402 replies to this topic

[SourKraut]

Please PGI either completely rework the skill tree to have more relevant skills or just leave it as is until it can be fully redone...nerfing the percentages really isn't a "re-balance" measure, its just making every mech more awkward, slower and less agile.

Also could you please turn the huge structure bonuses into armor bonuses so the mechs you are trying to give extra protection to will actually have extra protection

Edited by SourKraut, 13 November 2015 - 09:37 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

SourKraut, on 13 November 2015 - 09:28 PM, said:

Please PGI either completely rework the skill tree to have more relevant skills or just leave it as is until it can be fully redone...nerfing the percentages really isn't a "re-balance" measure, its just making every mech more awkward, slower and less agile

That is sort of the point. 'Mechs in general aren't supposed to be crazy agile. Everything could stand to be less agile, and the heaver 'Mechs could stand to be even less agile relative to Lights and some Mediums.

[Sereglach]

Feedback right off the start from the quirks list:

1. No flamer fix makes me a very sad and angered pyro. Wallet is still shut for the foreseeable future (EDIT: Ok, PGI, after venting frustrations and cooling down I'll come to a compromise with you . . . if I can get SOME SORT OF ACKNOWLEDGEMENT that the Flamer Fix is being worked on before the end of the month I'll buy a Rifleman Package with Hero as a sign of good faith . . . because overall lots of good things are happening for balance, I'm just still really peeved that Flamers aren't one of them, despite begging and pleading for 3+ years now.) until that weapon gets the fix it was promised, by PGI, literally 2 years ago now when the Firestarter was announced. Seriously, even Mcgral18 showed how some simple XML changes would make the weapon at least somewhat viable, even if not in an ideal place.

2. Very disappointed to still see some huge quirks in there. At least it seems like most of the "Super Quirks" are dead, but there are still some big weapon quirks in there.

3. Just remove all weapon-specific quirks. They virtually pigeonhole people into specific builds. Granted, some of the specific quirks left behind are 5-10% . . . but again, at that point just get rid of them and merge them into the generic quirk . . . or just completely do away with them.

4. The ECM core mechanic changes better still be staying in the build. I know you want to wait on most of the IW stuff . . . but those ECM changes better still be there. I'll be enraged if they aren't.

5. Speaking of IW, it's nice to see that PGI is still working on this and wants to get it into a premier spot before releasing it. I want to see it turn out well. IW should be a core part of the game. However, I personally feel like what you had on PTS 3 was in a really good spot to release and then build upon it from there. It doesn't feel like it should be left aside from implementation until the final refinements are complete.

6. AC/2 Heat gen should probably still be lowered to .6 instead of just .8 because the .8 was pretty good, but still left the AC/2 as a very heat intensive weapon, when it's supposed to be one of the coolest running weapons in Battletech.

7. Missile changes overall are great . . . but you need to add heat scale to LRM/5s to prevent the mass LRM/5 spam that can overwhelm AMS systems, are more accurate, and more rapid-fire than any other LRM system. Again, the current changes are great but they will exacerbate the use of LRM/5s even more than they are now.

8. Thank you for keeping the mech efficiency changes in place. DO NOT BUDGE ON THESE! EDIT: Just noticed that the heat efficiencies are not carrying over. That actually makes me rather annoyed.

9. I still stand by the concept of having 1 maximum range between the IS and Clan versions of lasers (ER and Pulse) and then use the Optimal Range, heat, damage, etc. to provide balance and flavor between the two. If Clan lasers have an Optimal Range that's 75% of the maximum range then that provides a very distinct advantage, for example. They might still be able to poke at each other at the same long ranges, but Clans will still do more damage and be more "efficient" so to speak.

Edited by Sereglach, 15 November 2015 - 02:57 PM.

[Blood Skar]

Gorgo7, on 13 November 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

I think the models will determine more who is maneuverable and who is not as opposed to all having the same performance after mastery. I'm in favor of a slightly tankier game with exceptions by mech model and type..

i'm sorry....but 17.5% reductions to anything is too much. I can see twist speeds being complained about bitterly when this goes on the PTS. I think its what i said - for steam release.

Also like i said why do they go for such big % reductions all the time? Why not incremental?

Edited by Blood Skar, 13 November 2015 - 09:41 PM.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Woohoo! Laser Lock On is dead! If I knew a midget, I would pay him to sing Ding Dong The Witch is Dead.

I'm disappointed to see the gauss cooldown nerf is still there... but I've started replacing Gauss rifles with 2x AC5s instead on a lot of my chassis... and actually like it better... so... I can live with it now n.n

Also... holy crap, that SRM spread is gonna be murder! My 6 SRM6 Jenner IIC is gonna be a MONSTER if these values actually carry over!

Otherwise... I'm optimistic for PTS4 n.n Everything sounds reasonable, and looks good. I hope to see more from Information Warfare in the future, but it's a good start!

Thank you for listening to the community. <3

[-Skyrider-]

love the way this PTS is looking. The only thing that I don't like is the speed tweak reduction. 10% to 7.5%. It might not seem like much but this is the one people will care most about and might want to be relooked at. Bump it back up to 10%. For the direwolf's sake.

[Mcgral18]

That's right...6.25s Gauss recycle is a tad excessive. I wouldn't mind a 5.5s total, but now it's 5.5s+0.75s

[SourKraut]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 November 2015 - 09:30 PM, said:

That is sort of the point. 'Mechs in general aren't supposed to be crazy agile. Everything could stand to be less agile, and the heaver 'Mechs could stand to be even less agile relative to Lights and some Mediums.

but its kind of not the point, it makes every mech in every weight class more vulnerable (greater vulnerability will not decrease TTK, it will just increase it) ...the slower you move now the greater the effect will be. People have been asking for the game to be slowed down however I don't think they mean literally slowed down. Rebalancing should make the game "better" not unilaterally worse and nerfing the skill tree without reworking it just makes the game unilaterally worse for everyone.

Edited by SourKraut, 13 November 2015 - 09:56 PM.

[Gorgo7]

Check out the BIG Acc/Dec bonuses and twist bonuses for Wolverines for example.
They will outrank the old system by a fair margin.
Some mechs will do very well while others become tankier. In the end the spread will be greater than it is now which will probably bode well for variety among the mechs.

[Y E O N N E]

SourKraut, on 13 November 2015 - 09:48 PM, said:

but its kind of not the point, it makes every mech in every weight class more vulnerable (greater vulnerability will not decrease TTC, it will just increase it) ...the slower you move now the greater the effect will be. People have been asking for the game to be slowed down however I don't think they mean literally slowed down. Rebalancing should make the game "better" not unilaterally worse and nerfing the skill tree without reworking it just makes the game unilaterally worse for everyone.

But it is still the point (not that it matters if you look at those accel/decel/turn/twist quirks).

TTK is more complex than you are making it. Sure, it will decrease TTK on big 'Mechs fighting big 'Mechs, but it will increase TTK on big 'Mechs fighting small 'Mechs. In addition, TTK is affected by weapon stats. Missiles will offer faster TTK than they have before , lasers slower due to loss of range. Then there are all those structure and armor bonuses. If the more deliberate movement is an issue, we can fix it by tweaking any of the above (and, actually, a lot of weapons really are too good, but a lot are also shite).

And, believe it or not, the reduced 'Mech agility was generally praised as far as I could tell. So, yes, people want it both slower-paced and literally slower.

I do agree that the skill tree needs a rework. It's a bad tree because it punishes new players against experienced players. Tree shouldn't provide straight bonuses, it should specialize your 'Mech by increasing the utility some traits at the expense of others. Ditto for modules.

[Navid A1]

Clan quirks (scheduled for adjustments on monday) may prove otherwise....

but until then with the upcoming mech efficiency nerfs (heat & agility):

RIP Mist Lynx
RIP Kit fox
RIP Adder

[Commander A9]

Messing with Clan lasers in a bad way again...

And our ability to cool our mechs.

Thanks for once again nerfing mechs we paid real money for. :/

[Gas Guzzler]

Navid A1, on 13 November 2015 - 09:56 PM, said:

Clan quirks (scheduled for adjustments on monday) may prove otherwise....

but until then with the upcoming mech efficiency nerfs (heat & agility):

RIP Mist Lynx
RIP Kit fox
RIP Adder

IIRC there are no heat efficiency nerfs.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 13 November 2015 - 10:02 PM.

[Kira Onime]

Who let Paul throw darts at the quirks board again?

Commander A9, on 13 November 2015 - 09:59 PM, said:

Messing with Clan lasers in a bad way again...

And our ability to cool our mechs.

Thanks for once again nerfing mechs we paid real money for. :/

PVP game. Balance changes are gona happen.
You using the "i paying money" as a shield for nerfs/buiffs makes you look like a complete fool.

[Y E O N N E]

Commander A9, on 13 November 2015 - 09:59 PM, said:

Messing with Clan lasers in a bad way again...

And our ability to cool our mechs.

Thanks for once again nerfing mechs we paid real money for. :/

You aren't paying for an "I win" button, you are paying to use a particular object in the game with no qualification.

[Gas Guzzler]

Kira Onime, on 13 November 2015 - 10:03 PM, said:

Who let Paul throw darts at the quirks board again?

I don't see a lot wrong with them. Glad they dialed the DPS back a little on some.

[Chuanhao]

The PTS campaign started off with a novel framework.

I applaud the effort that has been put into it, both by the developers and the people that played.

That certain mechanics are not accepted does not mean a wasted effort.

I am glad we have come through in terms of the testing and have a conclusion.

That means we have prepared as much as we can, new maps, UI 3.0, Tutorial, VOIP, PTS, for Steam.

With all mechs there will be winners and losers. Hopefully, the audience will be more creative and we will see less of Thunderbolts and Stalkers.

With this conclusion of STEAM prep, let's now move on with development in the other areas. More game modes, Solaris. Time to invest effort back into the core mechanics.

Play on.

[Night Thastus]

My god...

SRM buffs?
AC/2 buffs?


THE NEW META HAS ARISEN. IT IS GLORIOUS.

My Maddog approves of these buffs:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...051aadedf

Up to 6 SRM-2's with no ghost heat? Check.
Buffed SRM speed to 400 M/s? Check.
Reduced spread of SRM's by nearly half for SRM-2's? Check.

Edited by Night Thastus, 13 November 2015 - 10:17 PM.

[Surn]

MWO Headline: Clanners want more OP... Get it!

[SourKraut]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 November 2015 - 09:54 PM, said:

But it is still the point (not that it matters if you look at those accel/decel/turn/twist quirks).

TTK is more complex than you are making it. Sure, it will decrease TTK on big 'Mechs fighting big 'Mechs, but it will increase TTK on big 'Mechs fighting small 'Mechs. In addition, TTK is affected by weapon stats. Missiles will offer faster TTK than they have before , lasers slower due to loss of range. Then there are all those structure and armor bonuses. If the more deliberate movement is an issue, we can fix it by tweaking any of the above (and, actually, a lot of weapons really are too good, but a lot are also shite).

And, believe it or not, the reduced 'Mech agility was generally praised as far as I could tell. So, yes, people want it both slower-paced and literally slower.

I do agree that the skill tree needs a rework. It's a bad tree because it punishes new players against experienced players. Tree shouldn't provide straight bonuses, it should specialize your 'Mech by increasing the utility some traits at the expense of others. Ditto for modules.

thats the thing about opinions, everyone's is different. My experiences with the game are not any greater than anyone elses but I just cant see how making every mech slower, less able to torso twist and twist slower, slower to stop, slower to speed up and all the other associated reductions will somehow improve the time it takes to be killed. think about the extremes, like the dire wolf, it really doesn't need to be slower or less maneuverable, that isn't its strong point or even an issue as it is now...then look at the arctic cheetah, now people have even more incentive to run cheetahs over any other clan light as the other slower mechs will be even more slow. Does anyone really need more incentive to run cheetahs?

Most of the comments I have read from PTS round 3 did not praise skill tree nerfs. Most of the comments I have read question the nerfs or, like I have stated, are asking for a complete skill tree re-work rather than a reduction of th one we currently have. Reducing the percentages (by crazy amounts in some cases) is just another band aid that, in the wake of a much sooner than anticipated announced steam launch, isn't really improving anything (well not in my opinion anyhow).