76 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

The disparity between lights and the heavies needs to be closed significantly in regards to C-bill acquisition. I have to work for every C-bill in a light to where in a heavy I can earn them practically sleeping.

This is not addressed in the new balance either on the PTS. I actually lost even more C-bills as a light pilot on that one.

This seriously needs to be addressed. The difference between the gain is night and day. Yet another reason the light queue is below 10%

[El Bandito]

Darian DelFord, on 01 November 2015 - 07:14 PM, said:

The disparity between lights and the heavies needs to be closed significantly in regards to C-bill acquisition. I have to work for every C-bill in a light to where in a heavy I can earn them practically sleeping.

This is not addressed in the new balance either on the PTS. I actually lost even more C-bills as a light pilot on that one.

This seriously needs to be addressed. The difference between the gain is night and day. Yet another reason the light queue is below 10%

I agree with more role oriented rewards, such as scouting, or capping. However, I doubt the Light queue will increase much, out side of Conquest, even if rewards are increased. People love two-shotting the enemies they face.

Also, I hate Cheetos.

[Darian DelFord]

El Bandito, on 01 November 2015 - 08:17 PM, said:

I agree with more role oriented rewards, such as scouting, or capping. However, I doubt the Light queue will increase much, out side of Conquest, even if rewards are increased. People love two-shotting the enemies they face.

Also, I hate Cheetos.

True but not all lights are scouts. The Jenner's are not for sure. However the C-Bill Disparity is enormous. Just spent an hour in my Catapult and made what I made in 3 hours in my Jenner D.

[Xetelian]

Lights are the underdogs in this game. 5%-10% queue all the time and deadly only to the absolute lowest of assaults.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I'm not really much of a light pilot, if anything I only really do good in the fire support lights like Kit Fox and 2ERLL Ravens, its true you have to work quite a bit more to pump out the same damage that a heavier mech can deal. Seeing as most of the money you earn comes from damage and killing that really cuts into the cbills. Tack on that only heavies and mediums get brawling awards and theres another cut.

Maybe a reward could be thrown in for killing mechs (or kill most damage dealt) to enemy mechs that were heavier than you. That way light mechs would make more money and even medium mechs would earn more unless they were just streak boating mediums hunting down lights. Heavies would focus a little more on killing assault mechs. Assault mechs would still be sad though. Poor things move so slow and can be outclassed by a heavy mech in firepower oftentimes.

[adamts01]

I'm primarily a light pilot. It's a thankless job and there's not much $ in it. Lately the assault que is almost as anemic. There really aren't many reasons to not take a heavy. This sensor thing might help, plus some quirks that don't just have to do with damage (sensors, ECM, active probe, hill climb, jumping, target acquisition, extended lock holding for spotters.) and assaults need to be able to tank. Wait times don't seem to noticeably decrease for me in lights, they should give a cbill bonus which increases the more deprived a weight class is of players.

[Maxx Blue]

I've been working on mastering my urbies this week. It has been...painful. Being an urbie in a world of Cheetos hurts. That aside, there is certainly a noticeable difference in the raw amount of damage I can do, even in my 'good' games compared to a heavy or even a decent medium. I was eyeing my panthers before this event, but now I think they will keep collecting dust for a while longer. Lights are, for me anyway, the worst grind in both XP and raising money. The only reason I'm sticking with the urbs is because the 360 turn is fun.

[adamts01]

The other thing about this game, it's all about killing the other team. If spotting becomes just as rewarding we'll have too many lights just looking at targets instead if shooting, because it's easy.

As for chasing off lights, it would be cool of there was a new bonus to doing damage to a light if it leaves the proximity of your group afterwards. In my streak boats I get the kills but in my cheetah I do a fraction of the damage I would compared to if I were in the brawl and don't make $.

[Zordicron]

PGI needs to fix alpha strikes to make lights viable.

IF they make a light hard to kill, like a cheeto, people come here and RAGE about it.
If they don't make them hard to kill, then its junk mech.

You can see this disparity clearly in the variation of effectiveness per chassis we have now, and in most forum threads about the subject.

IMO, if people couldn't one shot a Jenner in the CT, maybe lights wouldn't have it so bad. If maps were big enough to require scouting so the assaults knew where to go, lights might not have it so bad.

As it is, moneywise, run a cheeto, make bank. FS9 is still a solid second place(ECM) if you aren;t clammer scum. I mean, everyone else is. I saw one commando and one spider tonight. Two ravens(early) and an adder. thats it, in 20 some odd matches. Everything else was cheetos and some FS9's. Can;t beatem', joinem'.

[Airu]

I pilot lights 99% of the time (90% spiders out of those), and I don't know what they came up in pts, but there are no lights that play to scout (period)
Most ppl like me play them cause they like speed or being sneaky, plus there is a great satisfaction in taking down mechs more than twice heavier than you. PGI don't understand, that most people who play lights don't give a **** about information warfare quirks and such, what lights need is mobility quirks and unnerfed JJs IMO.
Don't know about cbill rewards difference compared to other classes, I make 130-200k on a win.

Edited by Airu, 01 November 2015 - 09:45 PM.

[JediPanther]

I do lights as well. Mostly the jenner and locust because I like the 150+ speed. Anything under 130 is slow to me. To be able to do 300 or more damage a match you need to hit-and-run a lot with as little as face time as possible which means you'll probably have pulse lasers or srms you can blind fire. Cheeto is top dog with fire starter second due to their 30 spl alpha in two seconds cool down if they have elite and cool down module 5. Six seconds and you can kill almost any thing.

To run a light you really need to have situational awareness and learn when is the best time to attack vs run away to cover. A light has the option of doing the monty python when it suddenly finds four of the enemy around a corner. A heavy just has the option of retreating backwards while shooting before it gets destroyed. I find the hardest mech to fight in a light is another light. The more experienced light pilots are the truly frightening ones because they know how to really put up a fight. You end up either shot to pieces or missing a leg if you win against another light.

[Void Angel]

The key is to reward people for noncombat spotting in a light - which is something I recall them talking about. As long as it doesn't completely outstrip combat, you're not going to see too many players decline battle in favor of watching the fight go on - that's not so much fun, and if you can do either-or, most folks will just do what seems best at the time.

The problem with Lights right now, from a design standpoint (as far as I understand design) is that the risk-reward ratio is off. Especially in a non-ECM Light, scouting/harassment is very hard for little return. You have to have all the movement skills - and even most of the marksmanship - of the Arctic Cheetah that stood in back of the Heavies all match until the engagement turned into a corner brawl. But your risk is much greater, since you're by necessity isolated to some degree; an enemy who looks over and sees you while he's in cover from your team will blaze away with gleeful abandon, and there are often covered routes by which enemy Lights and asinine jackasses totally skill-dependent StreakCrows can chase after you with little interference from your team. Recon requires a different mix of skills than combat, but the risk is at least as much - while the rewards are lacking.

So the ideal solution is to equalize the rewards enough that players will not feel like they're risking armor that will yield much greater returns in close combat - give them enough rewards for scouting that they can justify the time and risk. If PGI can do that, you should see Light pilots shifting between recon and combat as appropriate - instead of just hanging back and refusing to do their job. =)

[Clit Beastwood]

Get better and your earnings go up. Light earnings are fine.

Source: earning plenty in urbies and locusts all night.

Edited by Fierostetz, 01 November 2015 - 10:17 PM.

[Void Angel]

PS: I'm a light pilot myself, in case the (mostly) humorous venom I directed at Skillcrows left anyone in doubt. And while I know lots of people view lights as a pure combat platform, that really is the wrong way to look at them.

Lights are the only chassis that can scout - whether you're a Panther/Wolfhound outrider, or a longer-ranging Spider. Even if we're not over the river, through the woods, and halfway to Grandmother's house looking at the back of the enemy team, it falls to us to get and relay information to the team. There are right and wrong ways to do this, of course (you always want to minimize risk,) but the team needs to know where the enemy is, and Lights (or the equivalent fast medium, e.g. Cicadas) are the only ones who can. Just like the Heavies and Assaults need to share damage so that Lights and Mediums can fight, Lights and fast Mediums need to provide vital recon to the team.

That doesn't mean you shed all your armor peeking at enemies who've spotted you, and it certainly doesn't mean that you don't fight - I earned my Ace of Spades in a Spider. But I've found that my win/loss ratio and my KDR seems to go up when I shift in and out of the combat and recon roles.

[Garandos]

Or you Are just bad with lights?

Dont get me wrong, personaly i suck with Assaults ans heavys.
I earn less in both then in lights.

But that hardly makes them worse than lights.

I dare to say its more a question of how good someone is with the different playstyles then a question of hard coded viability

[DivineEvil]

Lights cannot be equated in earnings. Lights represent higher tonnage-efficiency ratio, and the game overall responds to mech's weight in consideration for expected performance. A Light mech worth less to purchase and to maximize, compared to an Assault, which can cost you double the funds to keep it roughly on additional 50% of the potential performance.

It's all comes to your preferences and skills. A skilled Light pilot can earn just as much as the average assault pilot. It might require taking risks and efforts, but it's something you have to expect while riding a younger horse. It's not about that Lights are inferior by default, but they operate on significantly different planes, and many Light mech pilots are ignoring even present scouting/spotting objectives and rush into the fight on the get-go.

Info-Warfare first has to be properly reworked, before adressing the actualy rewards. Keep looking forward to it.

[STEF_]

When a light is released and light que gets a buff, most of ppl I see in lights don't understand how to use them, and don't understand what their strenghs are.
With normal que, 10%-ish, things are a little better.
So, yes, it's simply because most of the people suck when piloting a thing with speed > 120-130 kph, and don't know where to go and what to do.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 01 November 2015 - 11:17 PM.

[Spheroid]

Earnings are fine. I have been pulling in over 200k per match all night with Artic Cheetahs using premium. The invasion variant guys must be rolling in cash.

Edited by Spheroid, 01 November 2015 - 11:16 PM.

[STEF_]

Xetelian, on 01 November 2015 - 08:45 PM, said:

Lights are the underdogs in this game. 5%-10% queue all the time and deadly only to the absolute lowest of assaults.

lolled hard reading this

Keep rolling bra...

[DarthHias]

DivineEvil, on 01 November 2015 - 11:10 PM, said:

Lights cannot be equated in earnings. Lights represent higher tonnage-efficiency ratio, and the game overall responds to mech's weight in consideration for expected performance. A Light mech worth less to purchase and to maximize, compared to an Assault, which can cost you double the funds to keep it roughly on additional 50% of the potential performance.

It's all comes to your preferences and skills. A skilled Light pilot can earn just as much as the average assault pilot. It might require taking risks and efforts, but it's something you have to expect while riding a younger horse. It's not about that Lights are inferior by default, but they operate on significantly different planes, and many Light mech pilots are ignoring even present scouting/spotting objectives and rush into the fight on the get-go.

Info-Warfare first has to be properly reworked, before adressing the actualy rewards. Keep looking forward to it.

The Mech in my stable that has cost me the most C-Bills is my Locust 1E. After Engine Upgrades and Modules it sits way above 30 million C-Bills.