weapon systems because the missile one sucks?

[Clit Beastwood]

Stefka Kerensky, on 05 November 2015 - 11:56 AM, said:

Why we must have only two viable weapon systems because the missile one sucks?

LRM's are the welfare of Mechwarrior - think about it.

1. LRM users want to sit back and make cbills from the efforts of others.
2. LRM users expect their teams to support them and ask nothing in return.
3. LRM users complain incessantly when they feel they aren't being adequately supported.
4. LRM users resent any implication that perhaps they get off their bum and work for themselves.

You're not supposed to take LRMs and just stay there, they're there to help you get on your feet to move onward to better, more sensible things. You don't see MotoGP racers fitting training wheels to their bikes.

Edited by Fierostetz, 05 November 2015 - 12:41 PM.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I played the PTS last ngiht, and encountered an enemy with ECM.
1. I had to stare at them for 3 seconds before they could be targeted (eating much lead and laser in the process).
2. I launched my missiles before being forced back behind cover, which immediately dropped lock (Target decay did not appear to work)
3. peek out and get shot up for 3 seconds, hide lose lock.

[Krellshand]

Fierostetz, on 05 November 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

LRM's are the welfare of Mechwarrior - think about it.

1. LRM users want to sit back and make cbills from the efforts of others.
2. LRM users expect their teams to support them and ask nothing in return.
3. LRM users complain incessantly when they feel they aren't being adequately supported.
4. LRM users resent any implication that perhaps they get off their bum and work for themselves.

You're not supposed to take LRMs and just stay there, they're there to help you get on your feet to move onward to better, more sensible things. You don't see MotoGP racers fitting training wheels to their bikes.

Hmm, you did read that my LRM Summoner sports a NARC and a BAP (plus 2 laserz! )

[Clit Beastwood]

Krellshand, on 05 November 2015 - 12:52 PM, said:

Hmm, you did read that my LRM Summoner sports a NARC and a BAP (plus 2 laserz! )

It's still suboptimal, just pull off the lrms narc and bap, install some direct fire weapons and you'll be good to go - that'll be more of a 9 to 5 monday to friday build

Edited by Fierostetz, 05 November 2015 - 01:15 PM.

[STEF_]

Fierostetz, on 05 November 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

LRM's are the welfare of Mechwarrior - think about it.

1. LRM users want to sit back and make cbills from the efforts of others.
2. LRM users expect their teams to support them and ask nothing in return.
3. LRM users complain incessantly when they feel they aren't being adequately supported.
4. LRM users resent any implication that perhaps they get off their bum and work for themselves.

You're not supposed to take LRMs and just stay there, they're there to help you get on your feet to move onward to better, more sensible things. You don't see MotoGP racers fitting training wheels to their bikes.

I agree with what you wrote.
I would like to have a viable and effective missile system, not only laser and ballistic.

[Clit Beastwood]

Stefka Kerensky, on 05 November 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:

I agree with what you wrote.
I would like to have a viable and effective missile system, not only laser and ballistic.

I think for them to be effective, they need an artillery role, and we'd need more than 12v12 for it to make sense.
Here's how I'd change LRMs

- Much faster for LOS use, lower arc (encouraging active engagement)
- Much higher arc for non LOS, and all missiles impact an "area of effect" - this "area" could be tightened by having someone spotting with tag or a narc (discouraging passive engagement)
- Higher penalties for boating (discouraging passive engagement)
- Low enough arc that they could still be effective when "dumb fired" (I know we can dumb fire now, but its not really that effective)

Even with all that, missile damage is going to be spread out and ineffective when compared to aim-able weapons.

[STEF_]

Fierostetz, on 05 November 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

I think for them to be effective, they need an artillery role, and we'd need more than 12v12 for it to make sense.
Here's how I'd change LRMs

- Much faster for LOS use, lower arc (encouraging active engagement)
- Much higher arc for non LOS, and all missiles impact an "area of effect" - this "area" could be tightened by having someone spotting with tag or a narc (discouraging passive engagement)
- Higher penalties for boating (discouraging passive engagement)
- Low enough arc that they could still be effective when "dumb fired" (I know we can dumb fire now, but its not really that effective)

Even with all that, missile damage is going to be spread out and ineffective when compared to aim-able weapons.

Yep, also more speed and less spread.
Speed above all: 160 metres per second is way too low.
It takes 4-5 seconds when the target is on 7-800 metres, and it's an eternity.

[Clit Beastwood]

Stefka Kerensky, on 05 November 2015 - 01:43 PM, said:

Yep, also more speed and less spread.
Speed above all: 160 metres per second is way too low.
It takes 4-5 seconds when the target is on 7-800 metres, and it's an eternity.

but thats fine for the level of accuracy currently available with non LOS, if it was faster it would encourage more LRM boater welfare recipients. There has to be a benefit to actively engaging heck,slow non LOS missiles down even more, if you aren't playing an active role while running lrms i couldn't care less, but if you're moving with the team and sharing damage both inbound AND outbound, then speed 'em up!

[JigglyMoobs]

There's a pretty simple solution to this: make ppc hits disable all ecm effects on a mech for x seconds regardless of whether that mech has the ecm. also put a bonus on that mech for missile lock on.

then as long as you take a ppc you won't have to worry too much about ecm.

[Nacho Cat]

Fierostetz, on 05 November 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

It's still suboptimal, just pull off the lrms narc and bap, install some direct fire weapons and you'll be good to go - that'll be more of a 9 to 5 monday to friday build

moar meta, pew pew!!

I like playing lrms, but haven't done so recently. IMO lrms are not viable right now, there are far too many counters. When they were/are viable, it adds another nice dimension (yes, that's my subjective opinion) to the game because I don't just sit back and rely on the efforts of others, or *insert stereotyped and fallacious lrm hate ad nauseam here*

[Ragnahawk]

Krellshand, on 05 November 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

Well, because it is kind of boring to ignore a complete branch/aspect of a game and concentrate on the other.

Damage works fine, I have a ton of mechs and builds that work perfectly well and I seldom have a bad game (<500dmg), BUT I think it should be more diversified -

Light Mechs thats SCOUT the other team, lighting them up and keep em tracked should earn you SOME credits and impact the game.

@Monkey Lover - can you sum up the ECM changes? I skipped through the PTS notes without niticing any significant ECM changes, but I might have missed them

That doesn't sound like you feel ECM needs to be changed seriously.