4 replies to this topic

[East Indy]

It's rare that any of us plays against Inner Sphere 'Mechs in isolation. These days, I see mostly Clan laser meta. So while it's not surprising that players identify "lasers" as the problem, I don't think that Inner Sphere lasers would be a first choice if Clan laser power were reduced.

PGI has been moving in the right direction with max range changes, but true to form, the solution is more complicated than it could be -- and with select tweaks in PTS 3, inconsistent. And thus confusing.

So what if:

1. All ER laser overall ranges are reduced to 120% of standard IS lasers. Normal optimal-max multiplier.
2. Clan laser durations are shortened accordingly.
3. Clan large laser heat scale threshold increased to 3.
4. Clan pulse laser ranges are reduced to match IS pulse lasers.
5. Clan lasers remain hotter and more destructive than IS lasers.

This:

1. Accomplishes the same positive effort on the PTS in a uniform and easily understood way.
2. Removes a large aspect of meta double-up (C ER ML + C LPL).
3. Lessens the "lightsaber" effect of long fire durations.
4. Doesn't require any additional game mechanics.

Table below. (If a number looks out of place, it's probably a typo.)

Name	Damage	Heat	Optimal Range	Max Range	Duration
C ER Large Laser	11	10	540	1080	1.25
IS ER Large Laser	9	8	540	1080	1.25
IS Large Laser	9	7	450	900	1.0
C ER Medium Laser	7	6	324	648	1.0
IS Medium Laser	5	4	270	540	0.9
C ER Small Laser	5	3	162	324	1.0
IS Small Laser	3	2	135	270	0.75
C Large Pulse Laser	13	10	365	730	0.85
IS Large Pulse Laser	11	7	365	730	0.67
C Medium Pulse Laser	8	6	220	440	0.80
IS Medium Pulse Laser	6	4	220	440	0.60
C Small Pulse Laser	6	3	110	220	0.75
IS Small Pulse Laser	4	2	110	220	0.50

[John1352]

I think you are on the right track by nerfing the base values instead of adding another layer of complexity. I would prefer to see clan lasers retain more range, but keep their longer durations. The tech should be different, but balanced.

For example:
C-ERML 350-360m range, 1.12 duration.
C-MPL 270-300m range, 0.85 duration.

Edited by John1352, 07 November 2015 - 02:07 PM.

[keith]

not complex enough, we can't have it as balance.....

[Jack Shayu Walker]

IS smalls are terribad atm so no. 200m is a good range for ER smalls and IS smalls need to be brought UP so that the properly match the clan values.

[BearFlag]

In other threads I've argued against those arbitrary PTS changes to the basic damage table. The damage table has been sacrosanct and "law" forever even if the "optimum" range is nonsensical. At least it has been constant. I've also said that there are many other parameters that can be tweaked to achieve the goal without invoking crazy and counter-intuitive schemes.

This approach is a good step in that direction. Well done...

but...

it looks like the problem of pin-pointing full damage out to "optimal" range remains. So either pinpoint hitting is a problem or "optimal" range is - or a little of both.

Pinpoint has been recognized as a problem for four years. Many are behind the idea of Cone of Fire. And indeed it is a very, very flexible mechanic that can be arranged lots of ways to spread damage without "nerfing aim" too much. But a lot of players vehemently oppose any kind of "skill penalty."

Up until recently, I would never have considered changing the basic damage table. But PGI put it on variables list with the clan nerf and lock change and opened a can of worms in the process. There have been proposals for a sawtooth or parabola with peak damage at optimal and declining damage to either side. Another was a shifted, clipped parabola starting at, say, half damage, then climbing to peak damage at optimal before declining to zero at max. These ideas would actually work to reduce pinpoint damage, kinda. The problems are that there's an odd max pinpoint damage at optimal range and a complicated, not people/game friendly curve.

In the context of that debate, I suggested we just bite the bullet and eliminate optimal range altogether since it didn't make sense in the first place. Use a strict, straight-line, linear decay of damage across range. This would be a hard nerf to all lasers across all ranges. They would still be lethal at close range but would do only half damage at half (formerly optimal) range. Indeed this nerf is so potent it might be necessary to re-buff - preferably using the sane methods outlined above.

It might be easier to start low and re-buff than starting from current and doing a wack-a-mole of this prominent problem then that prominent problem. Isn't the PTS for testing? Let's test MANY ideas and see how they pan out.

Edited by BearFlag, 08 November 2015 - 11:21 PM.