157 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

That's okay, Bish. Just make a Fallout mod that replaces all the raider helmets with Commando heads, then get another mod that runs the new slow-time V.A.T.S. permanently.

That'll hold ya until HBS is done!

[DaZur]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 November 2015 - 04:53 PM, said:

my other game doesn't come out til spring, 2017, though..................

My pretty Seahorse got pushed back to 2017!!!

Edited by DaZur, 10 November 2015 - 05:17 PM.

[cSand]

DaZur, on 10 November 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

Which one?

[MechWarrior3671771]

"I really want to add Russ to my PGI trophy case. I had a game with Lauren the other day but Almond Brown got her before I could."

I try to avoid doing that. I had Russ in my sights on Caustic a few weeks back, went after him of course.

Then I realized that probably EVERYONE does that to PGI staff. Let them play and experience what we experience without having to deal with headhunters. Besides, its good to see PGI tags in game, instead of smurf accounts - reassures players that staff is actually playtesting their product.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Also, the "if you don't like it, please leave" approach has already been tried, on CW and it failed miserably.

Do you want the public lobby to look like the CW lobby? Its a ghost town.

[pwnface]

Fenrisulvyn, on 10 November 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

Then I realized that probably EVERYONE does that to PGI staff. Let them play and experience what we experience without having to deal with headhunters. Besides, its good to see PGI tags in game, instead of smurf accounts - reassures players that staff is actually playtesting their product.

It's really easy to turn this into an advantage if you know you are being headhunted. People will make really terrible mistakes to desperately try to kill you. I jumped off the hill on Viridian Bog into 6+ enemies to kill Russ, somehow I survived though...

[L3mming2]

oldradagast, on 10 November 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:

Point to consider: people typically only complain repeatedly about something if they actually care about it. If they don't care, they may mutter a few choice words, flip the bird, and leave. So, the endless "whining" here is actually reflective of a population who does care about this game and is angry at the direction it is headed.

One can easily sweep valid complaints under the rug with strawman arguments and generic, groundless labels - such as "whining," but the reality is that there have been a good number of poor decisions made lately:
- Map voting is unneeded lunacy and removes content from the game, effectively
- Mode voting, even if needed in some form to speed up match-making, was implemented poorly
- As for the "great rebalancing" coming, a book could be written on what was on the PTS, for better or for worse, though an increasing number of players are - rightfully - angry that PGI refuses to tackle the game's main problem (long-range, perfect accuracy, high-damage alphas) and instead skirts around it with silly new rules or pretends it's not an issue at all.

On and on the list goes, but the key is that if people didn't care, these forums would be free of "whining," but the game would be long dead for lack of players.

so whats your idea to solve the long range perfect accuracy high damage alphas, thats so obvious and where everyone agrees upon its the right thing to do?

becaus, wile it might have been a convoluted and ridiculus mechanic, it did work on the pts, the usual gauss+laser vomit was not nearly as effective as it is on the life server...

Edited by L3mming2, 10 November 2015 - 05:14 PM.

[pwnface]

L3mming2, on 10 November 2015 - 05:10 PM, said:

so whats your idea to solve the long range perfect accuracy high damage alphas, thats so obvious and where everyone agrees upon its the right thing to do?

Not everyone agrees that it's a problem though. I think dialing back the damage slightly and buffing brawling would suffice.

[DaZur]

oldradagast, on 10 November 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

Another point to consider is just because somebody repeats facts - such as the sheer idiocy of "ghost range" and how it is a sloppy, illogical mechanic that the game does not need - loudly and often doesn't mean he is whining. Is it annoying? Perhaps - but it also annoying to have to repeat facts a billion times to get them through the heads of the people in charge.

Let's flip this premise...

So you infer that if I repeatedly spammed the forums with threads proclaiming PGI has been right all along, state it as a matter of fact and repeat it enough times to be annoying (A billion if I'm correct) that it's automatically inherits the status of being a valid and salient point?

Hell, If I'd known that I would have started grousing years ago...

I'm not about to sit hear and tell you PGIs ideas have all been golden, hell... I'm not even going to infer they were Playdough. I will however preface that It's effort to fix things that need fixing... I appreciate an effort, even one that fails miserably over doing nothing at all.

Problem is so many folks have an expectation of every idea to be golden and every suggestion uttered that is vetted as superior to any previous suggestion by the intelligentsia should be applied without hesitation.

Maybe some of those epiphanies would be taken seriously if they were not laced with contempt and derision?

Edited by DaZur, 10 November 2015 - 05:16 PM.

[Thorqemada]

Hm, i am playing Fallout 3 GotY bcs i got it on Steamsale a while ago and have not played it yet.
Still nowere near the Level i want to be in Elite - but i struggle with the Controls - to really have fun playing that i would need a HOTAS setup which i am still lacking.

If you develop a PvP game you need to understand that PvP-Players are your worst enemy!
That PvP-Players are their own worst enemy!
Tat Wolves follow Sheep and you have to nurture Sheep to have a big Population of Wolves and then exploit the hell out of the Wolves - bcs the Wolves need the Sheep while the Sheep do not need the Wolves - they have to come where the Sheep graze bcs Wolves DO NOT LIKE FIGHT Wolves - they LIKE TO FEAST on Sheep!!!

That is the truth of PvP!

Edited by Thorqemada, 10 November 2015 - 05:18 PM.

[pwnface]

Thorqemada, on 10 November 2015 - 05:17 PM, said:

Hm, i am playing Fallout 3 GotY bcs i got it on Steamsale a while ago and have not played it yet.
Still nowere near the Level i want to be in Elite - but i struggle with the Controls - to really have fun playing that i would need a HOTAS setup which i am still lacking.

If you develop a PvP game you need to understand that PvP-Players are your worst enemy!
That PvP-Players are their own worst enemy!
Tat Wolves follow Sheep and you have to nurture Sheep to have a big Population of Wolves and then exploit the hell out of the Wolves - bcs the Wolves need the Sheep while the Sheep do not need the Wolves - they have to come where the Sheep graze bcs Wolves DO NOT LIKE FIGHT Wolves - they LIKE TO FEAST on Sheep!!!

That is the truth of PvP!

I think the reason why there are so many community driven tournaments and leagues are because wolves like to fight wolves. People that are competitive minded want to play against other competitive players! If we had the population for a sheep vs sheep queue and a wolves vs wolves queue I'd 100% support it.

[Mudhutwarrior]

All I know is even though I should see my copy of F04 in the next day or two after reading the OP's post I will have to check in regularly.

Thanks for the pep talk bub. Sometimes its good to know when your getting under someones skin so you can keep doing it.

[Random Carnage]

Dear OP.

Great plan. Just finished the DL.

If too many people actually listen to you, you'll not have many left to play your mech skinned FPS with.

I hope you have a good book to fill in those wait times between games, and I hope you take your own advice when the games population finds you getting dropped with T1's.

[Ted Wayz]

pwnface, on 10 November 2015 - 04:31 PM, said:

Except PGI literally listens to the biggest whiners. Why do you think "ghost range" lasers are no longer being pushed into production? You think PGI came to their senses on their own? It was literally a butt-load of players complaining and saying it was bad mechanic. So I hate to say it, but empirically speaking, the loudest whiners are the ones getting changes pushed through.

This is how you can judge PGIs ideas. The "We are not so sure about this one" is easily overturned. The "We screwed up but see if it flies" takes a little more effort. But the "We know better than you" ideas? Better chance of seeing God than seeing these overturned.

[oldradagast]

L3mming2, on 10 November 2015 - 05:10 PM, said:

so whats your idea to solve the long range perfect accuracy high damage alphas, thats so obvious and where everyone agrees upon its the right thing to do?

becaus, wile it might have been a convoluted and ridiculus mechanic, it did work on the pts, the usual gauss+laser vomit was not nearly as effective as it is on the life server...

We've already been over this: cone of fire or fix convergence. That makes infinitely more sense than illogical lunacy like "ghost range."'

One has to separate mechanics from effect. Did "ghost range" increase TTK and (marginally) reduce laser boating? Sure it did - but so would cutting all weapon damage in half and adding extra damage penalties on top of lasers. That doesn't mean either mechanic is a GOOD one. Same with the arguments of "it's different, so it is good." Randomly assigning a damage multiplier to all weapons based on the phase of the moon would also be different and "shake things up," but it would still be a stupid and illogical mechanic.

So much Stockholm Syndrome on the PTS... people so used to trash that they'll accept any new, nutty idea - as if the game needs more of them - just to get a brief rush of games that are different before the new pinpoint, long-range meta mechs take over and lock things down once again. Until the fundamental issues are addressed in a logical and consistent fashion, the game will continue to lurch around, piling up bad mechanics, and will never achieve reasonable balance.

[oldradagast]

DaZur, on 10 November 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

Let's flip this premise...

So you infer that if I repeatedly spammed the forums with threads proclaiming PGI has been right all along, state it as a matter of fact and repeat it enough times to be annoying (A billion if I'm correct) that it's automatically inherits the status of being a valid and salient point?

Hell, If I'd known that I would have started grousing years ago...

You have the cart before the horse, in that you're assuming that if a concept is repeated often, it therefore must be wrong and annoying.

The number of times a topic is stated has nothing to do with its validity. Facts are facts. Facts such as "ghost range" being a illogical poorly thought out mechanic that doesn't really fix the game's core problems, or how the voting system reduces game variety. The number of times they are said does not change the accuracy of the statement. What DOES change, if all goes well, is the response from PGI. If you repeat the facts often enough and loud enough, your words sometimes get through the haze around their island and they listen... as demonstrated by the recent removal of the "ghost range" idiocy from their rebalancing plans.

To address your example, repeating "PGI is great" does not make it true - only their actions can do that - but repeating it often also does NOT make it a "whine" if it is true. Again, facts are still facts, if stated once or a one hundred times.

Edited by oldradagast, 10 November 2015 - 05:39 PM.

[L3mming2]

oldradagast, on 10 November 2015 - 05:33 PM, said:

We've already been over this: cone of fire or fix convergence. That makes infinitely more sense than illogical lunacy like "ghost range."'

One has to separate mechanics from effect. Did "ghost range" increase TTK and (marginally) reduce laser boating? Sure it did - but so would cutting all weapon damage in half and adding extra damage penalties on top of lasers. That doesn't mean either mechanic is a GOOD one. Same with the arguments of "it's different, so it is good." Randomly assigning a damage multiplier to all weapons based on the phase of the moon would also be different and "shake things up," but it would still be a stupid and illogical mechanic.

So much Stockholm Syndrome on the PTS... people so used to trash that they'll accept any new, nutty idea - as if the game needs more of them - just to get a brief rush of games that are different before the new pinpoint, long-range meta mechs take over and lock things down once again. Until the fundamental issues are addressed in a logical and consistent fashion, the game will continue to lurch around, piling up bad mechanics, and will never achieve reasonable balance.

and what if u hate convergence (ore rng cone), i now "everyone" seems to think its THE solution, but some obvious problems with it;

1 if u have a mech with close clustered ct weapons u dont need convergence, on the other side if u have arm mounted weapons like a KGC you are screwed without it... so the only thing this will do is make mechs with good CT hardpoints meta..

example; meet your new post convergence meta over loard http://mwo.smurfy-ne...46bd7ed55d0954e

2 as they have said (pgi) multiple times now, convergence will be very hard to inplement (read we will have to (in my opinion waste) spend large amounts of resorces to get it done))

3 as they heve said (pgi) having convergence will screw with hit reg ... is it realy a good idea to keep asking for a mechanic that will screw over hit reg even more than it currently is... ore would you prefer every weapon had the same wonky hit detection the srm's currently have? just mabby this has something to do with them not being pin point...

[DaZur]

Random Carnage, on 10 November 2015 - 05:30 PM, said:

Dear OP.

Great plan. Just finished the DL.

If too many people actually listen to you, you'll not have many left to play your mech skinned FPS with.

I hope you have a good book to fill in those wait times between games, and I hope you take your own advice when the games population finds you getting dropped with T1's.

LOL!

The first rule of a F2P game is the accept attrition... You are absolutely right, a F2P game that can't weather attrition should die on the vine.

While I may be wrong, I think you are over estimating the segment of this player base that is threatening to take their toys and go play elsewhere.

IMHO it's a good thing to have other diversions and forms of entertainment... Otherwise it become pedantic and mundane. I hope it's a wonderful game.

But when the gloss wears off and it too becomes mired in repetition... I'm sure you like many other players will be back.

FWIW... I was dropping against T1s before you even collected your cadet bonuses. I ain't a'scared of'm.

Edited by DaZur, 10 November 2015 - 05:47 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

DaZur, on 10 November 2015 - 05:02 PM, said:

My pretty Seahorse got pushed back to 2017!!!

hey don't mess with us Mer-Bronies!

[Random Carnage]

I certainly don't hate the game. Not at all. Just frustrated with what it's become.

As you say, time to do something else. If the game changes for the better, I'll probably be back.

I think you may overestimate the population base. MWO can't afford to lose even a few hundred active players.