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Overall Feedback To Re-Balance Phase 3

Balance Gameplay

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#1 Sereglach

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 09:09 PM

Things have been moving in a great direction, overall. There are still things that need tweaking/changing, but progress is being made. Here is my overall feedback to the general changes of Re-Balance PTS Phase 3.

Targeting Reticle and Hit-Indicator
Spoiler


Targeting Profiles/TAR attribute
Spoiler


Targeting Laser Range Modifiers
Spoiler


Weapon Balance Changes
Spoiler


Heat Sink Changes
Spoiler


Skill Tree Changes
Spoiler


Quirks So Far
Spoiler


So far there have been many good things to come out of these PTS Phases, and it's moving in the right direction at a reasonable pace. Please keep up the good work.

Thank you, PGI, for undertaking this HUGE (but extremely necessary) endeavor of rebalancing the game. Things like super-quirked mechs and non-functional weapons (please fix my poor flamers for the rebalance) are really killing the fun for me. I love MWO and want to see it be a great success for the Battletech/MechWarrior IP. Thank you, as well, for taking player feedback into consideration for these balance changes.

#2 Sergeant Random

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 11:07 PM

*Targeting Reticle/Hit Indicator
Nice observation about the wide arm shots. I agree that the color flash is a good solution as your eyes are likely not focused at the center reticle. I also agree that requiring targetting for confirmation is good (I think it adds tension/excitement).

*Targeting Profiles/TAR Attribute
I love this system! In fact I have this ninja thread http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1 . I hope they add Active/Passive radar to the mix! (Where you have more radar range and are more vulnerable to detection in Active mode.) (I hope their network engineers wouldn't object.)

*Targeting Laser Range Modifiers
Modifying the HUD to include both optimal and maximum ranges is an interesting idea. I wonder if there is enough screen space.
Also interesting is that "focus targetting" might become a thing--info-sharing making laser teamwork more effective (Strange, spotters for lasers...)

*Weapon Balance Changes
OP seems to suggest that EACH laser type (standard, pulse and ER) should have one max range per type (between IS and Clan?). I dont think it would make the tech bases feel different enough from each other.

*Heat Sink Changes
It is going to take a lot of homework to compare DPS/ton, Dissipation/ton and all sorts of ratios to compare different chassis. It makes me wish that PGI would publish what assumptions, equations and systems they are using to "balance" the fact that mechs should be competitive individually (without violating their cbill price/value?).

*Skill Tree Changes
I will be sad to see my masteries halved but agree that this may be good for the New Player Experience to be less daunting. (Maybe 3/4 values instead of 1/2? So there will be motivation to master chassis.) Point moot if they come up with a better skill tree.

*Quirks
Hate to see weapon quirks disappear completely. Hope they retain general ballistic/energy/missile quirks instead of the specific weapon quirks...

______
All in all an exciting time to be watching MWO evolve.

Maybe they will make a sensor mini-game that you have to play... (could be too extreme though)

Edited by Sergeant Random, 05 November 2015 - 12:37 AM.


#3 Sereglach

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 09:09 AM

View PostSergeant Random, on 04 November 2015 - 11:07 PM, said:

*Targeting Reticle/Hit Indicator
Nice observation about the wide arm shots. I agree that the color flash is a good solution as your eyes are likely not focused at the center reticle. I also agree that requiring targetting for confirmation is good (I think it adds tension/excitement).

Yeah, when I saw the physical indicator for the first time I wondered where it was "attached". When I realized it was attached at the torso reticle I wondered how easy it was to see for wide shots. To me, that's particularly important for mechs like the Centurion, Griffon, Wolverine, and Panther, that have an important weapon arm that you really want to protect.

View PostSergeant Random, on 04 November 2015 - 11:07 PM, said:

*Targeting Profiles/TAR Attribute
I love this system! In fact I have this ninja thread http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1 . I hope they add Active/Passive radar to the mix! (Where you have more radar range and are more vulnerable to detection in Active mode.) (I hope their network engineers wouldn't object.)

The Active/Passive radar is a concept that has been batted around a lot. Even the devs liked the concept. However, I wouldn't be surprised if it became too much to engineer for the game.

View PostSergeant Random, on 04 November 2015 - 11:07 PM, said:

*Targeting Laser Range Modifiers
Modifying the HUD to include both optimal and maximum ranges is an interesting idea. I wonder if there is enough screen space.
Also interesting is that "focus targetting" might become a thing--info-sharing making laser teamwork more effective (Strange, spotters for lasers...)

There's plenty of screen space for it on the weapons portion of the HUD. Also, the "spotters for lasers" concept isn't that strange, because for MWO all mechs basically already have built in C3 Computer capabilities (honestly something that I think is necessary for this game . . . otherwise there'd be no target info sharing), which makes targeting and hitting easier for groups that are linked together. For MWO, we're already linked all the time.

Regardless, Information Warfare NEEDS to affect firepower, across the board, in some way to be truly meaningful for the game as a whole. It already does this to some degree for all other weapon systems (as outlined in the OP), however it needs something for lasers, too. While the current solution might not be perfect in its current iteration, it has solid potential and can be built upon.

View PostSergeant Random, on 04 November 2015 - 11:07 PM, said:

*Weapon Balance Changes
OP seems to suggest that EACH laser type (standard, pulse and ER) should have one max range per type (between IS and Clan?). I dont think it would make the tech bases feel different enough from each other.

I think it'll work just fine with all the other facets of weapons that can be tuned to provide differentiation. It also provides consistency that any player will be able to quickly grab onto and keep in memory. If an ERLL has a max range of 1300m, regardless of faction, then that is a consistent thing that players can latch onto and know whenever they see ERLL pop up on someone's Target Info. Then, the faction type (Clan or IS) determines all the nuances of that weapon system including optimal ranges, duration, heat, and damage.

Taking the ERLL example a bit further, here's an example of what I'm talking about (numbers strictly for example purposes):
IS ERLL - Max Range 1300m, Base Optimal Range 600m, Duration 1.2 seconds, Heat 9, Damage 8
Clan ERLL - Max Range 1300m, Base Optimal Range 900m, Duration 1.5 seconds, Heat 11, Damage 10

I believe that would provide a highly intuitive system that promotes overall balance while still providing significant distinctness between weapon systems.

View PostSergeant Random, on 04 November 2015 - 11:07 PM, said:

*Heat Sink Changes
It is going to take a lot of homework to compare DPS/ton, Dissipation/ton and all sorts of ratios to compare different chassis. It makes me wish that PGI would publish what assumptions, equations and systems they are using to "balance" the fact that mechs should be competitive individually (without violating their cbill price/value?).

The Heat Scale and heat sink functionality is going to be one of the hardest facets for PGI to balance out in this Rebalancing Overhaul. However, I think they're at least heading the input and feedback of the players; and they're moving things in a solid direction. They really just need to stop holding back and push the rest of the way to a lower cap/higher dissipation system.

View PostSergeant Random, on 04 November 2015 - 11:07 PM, said:

*Skill Tree Changes
I will be sad to see my masteries halved but agree that this may be good for the New Player Experience to be less daunting. (Maybe 3/4 values instead of 1/2? So there will be motivation to master chassis.) Point moot if they come up with a better skill tree.

Honestly this is one where I think our opinions are just going to differ a bit. The motivation to master a chassis should be to gain the combat edge that the skills provide, instead of having the mech perform like a completely different machine.

Leaving some of those skills at even half the values they were at before (when mastered) still would provide a mech with things like 25% deceleration, 22.5% acceleration, and 10% higher heat cap/dissipation (akin to a minimum of 3 more heat sinks on a mech).

They need to be nerfed into the ground. Not just for the new player experience, but also so that mechs feel like the mechs they're meant to be, even while mastered. Again, mastery skills should be a combat edge, not a whole different mech. Just look at some of the videos out there on even the recent Wolfhound WLF-1 pre and post mastery . . . it's insane and absurd the difference it makes.

Bottom Line: A mech shouldn't need to be mastered just to be competitive.

View PostSergeant Random, on 04 November 2015 - 11:07 PM, said:

*Quirks
Hate to see weapon quirks disappear completely. Hope they retain general ballistic/energy/missile quirks instead of the specific weapon quirks...

Weapon quirks aren't going to be completely gone. They've stated that the some mechs will be seeing the occasional small generic quirk to provide differentiation and flavor among chassis, as well as enhance balance. Only the most desperate of mechs will be seeing more then one quirk (probably mechs like the Awesome and Dragon) . . . but they're going to still be small quirks. However, any weapon quirks that do return have already been stated that they'll be generic quirks, so that mechs aren't pigeon-holed into any sort of specific build.

I think what they're trying to do (which is actually a prudent and wise move) is to try to push the balance as close as possible, first, without touching weapon quirks. Then, when they're getting things into a pretty good place, they'll turn around and start looking at the worst outliers to try and bring them up with the much smaller and generic weapon quirks.

#4 Dhread Danite

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 10:38 AM

If you want to rebalance then do something about the light mechs. As it is now it is almost impossible to shoot a light mech with ecm going 150. The only thing that you can do damage with is missiles and now you want to decrease lock on time and targeting . I doubt that the light mechs will be able to be killed before they kill at least 4 enemy mechs with your rebalance. Lights are op as it is and with your proposed changes they will rule the battlefield.

#5 Sereglach

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 12:50 PM

View PostDhread Danite, on 05 November 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

If you want to rebalance then do something about the light mechs. As it is now it is almost impossible to shoot a light mech with ecm going 150. The only thing that you can do damage with is missiles and now you want to decrease lock on time and targeting . I doubt that the light mechs will be able to be killed before they kill at least 4 enemy mechs with your rebalance. Lights are op as it is and with your proposed changes they will rule the battlefield.

Have you played the recent PTS? Do you play live? Not to be rude, but you have some horribly misplaced beliefs.

If lights were so OP they wouldn't be the lowest utilized weight class on the servers . . . not by a longshot. This is also coming from someone (me) who is a dedicated light pilot. Even with the Arctic Cheetah/Wolfhound craze when the c-bill release (ACH) and preorder release (WLF) both happened at the same time, the queues are already returning to "normal", with people completing their mastery grinds. The light queue is rapidly diminishing back to single-digit/low-double-digit levels. Lights are by no means OP. They're dangerous in the hands of a skilled pilot . . . but so is any other mech.

Lets take a quick look at the standings of lights on both Live and PTS Servers.

LIVE SERVERS:
As it stands lights get slaughtered on the live servers because PPFLD and High Alphas can instantly core them out through nearly any torso. Most armor/structure quirks on light mechs on the live servers revolve around the legs and arms, not their torso components. Assaults are nimble enough on live to track a light mech running 170kph (ECM or not) and put damage on target with ease. Streak Boats (particularly Streakcrows or Streak-Dogs) can obliterate a light in a scant few volleys. The Arctic Cheetah might have some mild hit-box issues, but it's far from invincible or OP . . . it's just currently one of the most powerful lights out there . . . however it still dies easily enough (I kill them in a Wolfhound or Firestarter more often then they kill me).

PTS SERVERS:
The skill tree nerfs hit everyone equally, so even lights are nowhere near as zippy as they currently are on live servers. Also, ECM no longer has the magic bubble of no targeting; and it no longer prevents any missile locks. AMS will be key to survival of light mechs (especially against Streak Boats), regardless of any targeting delays . . . that's more precious tonnage the light mech will need to pull away from weapons and heatsinks. On top of it, while there might be a mild -no longer than 1 second- targeting delay, because of their small profiles, this will still encourage scouts to operate at long ranges and also encourage strikers to operate in guerilla tactics that leave them exposed for minimal time. That really doesn't change they way they currently act on live servers, it merely accentuates their role even further, and promotes greater role warfare through their strengths and weaknesses. PTS changes might help them survive more, but it in no way improves their killing power or makes them OP.

#6 oO JimPansen Oo

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 01:27 PM

Tested SRMs with my (dusted) Golden Boy using this build:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...33b216070d0d1ce

In my opinion this is what SRMs should feel like! It was really funny to play the GB again but it ran pretty hot (thats why I changed 3 MPLas against 3 ML and 3 additional DHS)


AND: PLEASE PGI!!!

Implement a 4on4 mode!

To me its more fun to play solo on PTS than on LiveServer atm.
Never experianced that kind of communcation and teamplay on live 12on12.

Will go on....

#7 50 50

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 05:52 PM

Nice write up there Sereglach.
You would think that with these new attributes being added to the mechs, that additional features such as the active/passive radar could then be added.
Effectively it would be a toggle on/off that changes the TAR value.
While I didn't get a good feel (at all) for the TAR, I did wonder if it may be a figure that could be affected by the engine sizes and types as an additional consideration.
Otherwise, the sensor ranges and target retention differences were certainly noticeable.
I am liking this extra level of depth for the mechs.

#8 Sereglach

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 07:44 PM

View Post50 50, on 05 November 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

Nice write up there Sereglach.
You would think that with these new attributes being added to the mechs, that additional features such as the active/passive radar could then be added.
Effectively it would be a toggle on/off that changes the TAR value.

There are several things to think about with Active/Passive radar that make it a heap of a lot tougher to implement in comparison to just the TAR:

1. New Key Binding Required - The Default Key Binding graphic accessed via F1 (default) would need to be updated. Depending on what they assign it to, it could really mess with a lot of people's bindings and play-styles. Oh, and there's the extra front-end work in just getting it added to the options and making it customizable.

2. New UI Element Needed - Where would this go, how would it read/function, and how intuitive is it? These things are virtually a PTS focus group in and of themselves. Just look at the havoc that's being played on people, right now, with the physical hit indicator added to the UI as opposed to the color change.

3. Academy Impacts - Sensors become a whole new creature that new players need to learn about (EDIT: beyond what they can pick up from just looking at the front end mech information). This requires not only a new Field Manual entry for the UI, but also an update to the default bindings graphic (already mentioned). On top of that, new players would need training to be able to handle and understand this whole concept, outside of just a basic sensor number. That means we'd need to see a whole new section added to the academy just to make this understandable for players to figure out.

Now, these things don't mean it'll never happen, it just means that it'll take a great deal of time and effort to accomplish. However, if they're willing to eventually overhaul the skill trees and make them individualized for mechs -and they're willing to overhaul things like ECM (FINALLY!)- then I don't see this concept as being entirely out of the question. I sadly just don't see it happening at this time.

Personally, I think the concept is a great one and I'd love to see it implemented. Having Passive Sensors double your TAR value, while halving your sensor range, is a great and simple way to make it effective.

View Post50 50, on 05 November 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

While I didn't get a good feel (at all) for the TAR, I did wonder if it may be a figure that could be affected by the engine sizes and types as an additional consideration.
Otherwise, the sensor ranges and target retention differences were certainly noticeable.
I am liking this extra level of depth for the mechs.

TAR is an interesting little value. It basically says, from what I experienced, "this is how small my profile is, so it takes X amount in extra time (in milliseconds) for an enemy sensor to spot me."

This is amazing for small mechs to operate in roles such as scouting. Even without the old magic box of ECM, the scout can get glimpses of the enemy without risking himself appearing on enemy radar. At the long ranges these scouts can scan at, where there's already now a targeting delay (which will be quirked on a mech by mech basis, as we saw in Phase 1) that job gets even easier.

Tack on the fact that TAG range is now based on the max range of your sensors, and certain mechs could become premier spotters (or have the ability to be as such . . . I truly expect the Raven 3L to have amazing sensors and little in the way of other quirks once the final rebalance rolls out, for example).

I agree that this extra level of depth is awesome. I think they're making great progress toward making this rebalance happen, and be successful (maybe not picture perfect . . . but balance never is). I just hope they take the right steps in the right directions to make it all come together beautifully. They're actually getting pretty close, already, in a number of fields.

Edited by Sereglach, 05 November 2015 - 08:07 PM.


#9 Sable

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 08:11 PM

i disagree with the skill tree changes but only somewhat. I'm glad they didn't change speedtweak. Some mechs are just too slow without it. I personally felt some of the nerfs were too harsh. Halving them would be better but some got a 75% nerf.

#10 Sereglach

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 08:11 PM

View Postjimpansen182, on 05 November 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

Tested SRMs with my (dusted) Golden Boy using this build:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...33b216070d0d1ce

In my opinion this is what SRMs should feel like! It was really funny to play the GB again but it ran pretty hot (thats why I changed 3 MPLas against 3 ML and 3 additional DHS)

The changes to SRMs are most assuredly a nice improvement. Maybe not perfect, but a huge improvement.

Also, expect mechs to run hotter post Re-Balance, as they should. One thing PGI really needs to do is get people away from the high-alpha/large-group-fire gameplay (I can't even call it meta, because even the trial mechs tend to espouse it). If they can accomplish that then it'll go a long way towards increasing TTK/TTL and making the gameplay better, overall.

#11 Sereglach

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 08:20 PM

View PostSable, on 05 November 2015 - 08:11 PM, said:

i disagree with the skill tree changes but only somewhat. I'm glad they didn't change speedtweak. Some mechs are just too slow without it. I personally felt some of the nerfs were too harsh. Halving them would be better but some got a 75% nerf.

I have to strongly disagree with you, there. Speed Tweak needs to die. Slow mechs should be slow, and fast mechs should be fast. There should not be a magic skill that grants you the equivalent of 3-4 engine sizes in mech performance. That's a fair amount of tonnage (especially for lights) and hundreds of thousands (if not millions in the case of an XL) in free engine performance.

I think the ones that were dropped were dropped down to a good level, especially since the "Elite Doubling" is still in the game. Mastery skills should be a minor combat edge for your mech, not allow it to perform like a vastly different machine (basically with equivalent agility of a mech one weight class lighter).

Even cutting some of the skills only in half would still leave us with 22.5% acceleration, 25% deceleration, 20% arm movement, and 10% twist speed boosts. Those numbers are just too big. Again, that's not a combat edge . . . that's a completely different mech.

The old skills were too much and it's a good thing, for everyone, that they're finally being reined-in.

#12 Sable

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 09:24 PM

I just get the impression you favor light mechs as they aren't as effected by the skill tree as larger mechs.

#13 Sereglach

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 07:20 AM

View PostSable, on 05 November 2015 - 09:24 PM, said:

I just get the impression you favor light mechs as they aren't as effected by the skill tree as larger mechs.

I've always favored light mechs because I like light mechs. My favorite mechs for over 20 years have all been light mechs. My favorite mech of all time has always been the Firestarter (which I was overjoyed when it came to MWO) . . . it was also the first mech I ever got to use in a TTRPG Campaign, because I'm a pyro, the GM knew it, and he gave me my dream mech right off the bat.

The performance of the skill tree has nothing to do with why I like light mechs.

Also, the skill trees affect all mechs equally. If you don't believe that, then maybe you should look at the videos currently up in -I believe- "Guides and Strategies" about the Wolfhound WLF-1 with before and after mastery on the current Live Server mech skill tree. A completely different machine doesn't begin to describe the vast differences in performance.

On top of it, if it actually did affect light mechs the least, then people wouldn't complain just as much about grinding a light mech as any other mech. If anything, they're even more drastically affected because they depend so much upon that speed and agility to avoid weapons fire. Even on a more simple mathematical level, it's also so because they're % boosts, so speed tweak is nearly 15kph for some lights, and the % boosts to the agility facets exacerbate the larger base numbers of lights even more.

Again, more reasons why the skill tree nerfs were terribly needed and long overdue. Now they just need to replace Pinpoint with something logical and kill Speed Tweak.

#14 Kira Onime

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 08:06 AM

View PostSereglach, on 06 November 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

Also, the skill trees affect all mechs equally.



I wouldn't go there.

#15 Runebasher

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 08:26 AM

This whole Mech Re-Balance and Information Warfare ist just a big fail

#16 Sereglach

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 09:24 AM

View PostKira Onime, on 06 November 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

I wouldn't go there.

On a complete technical level, the skill trees do affect all mechs equally. They're % boosts, so everyone is getting the same %, no matter what. The numerical boost can be larger or smaller based on the size of engine, other quirks, etc., but those are only altered by the equipment of the mech and are not determined flatly by the quirk.

The quirk is not a fixed value, it is a fixed percent. If it were a fixed value, then the relative gain across chassis would vary wildly down the spectrum from light to assault. For example, if speed tweak provided 10kph instead of 10%, then one could easily argue that the boost is far more valuable to an assault mech than a light mech, because it's a larger % of the assault mech's overall speed, and it would not be subject to alteration by the internal components or quirks of the mech. On the other hand, as a % value, both the assault and light gain the same relative boost to their capabilities (regardless, Speed Tweak needs to die in a fire and never return, because it's the most egregious offender out there for providing a "super-quirk" like boost that should only be done by changes to the mechs internal components).

View PostRunebasher, on 06 November 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

This whole Mech Re-Balance and Information Warfare ist just a big fail

Not even remotely. Have you played the PTS? It's been having significant impacts and improvements on the gameplay as a whole, and it's not even complete, yet. Your comments and rhetoric remind me of the comments made, HERE.

Now, if you actually have something constructive to add to the conversation, then by all means please add it. If you have concepts for what you believe will achieve solid balance, then by all means start your own feedback thread and provide as detailed of feedback as possible. They are looking for community input, but you actually need to provide input and not just complain or nay-say for it to actually mean anything.

#17 Kira Onime

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 09:30 AM

View PostSereglach, on 06 November 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

On a complete technical level, the skill trees do affect all mechs equally. They're % boosts, so everyone is getting the same %, no matter what. The numerical boost can be larger or smaller based on the size of engine, other quirks, etc., but those are only altered by the equipment of the mech and are not determined flatly by the quirk.


Technical level sure, I can agree.
Just don't tell me a Mist Lynx got nerfed just as much as a Dire Wolf when you look at the bigger picture.

On the clan side, the heavier the mech, the harder these changes affected them.

#18 Sereglach

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 09:55 AM

View PostKira Onime, on 06 November 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

Technical level sure, I can agree.
Just don't tell me a Mist Lynx got nerfed just as much as a Dire Wolf when you look at the bigger picture.

On the clan side, the heavier the mech, the harder these changes affected them.

Which, frankly, returns the mechs to a state they should be in; and yes, everything did get nerfed equally. If you agree on the technical level, then by fiat you acknowledge that it's an equal nerf across the board.

The Mist Lynx is nowhere near as twitchy on PTS Servers as it is on Live Servers, but it's still an agile mech (I know, I tried it . . . I have nearly every variant of every light mech mastered, with few exceptions . . . and I tinkered around with a whole lot of them). However, the Mist Lynx is actually supposed to be a fast and nimble little mech. That is one of its strong suits. That is supposed to be the strong suit of lights in general.

On the other hand, mediums, heavies and assaults actually return to feeling like the weight class they're supposed to be:

- A light goes to feeling what a light mech should feel like, and they're not the complete twitch-shooter machines they currently are on Live Servers.

- A medium will still be able to track a light with no problems, and outmaneuver anything heavier, but they're not going to cut corners better than even a light mech can.

- A heavy is no longer able to waltz through urban environments at top speed with no problems.

- An assault is no longer able to track a 150+ kph light sprinting across its screen in close proximity and reliably put a high-alpha through it with no problem.

To say that these mechs cannot do these things on Live Servers is a lie. I have mastered, and play, numerous chassis from all weight classes.

I don't know if you're doing it intentionally or not. However, you're coming across with this air that lights are somehow OP, or will be made OP by these changes. They will help balance out lights, sure, but they're in no way OP (in fact, they need to fear things like streaks even more with their changes, and AMS will become nearly mandatory). Again, regard what I said earlier about lights. If lights were so strong and potentially OP, then why is the most popular weight class of choice heavy mechs? I didn't see that changing on test, either. Yes, people were cracking out all sorts of chassis to test, but I still saw more heavies than anything else.

#19 Kira Onime

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 10:12 AM

View PostSereglach, on 06 November 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

Which, frankly, returns the mechs to a state they should be in; and yes, everything did get nerfed equally. If you agree on the technical level, then by fiat you acknowledge that it's an equal nerf across the board.


Mechs that already had a bad torso turn before the nerfs are hurt more than those that had a good one.
A king crab has a pretty good torso turn even without skill compared to an executioner that has a very poor one.


Then again we don't have the PTS1 quirks that helped on this subject so we'll see.


View PostSereglach, on 06 November 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

However, you're coming across with this air that lights are somehow OP, or will be made OP by these changes.

Well then I'm doing something wrong 'cause that is far from what I think.
Only "OP" if you can't aim.

#20 Sereglach

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 10:39 AM

View PostKira Onime, on 06 November 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

Mechs that already had a bad torso turn before the nerfs are hurt more than those that had a good one.
A king crab has a pretty good torso turn even without skill compared to an executioner that has a very poor one.

Mechs strengths and weaknesses will start to become more apparent as this unfolds. I think it's going to do great things for choice and variety.

View PostKira Onime, on 06 November 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

Then again we don't have the PTS1 quirks that helped on this subject so we'll see.

Exactly, there's still a good ways left to go, and we need to see how everything unfolds by the end. That's why I'm being extremely reserved on my commentary about quirks so far. They're beginning to dabble at showing us concepts they have in store, but it's obvious that nothing is close to final, yet.

View PostKira Onime, on 06 November 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

Well then I'm doing something wrong 'cause that is far from what I think.
Only "OP" if you can't aim.

Yeah, I'll agree there, when someone actually takes the time to aim I die in my lights . . . quick. The high alpha meta on Live Servers certainly doesn't help any. All the agility in the world doesn't save you when the Live Server Skill Trees and hit-scan weapons allow anyone to successfully track and obliterate a light mech.

However, the big skill tree nerfs that happened will at least make it more difficult for the heavy and assault classes to track a light. They'll need to rely more on taking the time to line up shots or -heaven forbid- teamwork . . . by getting other lights or mediums come in to de-louse and take them out. Regardless, strategy will play a much bigger part in the game, as it should.





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