42 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I for one, welcome our Atlas overlords.

They really are powerful, also when brawling a mech with structure quirks just don't even fire at the rear if the enemy uses it to shield, just wait and hit them in the front CT again.

Edited by Dakota1000, 05 November 2015 - 09:27 PM.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 05 November 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

Easy fix for that: "health='50'

Bam, AC20 can take some hits.



I think I also won't link this into the PTS feedback...let's keep this "Feature". Let's see if PGI actually visits the most traffic'd part of the Forum and discover it themselves.

It kinda needs to be reported as feedback.

It's hard to tell whether it was working as intended™ or something (that our balance overlord) totally didn't notice (and I like betting on the latter).

The discussion is important though.. because it will impact us if this gets through, and gets whined about later.

[Mcgral18]

Deathlike, on 05 November 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

It kinda needs to be reported as feedback.

It's hard to tell whether it was working as intended™ or something (that our balance overlord) totally didn't notice (and I like betting on the latter).

The discussion is important though.. because it will impact us if this gets through, and gets whined about later.

I guess...although Reddit did grace us with a Wonderful comment:

Ghost Torsos.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Mcgral18, on 05 November 2015 - 09:30 PM, said:

I guess...although Reddit did grace us with a Wonderful comment:

Ghost Torsos.

As if our Spooky Scary Skeleton Atlases weren't spooky enough. Loving this Halloween PTS update.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 05 November 2015 - 09:30 PM, said:

I guess...although Reddit did grace us with a Wonderful comment:

Ghost Torsos.

I prefer "Ghost Armor", but close enough.

[Revis Volek]

Mcgral18, on 05 November 2015 - 08:56 PM, said:

The reality is, they only gain 27 armour on the front of either ST. So, they will still lose the 18HP AC20 in very little time.

I was going to say something about this...

You can buff the Fatlas all you want but its just going to be a mech with no weapons since the 20 will be gone long before the 2 set of ST's wanna go.

18 hp for the gun 15000 hp for the mech.....

Maybe if I had the ability to do some kung fu with my atlas after i lost my weapons....but no Collisions and my arms are stuck at my waist like a mannequin.

Deathlike, on 05 November 2015 - 09:46 PM, said:

I prefer "Ghost Armor", but close enough.

lol!


"...so it was written, on the 3rd PTS Server, Paul did come down from the mighty MWO Heavens with an offering."

"I give thine Atlas Ghost Armor!" he shouted...

"No go forth and purge this world of Clams."

Edited by DarthRevis, 05 November 2015 - 10:00 PM.

[Xetelian]

AS7 and other innersphere mechs need armor and structure or they need hardpoint inflation.

Either make the AS7, AWS, HGN, VTR, BLR tanky or give them more hard points, I'm not opposed to doing both.

The thing is, my DWF can carry 50 tons of weapons without endo and without ferro while my AS7 cannot option for an XL and expect to carry an AC20. My AWS is broad as a barn and with an XL it still doesn't carry the firepower of a Gargle.

GAR-A

PRETTY BABY

Either the Pretty baby needs 6 more hard points or it needs enough armor to deliver the damage that a GAR can accomplish. Then we can worry about XL deaths, but after we beef of the poorer of the innersphere assaults, when a GAR can whip your ass you know you're in for a bad time.

WHK-B

AWS-8R

85 tons beats 80 tons obviously but 5 tons isn't the only big difference, the WHK has more energy points and goes faster because the AWS has a smaller engine limit. So either make the left arm of the AWS useful with an energy point or two or give the AWS enough armor and structure to not be damned if they take an XL.

These mechs clearly need something to keep them from being so vastly out classed.

Edited by Xetelian, 05 November 2015 - 10:17 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Xetelian, on 05 November 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

AS7 and other innersphere mechs need armor and structure or they need hardpoint inflation.

Either make the AS7, AWS, HGN, VTR, BLR tanky or give them more hard points, I'm not opposed to doing both.

The thing is, my DWF can carry 50 tons of weapons without endo and without ferro while my AS7 cannot option for an XL and expect to carry an AC20. My AWS is broad as a barn and with an XL it still doesn't carry the firepower of a Gargle.

GAR-A

PRETTY BABY

Either the Pretty baby needs 6 more hard points or it needs enough armor to deliver the damage that a GAR can accomplish. Then we can worry about XL deaths, but after we beef of the poorer of the innersphere assaults, when a GAR can whip your ass you know you're in for a bad time.

WHK-B

AWS-8R

85 tons beats 80 tons obviously but 5 tons isn't the only big difference, the WHK has more energy points and goes faster because the AWS has a smaller engine limit. So either make the left arm of the AWS useful with an energy point or two or give the AWS enough armor and structure to not be damned if they take an XL.

These mechs clearly need something to keep them from being so vastly out classed.

That gargoyle is not a sustainable build...there is not way you will do anything with that mech. Its way too hot.

Maybe try to make some build that are on par with heat and firepower?\

You put 2 lpl and med in the aws and them cram 7 lasers on the garg and wonder why the one does more dmg then the other? You have Missle hardpoints...use them. The AWS is not a gargoyle or a WHK no matter how much you want it to be. Its also not an Omni mech and doesnt get the benefit of Omni and and an all laser loadout.


Really dude, cherry picked builds (and bad ones at that) dont make your story any better. Also the AWS needs a lot more then just some hardpoints. Like maybe a rescale?

[Khobai]

Quote

Ignoring lore for a moment.. most good pilots won't allow you to glance at their back (assuming that they aren't occupied). Bad pilots get backraged pretty easily as they don't even turn to see while their paperdoll is telling them their back is being violated.

that might have been the case before

but PTR massively nerfs assault agility

[Wintersdark]

DarthRevis, on 05 November 2015 - 09:56 PM, said:

I was going to say something about this...

You can buff the Fatlas all you want but its just going to be a mech with no weapons since the 20 will be gone long before the 2 set of ST's wanna go.

18 hp for the gun 15000 hp for the mech.....

Maybe if I had the ability to do some kung fu with my atlas after i lost my weapons....but no Collisions and my arms are stuck at my waist like a mannequin.

lol!

"...so it was written, on the 3rd PTS Server, Paul did come down from the mighty MWO Heavens with an offering."

"I give thine Atlas Ghost Armor!" he shouted...

"No go forth and purge this world of Clams."

Sure, if you focus on the ST, you'll take out the AC20.

But here's what happens in practice. You take out the ac20. Meanwhile, 2LL and srm18 are pounding on you, and that Atlas can still take HUNDREDS of damage. He can rotate fully, use his rear armour to tank too.

My DWF pushes 100+ PTS per alpha, and was losing to a pretty standard fatlas K over and over.

The armour and structure buffs are HUGE. While armour >> structure, structure keeps arm weapons firing, and you need vast, vast amounts of damage to bring an as7 down now.

Khobai, on 05 November 2015 - 11:22 PM, said:

that might have been the case before

but PTR massively nerfs assault agility

yup. On live, I can reliably hit even the fastest lights in my DWF. No problem at all. Probably more light kills than all the other classes combined.

On the PTS, locusts **** me up. All the tricks don't work, simply not manoeuvrable enough. A fast light with a competent pilot will kill me almost every time 1v1.

300 engined 100t assaults (and similar movement profile assaults) take a HARD hit on the PTS.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Wintersdark, on 05 November 2015 - 11:25 PM, said:

My DWF pushes 100+ PTS per alpha, and was losing to a pretty standard fatlas K over and over.

My build my have been standard, but our bond was special.

[Juodas Varnas]

I still feel this is the wrong way to go about balancing things.

They NEED to balance the tech-bases first and foremost. They have to make Clan and IS tech both (if not equal) at least balanced. Then they need to make all of the weapons to be worth using.
Currently, there are so many weapons that are basically useless when compared to the "meta" lasers and large ballistics. Fix the SRMs. Fix the LRMs. Fix the bloody Machine guns and Flamers.
Mechs should not need quirks to be competetive. Quirks should be there to add a bit of flavour and individuality instead of being a lazy, frustrating bandaids to make some mechs arbitrarily better than others!

[Deathlike]

Khobai, on 05 November 2015 - 11:22 PM, said:

that might have been the case before

but PTR massively nerfs assault agility

Perhaps, but I think the teamplay @ higher levels tend to be different. I think there will be more people covering each other... probably do more putting their backs to each other.

At lower levels, it'll be a bit easier to nail the backs of people.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

more armor...

[One Medic Army]

FupDup, on 05 November 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

BUT IT'S TOTALLY OKAY BECAUSE WEAPONS ARE EVIL AND CAN NEVER BE ALTERED IN PERFORMANCE BUT ARMOR IS RIGHTEOUS AND TOTALLY FAIR-GAME.

Can you imagine the crying and tears if the Dire and Atlas had the same number of hard points, and the clan weapons were balanced against IS for the same tonnage and slots?

[pwnface]

Deathlike, on 06 November 2015 - 01:10 AM, said:

Perhaps, but I think the teamplay @ higher levels tend to be different. I think there will be more people covering each other... probably do more putting their backs to each other.

At lower levels, it'll be a bit easier to nail the backs of people.

Deathlike I think you are putting too much faith into "ideal situations" where people can reliably cover each others backs all the time against enemy light mechs. Nerfing the agility on assaults will make them laughably easy to kill by light mechs that get a good flank. Even with the current agility DWF and Atlas have a pretty hard time dealing with a good light mech on their back. Slower turning and twisting? They won't stand a chance.

[Deathlike]

pwnface, on 06 November 2015 - 02:57 AM, said:

Deathlike I think you are putting too much faith into "ideal situations" where people can reliably cover each others backs all the time against enemy light mechs. Nerfing the agility on assaults will make them laughably easy to kill by light mechs that get a good flank. Even with the current agility DWF and Atlas have a pretty hard time dealing with a good light mech on their back. Slower turning and twisting? They won't stand a chance.

When you're running an Assault... you have to be rather calculating. I'm not saying they won't be vulnerable depending on the situation, but I think it's doable to an extent.

That and MASC on the Executioner may be a "fix"... while the usage is short, but that is supremely incredible given the impending nerf.

[zeves]

isnt this what we have been asking for for 2 years now? to make the atlas a giant bullet sponge from hell,
i aprove of this if nothing more than to see more atlases ingame, and might even be tempted to un mothball mine once in a while.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

zeves, on 06 November 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

isnt this what we have been asking for for 2 years now?

That's exactly what I've been saying about the majority of the PTS changes...

Edited by Dakota1000, 06 November 2015 - 03:09 PM.

[Elizander]

IS technology is so primitive compared to clans that it's literally just huge slabs of metal welded onto an engine. That explains the toughness :3